Penguins Get Arena Deal Done

[HedleyLamarr]

It makes NO sense to move Nashville since they still sneak into the Central time zone, and have already started to establish rivalries. A lot of folks say nobody cares about Nashville. That's not true, and their base and rival base is growing, but why move them somewhere that probably DOESN'T care about Nashville right now?

Why not? Nashville is a Southeastern city. Washington isn't a Southeastern city. It makes perfect sense to put Nashville in a division with Carolina, Atlanta, Tampa Bay, and Florida. Putting Washington in a division with Philadelphia, New Jersey, and the New Yorks make sense.

This way, Detroit gets to keep intact it's longstanding rivalries with Chicago and St. Louis, as well as keeping a team in the division that resides in the same time zone.

Of course, if I were a Blues fan, I'd do anything to get Detroit out of the division. It can't be fun losing 7-8 times to that team each season.....

[BBTV]

If there was money to be made in Pittsburgh, some investor would have stepped to the plate by now. When the Flyers needed an arena, all they got was less than 6% contribution, and that was just loans (maybe a plot of land, not sure about that.)

The team got nothing, so they built it themselves (and that was before the Comcast money.) The price back then (~94) was nearly as much in '94 dollars as the Pens want for their arena in '07 dollars (may say something about local economies, may not.)

Despite the fact that they totally pwn the Flyers, I hope something can be worked out to keep the Pens, because they do have good fans, but welfare isn't the answer. This isn't the politicians fault at all. Sports is a business first these days, and it just may not be good business to operate in some markets (not singling out Pittsburgh, there's others too.)

[rams80]

It makes NO sense to move Nashville since they still sneak into the Central time zone, and have already started to establish rivalries. A lot of folks say nobody cares about Nashville. That's not true, and their base and rival base is growing, but why move them somewhere that probably DOESN'T care about Nashville right now?

Why not? Nashville is a Southeastern city. Washington isn't a Southeastern city. It makes perfect sense to put Nashville in a division with Carolina, Atlanta, Tampa Bay, and Florida. Putting Washington in a division with Philadelphia, New Jersey, and the New Yorks make sense.

This way, Detroit gets to keep intact it's longstanding rivalries with Chicago and St. Louis, as well as keeping a team in the division that resides in the same time zone.

Of course, if I were a Blues fan, I'd do anything to get Detroit out of the division. It can't be fun losing 7-8 times to that team each season.....

Its a tossup. They do the same against the Preds nowadays. Actually from a *this* Blues fan's perspective, the Columbus and Penguins swap spots realignment goes into the file of "worst case scenario" (Same division as the Predators, Red Wings, and Penguins? no thank you, I'd like to make the playoffs some time in the next ten years.)

[jkrdevil]

It makes NO sense to move Nashville since they still sneak into the Central time zone, and have already started to establish rivalries. A lot of folks say nobody cares about Nashville. That's not true, and their base and rival base is growing, but why move them somewhere that probably DOESN'T care about Nashville right now?

Why not? Nashville is a Southeastern city. Washington isn't a Southeastern city. It makes perfect sense to put Nashville in a division with Carolina, Atlanta, Tampa Bay, and Florida. Putting Washington in a division with Philadelphia, New Jersey, and the New Yorks make sense.

This way, Detroit gets to keep intact it's longstanding rivalries with Chicago and St. Louis, as well as keeping a team in the division that resides in the same time zone.

Of course, if I were a Blues fan, I'd do anything to get Detroit out of the division. It can't be fun losing 7-8 times to that team each season.....

Its a tossup. They do the same against the Preds nowadays. Actually from a *this* Blues fan's perspective, the Columbus and Penguins swap spots realignment goes into the file of "worst case scenario" (Same division as the Predators, Red Wings, and Penguins? no thank you, I'd like to make the playoffs some time in the next ten years.)

Moving Columbus into the Atlantic only makes sense if Pittsburgh stays and you are consolidating divisions. Without Pittsburgh Columbus would be the oddball of the division. You would have 4 teams in one little area and then another way out of the way. If Pittsburgh moves both Boston (if Detroit moves over) or Washington (If Nashville moves over) would fit right in the division as they are both Northeastern cities, Columbus isn't. Plus both those teams already have history with the Atlantic division teams. Washington moving up makes the most sense since Boston would lose their biggest rivalry with the Habs and Washington would lose 0 rivalries.

[STL FANATIC]

It makes NO sense to move Nashville since they still sneak into the Central time zone, and have already started to establish rivalries. A lot of folks say nobody cares about Nashville. That's not true, and their base and rival base is growing, but why move them somewhere that probably DOESN'T care about Nashville right now?

Why not? Nashville is a Southeastern city. Washington isn't a Southeastern city. It makes perfect sense to put Nashville in a division with Carolina, Atlanta, Tampa Bay, and Florida. Putting Washington in a division with Philadelphia, New Jersey, and the New Yorks make sense.

This way, Detroit gets to keep intact it's longstanding rivalries with Chicago and St. Louis, as well as keeping a team in the division that resides in the same time zone.

Of course, if I were a Blues fan, I'd do anything to get Detroit out of the division. It can't be fun losing 7-8 times to that team each season.....

You'll note I want niether Nashville nor Detroit out of the division. They've kicked our butts lately (actually, LATELY, LATELY, we've got there's), but I LOVE playing them. Those are the games I most look forward to.

Notice, I want the perenial doormat Blue Jackets to be the team that's moved out in favor of the up and coming and quite scary Penguins.

I don't think you were calling me out specifically anyways, I'm just saying my opinion can't be dismissed on what would be easier for the Blues, because I'm picking the hardest possible option.

[Ez Street]

Reports say the Meeting between Gov't officials and the Penguins is tomorrow at 6 (EST) in Philly.

Reportedly, AEG has upped their offer to the Pens for making the Sprint Center home. Seems like the Houston and Las Vegas threats worked on that front.

It's most likely a two town race on this. I can't see Houston or Las Vegas putting together a offer that trumps Pittsburgh or KC.

Right now I'd say:

Pittsburgh - 75%

Kansas City - 24%

Other 1%

[leedsunited]

If the Pens do stay then KC might set their sights on the Florida Panthers or Nashville Predators.

And I'd say more power to KC in regards to grabbing those franchises.

[EatSleepJeep]

[Ez Street]

That's funny.

[EatSleepJeep]

only if you know what the Sprint Center looks like...

I liked the humor.

[ZapRowsdower8]

Half an hour until the meeting. I feel sick.

I wish this on no fan.

[Lee.]

Now you know how Winnipeg felt.

My condolences- I do hope they stay, but at the same time, I look forward to seeing Crosby and Ovechkin at GM Place more than once every three years.

[rams80]

So anyway, I've been lurking the last couple of days at hfboards.com and besides debating whether I will ever root for a NHL team North of the Mason-Dixon line again with all the "South" and "Midwest" bashing, I have a question for those who are actually old enough to remember.

Were people saying that the Nords would be as abysmal a failure in Denver as the Pens fans are saying the team would be in Kansas City?

EDIT-BTW, why is that hockey is seemingly the only sport that has a concept of "non-traditional" markets? Heck...40 years ago Philly and Minneapolis were "non-traditional markets", if we applied the "durr the Scouts failed in KC logic" to Pittsburgh in '67, well lets just say that after the failure of the Pirates in the 30s there would be no Penguins to begin with.

[IceCap]

So anyway, I've been lurking the last couple of days at hfboards.com and besides debating whether I will ever root for a NHL team North of the Mason-Dixon line again with all the "South" and "Midwest" bashing, I have a question for those who are actually old enough to remember.

Were people saying that the Nords would be as abysmal a failure in Denver as the Pens fans are saying the team would be in Kansas City?

EDIT-BTW, why is that hockey is seemingly the only sport that has a concept of "non-traditional" markets? Heck...40 years ago Philly and Minneapolis were "non-traditional markets", if we applied the "durr the Scouts failed in KC logic" to Pittsburgh in '67, well lets just say that after the failure of the Pirates in the 30s there would be no Penguins to begin with.

Hockey being the only major sport with "traditional" markets has to do with the natural requirements needed to play the game in it's simplest form. Back when hockey first emerged as a sport, before the NHL or even the NHA, it was impossible to have a hockey team south of what we consider to be the "traditional" markets. The other part of that meant that sports fans that didn't live in northern cities never played hockey and were rarely, if at all, exposed to it.

Back then you could play baseball, basketball, football, and soccer anywhere, you didn't need a specific climate. With hockey a northern climate was a necessity to play hockey. So that's how we get "traditional" and "non traditional" hockey markets.

Please don't lump everyone who is a fan of "traditional" market hockey into one group. Most are idiots who would want to move the Dallas Stars, Atlanta Thrasher, Tampa Bay Lightning, or Caroline Hurricanes simply because they're southern teams. As a fan of a "traditional" market team, and someone who would like to see one or two more Canadian teams, I would say not only have the Stars, Thrashers, Bolts, and 'Canes been a success when it comes to expanding the sport, but the NHL would be worse off without those franchises, even if they were moved to more "traditional" markets.

However to claim that southern expansion has been a complete success would be just as foolish. The Nashville Predators are one of the NHL's best teams, but they're 23rd in attendance. Florida and Phoenix are also failing to attract fans. Anaheim, a favourite to win the Stanley Cup, has trouble selling out. So as far as those teams go, I do believe it would benefit the NHL if they were moved to a city that wants NHL hockey.

Sure, most of those cities would be "traditional" cities; Winnipeg, Quebec City, Hamilton, Seattle, Milwaukee, etc..., but I would also add KC to that list.

You see, I never really lumped the midwest in with the south as far as hockey goes. Sure, the midwest may not be filled with "traditional" markets, but I think St. Louis is a very good hockey town, and I see that same potential in KC. Even as a fan of "traditional" market hockey, I'm actually pulling for the Pens to head out west to KC rather then stay in a city that obviously doesn't want them, traditional market or not.

So again, please don't group all the fans of "traditional" markets into one group. Also, I would consider the midwest great "hockey territory."

if we applied the "durr the Scouts failed in KC logic"

I agree, that's awful logic. Minnesota proved the "They failed back then, they'll fail now" argument.

As for the Scouts though, if the Pens, or any other team, move to KC, please stay away from the "Scouts" name. I don't have anything against the name or logos, I just feel a team has a right to its history. As far as I'm concerned the KC Scouts are a part of the NJ Devils' club history.

So please KC, don't steal part of a team's lineage.

The name "Penguins" rules, and the logo's great. So if the Pens move, I would be in favour of them keeping the Penguins name, and modifying the logo (replace the triangle with the "KC" from the old Scouts logo?). Or if they have to change, how about Kansas City Bombers?

[CC97]

I'm actually pulling for the Pens to head out west to KC rather then stay in a city that obviously doesn't want them, traditional market or not.

Based on their attendance I'd say the fans want 'em to stick around... it seems to be the Pittsburgh / Pennsylvania Governments who are the ones that don't necessarily care whether they stay or go.

[IceCap]

I'm actually pulling for the Pens to head out west to KC rather then stay in a city that obviously doesn't want them, traditional market or not.

Based on their attendance I'd say the fans want 'em to stick around... it seems to be the Pittsburgh / Pennsylvania Governments who are the ones that don't necessarily care whether they stay or go.

I'm sorry, I should have made myself clear. I was refereeing to the city/state officials when I said Pittsburgh doesn't want them around. My apologies.

It is sad though when the league commissioner cares more about the team staying put then the city government does.

[Guest]

Though it is refreshing that the commissioner cares at all. Quebec City, Winnipeg, and Hartford should've been so lucky.

[IceCap]

Though it is refreshing that the commissioner cares at all. Quebec City, Winnipeg, and Hartford should've been so lucky.

Well Bettman wanted QC and Winnipeg gone. Hartford basically faced the same situation Pittsburgh's facing now; great fan support, but no arena. Why Bettman didn't interject himself there is a good question to ask. Can't say I have an answer.

As for Pittsburgh, there's nothing wrong with a commissioner wanting to look out for a team on the verge of relocating. In fact I'll say this is one of the few instances that Bettman has acted like a competent commissioner.

Still, in a cases like this it should be the city/state officials who should trying the hardest to keep the team, not the league commissioner.

[Rampart]

In all fairness to the state and local officials, I think they've put together a pretty fair plan. Kansas City's deal is very unique and hopefully will draw team whose fanbase doesn't support thier team very well. Right now it seems that Lemieux and Ron Burkle are using KC as a bargaining chip to get the best deal possible.

Maybe the Devils should move back to KC. It seems that New Jersey can't fill seats with a first place team.

[HedleyLamarr]

Maybe the Devils should move back to KC. It seems that New Jersey can't fill seats with a first place team.

1. New Jersey's moving into a new building next year. That should boost attendance.

2. The Devils were farther out I-70. They came from Colorado, not Kansas City.