Coyotes Concept

[steiny_ramone]

And all that stuff about what age a lot of us are and use paint in the other thread has fallen on deaf ears, apparently.

[Lumbergh]

Guys get a god damn life i just started this and you are making fun of all i do. Just get a f ing life. im 16 YEARS OLD

we tried to help you, but all you've done is pushed our cc away, instead of actually taking what we say and fixing it. We want to help, but you're not making it easy on yourself.

[Stampman]

As I said in the other one--at least consider the C&C --reject it if you wish--but at least know WHY you're rejecting it.

[VitaminD]

Guys get a god damn life i just started this and you are making fun of all i do. Just get a f ing life. im 16 YEARS OLD

Oh, that's not gonna fly, junior. If you're gonna pull the whiny 16-year-old crap, don't come around here. There are plenty of people your age (and younger) who acquit themselves better than some of the adults. You chose to come here to this adult community, don't play the age card when people don't think your work is the second coming of Da Vinci.

Some advice from the heart here: back away from the computer, take a deep breath and count to ten. When you're done that, re-read all of the C&C from each of your first 3 concepts. Read them objectively, and try not to take what people say as an indictment of you as a person - because no one is doing that.

Honestly, I'm refraining from further critiques until you demonstrate that you've actually read what's been said already and have tried to implement some of the ideas. What more can I say that hasn't been said? Yes, it's sloppy. Yes, there are massive continuity errors (mismatched colors, striping that changes from the front to the back). Yes, the designs aren't original (recoloring another team's template). Yes, these concepts look rushed.

But the reason people are starting to ride you is because you've started with a raft of excuses instead of taking to heart the objective advice contained in the C&C. Age is no excuse; talent designers post here who are younger than you. MSPaint is no excuse; I'll be happy to show you what can be done in MSPaint... when you work diligently, sweat every minor detail, and put some genuine effort into your work. The patsox allusion is as simple as can be - you're acting just like him, churning out shoddy, sloppy work then ignoring the critiques you're seeking and getting all worked up over them.

So... this is the last post you're getting out of me for a while. Believe me, I like evaluating concepts here, and I think my C&C goes a little beyond "THAT SUCKS!" or "UR TEH roxxor!!!1!1!!oneoneone!!1!". But it just isn't worth my time to keep repeating myself over and over again if you're not going to listen. I'm willing to bet my next paycheck I could reliably predict what your concept for any NHL team would look like based on what you've posted so far. Moreover, responding to this stuff only moves your work to the top of the first page, while keeping well-executed, clean designs from hardworking designers of all abilities from being seen.

You evidently found the templates, so the email you sent me is thus answered. Good luck.

[JJWAY]

I didnt know the heirarchy around here.

First off the email i sent you(Vitamin D) was about a different template other than i used. second... I wasnt expecting to be revered as the best and a secondcoming of DaVinci. Just some damn respect. It was my first few Im sure in a few months i can look back at these concepts and laugh but I tried. This isnt anyones job to make these ...its something for fun. I dont appreciate being compared to someone who im unaware of who is. Im not trying to insult anyone but i told you guys to get a life because you make it seem like its your job to say this is bad or it sucks. Maybe more people can be like the people who give some positive light on a bad concept rather than fun of one of my signatures. If you take my 3 concepts and line them up next to eachother you see some improvements and creativity. I at least tried to re color a logo rather than cut and paste.

Some of you have alot of growing up to do.

[Lumbergh]

I didnt know the heirarchy around here.

First off the email i sent you(Vitamin D) was about a different template other than i used. second... I wasnt expecting to be revered as the best and a secondcoming of DaVinci. Just some damn respect. It was my first few Im sure in a few months i can look back at these concepts and laugh but I tried. This isnt anyones job to make these ...its something for fun. I dont appreciate being compared to someone who im unaware of who is. Im not trying to insult anyone but i told you guys to get a life because you make it seem like its your job to say this is bad or it sucks. Maybe more people can be like the people who give some positive light on a bad concept rather than fun of one of my signatures. If you take my 3 concepts and line them up next to eachother you see some improvements and creativity. I at least tried to re color a logo rather than cut and paste.

Some of you have alot of growing up to do.

Are you sure you're not Patsox? I mean really, really think hard here, are you sure???

[Chief.]

I didnt know the heirarchy around here.

First off the email i sent you(Vitamin D) was about a different template other than i used. second... I wasnt expecting to be revered as the best and a secondcoming of DaVinci. Just some damn respect. It was my first few Im sure in a few months i can look back at these concepts and laugh but I tried. This isnt anyones job to make these ...its something for fun. I dont appreciate being compared to someone who im unaware of who is. Im not trying to insult anyone but i told you guys to get a life because you make it seem like its your job to say this is bad or it sucks. Maybe more people can be like the people who give some positive light on a bad concept rather than fun of one of my signatures. If you take my 3 concepts and line them up next to eachother you see some improvements and creativity. I at least tried to re color a logo rather than cut and paste.

Some of you have alot of growing up to do.

1. We don't care how old you are. At 16, you should be old enough to read and apply our advice.

2. Nobody expects greatness from every concept, but it should be obvious to you that your work is sloppy and you're not taking the time to create a decent concept.

3. Yes, these are for fun in your case, but what do you expect? Do you think everyone's going to say it's excellent so they don't hurt your feelings?

4. It's not our "job" to judge your work, but if you post it, you will get comments and honest critique, which you seem to have trouble dealing with.

5. I'm sorry, but your work hasn't improved. In your Capitals concept you completely butchered the logo in the recoloring process and the colors don't match. Look at it for yourself and tell me I'm wrong.

I'm not making fun of you, that's not me. I'm trying to help buy breaking down why you're getting the responses you're getting. For a look of what you can truly accomplish with MS Paint, take a look at the latest Hawks logo in the concepts section and start from scratch.

[LMU]

Are you sure you're not Patsox? I mean really, really think hard here, are you sure???

That wouldn't surprise me at all. Seems like we might have a talentless protege of Tom O'Grady running amuck.

Now, time for the tall guy to hop on the soapbox.

--------------------------------------------------------

From when I first joined here two years ago to now, I've noticed two changes: an increase of members in their teenage years and a steady decrease in the quality of work posted for review. The teenage group can be divided into two camps: those with personal pride who wish to improve themselves, and those who crank out as much garbage as possible, post it thinking that it's actually worthy of peer review, and refusing to heed the advice that they claim to ask for. Members such as Against All Odds when he first came here, miltonandlumbergh, and LEWJ have all dramatically increased their design skills while members of this forum, producing stuff that I would actually purchase at a sports store, while others, like Patsox and a lot of recent newcomers, post sloppy, uninspired garbage that really has no value to anything.

Just like how you wouldn't expect to get a passing grade on an essay written in a half-hour after a night of heavy drinking, you shouldn't expect to get steller reviews on a choppy concept with stray lines, heavily pixelated logos slapped on, and a lack of crucial design aspects such as piping or stripe design.

One solution to this was stated in a recolor thread, in which a member that escapes my mind said "just because you want to see what something looks like doesn't mean that you have to post it." It seems like all too often, people take up space on the board posting something that I honestly don't see the point of, just because they were curious. Before posting, one needs to ask themselves if what they want to post is actually something that they want to improve upon, or just some quick waste of time that will never be looked upon again.

Also, if you can actually pick out sloppyness, then don't post. Just like the essay example, you have to first critique your own work just as you would proofread an essay before you even consider putting it up for peer review, because how valuable can peer critiquing possibly be if instead of improving, people have to tell you to bring your work up to average.

So much critiquing has been spent on these subpar concepts that many senior members refuse to even post their work anymore. Just as ColeDMD said, how screwed up is it when he posts a clean concept up for review, but most of the board's attention is thrown at these... I hate to say it... punk kids who post unrefined crap and then get hostile when people tell them that their 5 minute slopjob looks like it took 5 minutes? Hell, some of the senior members even had to make their own board to get quality critiquing.

The bottom line is that the quality of what you post is a direct reflection on yourself, so if you post crap, then you won't be respected on here, and if you actually post clean work, then you will get respect.

And, to conclude, age is no excuse, and if you can't manage to produce quality work in Paint, then download either inkscape or some other freeware program. Simple as that.

/soapbox

[-(dp)-]

I didnt know the heirarchy around here.

First off the email i sent you(Vitamin D) was about a different template other than i used. second... I wasnt expecting to be revered as the best and a secondcoming of DaVinci. Just some damn respect. It was my first few Im sure in a few months i can look back at these concepts and laugh but I tried. This isnt anyones job to make these ...its something for fun. I dont appreciate being compared to someone who im unaware of who is. Im not trying to insult anyone but i told you guys to get a life because you make it seem like its your job to say this is bad or it sucks. Maybe more people can be like the people who give some positive light on a bad concept rather than fun of one of my signatures. If you take my 3 concepts and line them up next to eachother you see some improvements and creativity. I at least tried to re color a logo rather than cut and paste.

Some of you have alot of growing up to do.

C+C can help you a lot, believe me. I am also 16, I turned 16 only a few days ago, that is definitely no excuse. Peoples comments have helped me a lot. The first concept I did started with nothing but bad comments, but I kept working at it a little bit all the time. By the time I got towards the end, it was mostly good comments. Most people here know what they are talking about, so listen to them. People are only trying to help. If you want respect, put some time into your concepts, you won't gain respect by posting rushed work. A few good concepts are better than a lot of hurried ones.

[maz]

Alright, I'll try.

Ive been on this board for a year. I was 12 here when I started. I posted my first concepts when I was 12. Youre 16. Age is no excuse. If age has ANY reflection on skill then your jerseys should be kicking mine in the ass.

I was like you once. I posted a Washington Nationals concept that was rushed, inconsistent, and just plain bad on the eyes. AND I stole the 2001 NBA ASG logo to make it.

I'm sure Gregjigga and VitaminD will remember what happened after that. Gregjigga pointed out to me {though it was rather blatantly} how sloppy my work was and how it was bumping good concepts off the page. Also, I was defending myself by using the paint card. VitaminD backed him up as I continued to defend myself.

When all was said and done I had realized what I had done. I took awhile to rethink my work, and tried again. I did hockey concepts for a while {which offer more creativity and IMO} and after a long time I tried baseball again.

My concepts still ain't perfect and they dont get too much C&C. But theyre much better than they were. The main reason for little C&C is because of people like you posting stuff like this.

I'm sure you're probably a good guy. But you sure dont act like it. Youre ruining your self image with this. It doesnt matter if its for fun {like I do} or if youre submitting it to the team itself. If its crap. Its gonna get treated like crap. Youre gonna get treated like crap.

Remember, you dont want to be like Patsox. He was a Boston fan. Youre a New York fan. If New york is better than Boston then prove it. Be better than Patsox!

[Saturn]

but I tried.

Nope. You didn't even bother coloring in the lines.

[Shumway]

I wasnt expecting to be revered as the best and a secondcoming of DaVinci. Just some damn respect.

Well, in order to get respect, you've got to earn it. Learn from the C&C and fix up your work accordingly. Make some changes, get more C&C. Repeat as many times as necessary, not a hard process.

This isnt anyones job to make these

Someone had to have designed the jerseys you see teams wearing.

I dont appreciate being compared to someone who im unaware of who is

Look up Patsox in the search tool. You may see what they're talking about. I had to look up Patsox's concepts myself because I think his stint here was while I was on vacation.

If you take my 3 concepts and line them up next to eachother you see some improvements and creativity.

This may be slightly better than the Caps one, but it's still very sloppy.

As for some C&C:

- The logo is way too big. It shouldn't take up the whole chest.

- There really isn't much to the jerseys. It's just the big strip going down the arms. You've got a whole jersey to work with, why not use it all? Some sleeve/hem stripes or something exciting and fresh.

- As mentioned many times, it needs some definite clean-up

- Why did you cut off the sleeve on the back of the jersey?

- Hockey jerseys usually have shoulder patches and sleeve numbers

- The name and numbers on the back are white, yet the color doesn't appear anywehere else. I'd use the white elswehere, or not at all.

- Along the same lines, the logo has black, yet it's nowhere else.

Some of you have alot of growing up to do.

Might wanna take your own advice, to be honest. I'm not trying to blast you or anything, but seriously, be a bit more responsible and own up to sloppy work. It's not your age's fault or your program's fault, it's that you're not putting forth the effort.