George Mitchell Report

[infrared41]

Again I'm not being a Cl*m*ns apologist here,

No not much. Seriously, I see your point. I'll try to find better pictures.

But for now, take a look at this.

Be sure to check out some of the links as well.

And I don't know how this looks like he got fat or "filled out." His jaw is almost square in the picture on the right but it's all subjective I guess.

As I got older I "filled out" too but my chest didn't get broader, my gut did. My face didn't get bigger, my chin just multiplied.

Just saying.

[zig]

Two more developments that give the Mitchell Report more validity

1) Brian Roberts admits to using Steroid

- I think this one especially gives the Mitchell report strength because people were complaining about the evidence against Roberts and how it was inconclusive.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3159406

BALTIMORE -- Baltimore Orioles second baseman Brian Roberts has acknowledged using steroids, but insists he only tried it once before realizing he had made a "terrible decision."

Brian Roberts

Roberts

Roberts was named in former Sen. George Mitchell's report on steroid use in Major League Baseball. The report came out last Thursday, but Roberts did not immediately respond.

In a statement issued Tuesday to The Associated Press, Roberts said he tried steroids four years ago.

"In 2003, when I took one shot of steroids, I immediately realized that this was not what I stood for or anything that I wanted to continue doing. I never used steroids, human growth hormone or any other performance-enhancing drugs prior to or since that single incident," he said.

"I can honestly say before God, myself, my family and all of my fans, that steroids or any performance-enhancing drugs have never had any effect on what I have worked so hard to accomplish in the game of baseball."

Roberts was in the Mitchell report because former teammate Larry Bigbie informed investigators that Roberts told him he used steroids "once or twice" in 2003.

"I am very sorry and I deeply regret ever making that terrible decision," Roberts said in the statement. "My only hope and prayer is that the Orioles, my family, friends and fans that have supported me so faithfully will forgive me."

Roberts has twice been named to the American League All-Star team, including this season. He has a career batting average of .281. Returning from offseason elbow surgery, in 2007 he batted .290 and stole a career-high 50 bases.

He has never failed a drug test and previously had denied vigorously ever using performance-enhancing drugs.

"I have worked very hard to develop a good reputation both on and off the field," he said in the statement. "I have always taken pride in being a man of integrity and values. I know that by being a professional athlete, I am held to a very high standard. I never have and never will take that for granted. However, I am also human and I have made mistakes."

Copyright 2007 by The Associated Press

2) Fernando Vina admits to using HGH but not steroids.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3158744

ESPN baseball analyst and former major leaguer Fernando Vina said Monday he used HGH in 2003 to try and recover from injuries, but said he never bought steroids from former New York Mets clubhouse attendant Kirk Radomski, despite claims to the contrary in the Mitchell report released last week.

"In 2003, I did use HGH," Vina said in an interview with ESPN's Bob Ley.

The Mitchell report claims that Radomski "stated that he sold anabolic steroids or human growth hormone to Vina six to eight times during 2000 to 2005." The report says Radomski had three checks from Vina: one from March 2003 for HGH, one from April 2003 for steroids (most likely Winstrol) and July 2005 for Deca-Durabolin. Copies of the checks were included in the report.

Vina told ESPN he knew Radomski from his time with the Mets and tried HGH after injurying his knee and hamstring in 2003. He said there was pressure from his team (he was in St. Louis at the time), and pressure from himself to get back on the field.

"I tried everything rehabbing," he said. "I came to a point that I was desperate..."

Vina said he tried HGH to heal himself, not to build bulk. "For me, it was to try to get back on the field," he said. "That was the bottom line."

"Was it right? No. Obviously, it was wrong ... I'm embararssed by it," Vina said.

He also said the HGH didn't work, and he was out of baseball during the 2004 season. He played 29 games in '04 and 61 in '03 after playing more than 150 games the previous two seasons.

Vina said that 2003 and 2004 were the only times he used HGH, disputing the claims in the Mitchell report of using steroids of HGH "six to eight times during 2000 to 2005."

"I never used steroids," he said. "I never bought steroids from him. All I used was HGH."

Vina said he was never directly contacted in the Mitchell investigation, though he heard things through his agent. He said he never talked to Mitchell.

Of the checks in the report, especially the one in 2005, Vina said: "I made a lot of checks to a lot of different people in the baseball cities," he said. "That's just the way things go."

He said he wrote Radomski, and others, checks for a number of things that weren't HGH related.

"Bottom line. It was stupid. I'm embarrassed now, and it didn't help, either," Vina said.

[Mac the Knife]

But for now, take a look at this.

Be sure to check out some of the links as well.

And I don't know how this looks like he got fat or "filled out." His jaw is almost square in the picture on the right but it's all subjective I guess.

As I got older I "filled out" too but my chest didn't get broader, my gut did. My face didn't get bigger, my chin just multiplied.

Just saying.

Unfortunately those pics don't make the case strongly enough for would-be Cl*m*ns apologists (of which, again, I'm not one) One's a full-body shot, the other a close-up on the face and part of the torso - not enough to conclusively prove the case.

When I 'filled out' my jaw area was among the first areas to do so, going square, then assuming its now fat, double-chinned look. My gut expanded considerably, but my chest did as well, going from a 34 (at age 18) to a 42 (at age 24) all the way to a 60 (at age 32, when my heart finally gave out from all the I'd been eating). No steroids were involved, trust me.

[/devil's advocate]

In reality though, I can see the arguments for Cl*m*ns steroid use quite clearly - there's more than enough smoke to say there was, indeed, a fire. It's just that the 'evidence' that most people are referring to is circumstantial (sp?), and easily explained away with the right person arguing the case.

[McCall]

From ESPN.com

Clemens fires back, denies taking steroids or HGH

Associated Press

Updated: December 18, 2007, 3:40 PM ET

NEW YORK -- Roger Clemens denied allegations by his former trainer that he took performance-enhancing drugs, calling them "a dangerous and destructive shortcut that no athlete should ever take.''

The accusations against the seven-time Cy Young Award winner from his former trainer, Brian McNamee, were contained in last week's Mitchell Report. Former Senate Majority Leader George Mitchell said McNamee said he injected Clemens with steroids in 1998 while with the Toronto Blue Jays, and steroids and human growth hormone in 2000 and 2001, while with the New York Yankees.

"I want to state clearly and without qualification: I did not take steroids, human growth hormone or any other banned substances at any time in my baseball career or, in fact, my entire life,'' Clemens said Tuesday in a statement issued through his agent, Randy Hendricks. "Those substances represent a dangerous and destructive shortcut that no athlete should ever take.

"I am disappointed that my 25 years in public life have apparently not earned me the benefit of the doubt, but I understand that Senator Mitchell's report has raised many serious questions. I plan to publicly answer all of those questions at the appropriate time in the appropriate way. I only ask that in the meantime people not rush to judgment.''

Another McNamee client, Yankees pitcher Andy Pettitte, said last weekend that he took HGH twice while rehabbing from an injury in 2002. Mitchell said McNamee told him he injected Pettitte with HGH two-to-four times that year.

Baseball players and owners didn't have an agreement banning steroids until September 2002. They banned HGH in January 2005.

Way to go, Roger. Wait nearly a week after the report before saying anything. That'll help your case in the court of public opinion.

[STL FANATIC]

It's just that the 'evidence' that most people are referring to is circumstantial (sp?), and easily explained away with the right person arguing the case.

See Mark McGwire.

However, if you even attempt to argue away that evidence, you're simply a blind homer. (<--That's me for anyone wondering.)

You, MadMac, despite no apparent ties to Roger Clemens, are a blind homer.

[Jigga]

Justin, don't insult our intelligence. I don't remember Mac blindly giving the benefit of the doubt to anyone who has ever worn their favorite team's rags or ever saying "I AM A (fill in favorite team here). You're not a blind homer solely because you argue on Mark McGwire's behalf. Your homerism goes so far beyond that, it's ridiculous. Forget Big Mac, your martyrdom of Josh Hancock was more than enough for me...

_________________________

Anywho, who's buying this "I only used it once/twice" and "I only did it to rehab, not to gain an advantage" bullplop? Certainly not me.

Now, I'm cynical by nature, but as someone who on two occasions very seriously looked into taking both HGH and anabolic steroids (the only reason I didn't was because I couldn't afford 'em), I can't understand or fathom who would waste the time, effort, and money to take this stuff once or twice. First of all, they require you to go on cycles lasting several weeks. PEDs aren't your run-of-the-mill OTC medications. It's not like this stuff hits the bloodstream, takes effect in a few minutes to an hour, does it job, and you don't need to take it anymore. It takes the concerted effort of schedule dosing. You would have no idea if it "worked" if you only took it once.

A couple of other things:

1. Though HGH wasn't banned by baseball until 2005 IIRC, it was still illegal to get unless you meet a very select set of criteria.
   
2. Furthermore, if you need to take HGH because a doctor prescribed it, then why the are you ordering from a dentist via the Internet or getting it from the clubhouse attendants, the same guys that fetch your dry cleaning and collects the phone numbers from all your little groupies?
   
3. How is taking PEDs to rehab less of a problem than taking it to "enhance" performance. Let me get this straight, you using artificial means to heal from an injury so that you can extend your career, or get back in the lineup more quickly, or play on a day or a season when you otherwise couldn't is supposed to be less egregious than taking it to bulk up to hit home runs or throw 100mph (I mean we all aren't blessed with superhuman athletic talents like Nick1733)? A friend of mine related how it reminds him of people who act like an accident wasn't their fault because they were "distracted," failing to realize their distraction caused the damn accident (and is just about the definition of negligence).
   

Sports fans are sheep (fan IS short for fanatic). The mass public is stupid and Andy Pettitte, Fernando Vina, Brian Roberts, etc. (or their PR handlers) all know it, so they continue to play on the stupidity of the adoring sheep as long as they get a free pass. Good guys make mistakes, bad guys make mistakes, and people you like cheated, whether you know about it or not.

[STL FANATIC]

Justin, don't insult our intelligence. I don't remember Mac blindly giving the benefit of the doubt to anyone who has ever worn their favorite team's rags or ever saying "I AM A (fill in favorite team here). You're not a blind homer solely because you argue on Mark McGwire's behalf. Your homerism goes so far beyond that, it's ridiculous. Forget Big Mac, your martyrdom of Josh Hancock was more than enough for me...

Whatever, Greg.

I can't even make a joke about it without you being a jerk about it.

I stand by everything I've ever said. I didn't make a martyr out of Josh Hancock. You misinterpreted everything if you think I did.

I remain a Cardinal. Read my signature. It's not so out of line as you think.

Oh well.

I'm done with it. Like I said, I was making a joke. You piled on a pile that wasn't even there. Do what you will.

[STL FANATIC]

Anywho, who's buying this "I only used it once/twice" and "I only did it to rehab, not to gain an advantage" bullplop? Certainly not me.

I did want to address this part of your post too.

Here, I'm with you.

I try to avoid being overly skeptical to the point of a witchhunt and such.

But so far everybody's admitted to as little as they can but enough to still come off with the whole "good for him, admitting it and what not" type of vibe.

Pettitte was accussed of taking HGH 2-4 times. He admitted to taking it twice, and of course just to recover from injury.

Vina was accused of taking HGH and two types of anabolic steriods 6-8 times over a few different years, he admitted to taking HGH during one season and nothing more. And again, that HGH was of course just to recover from injury.

Brian Roberts was accused of taking steriods 1-2 times, he admitted to taking it once and apparently had an immediate realization that it was bad.

Makes me wonder if somebody has instructed the players that the best PR method is to admit to as little as possible and condemn steroid use from then on out.

[infrared41]

I didn't make a martyr out of Josh Hancock.

Actually, you did go a bit overboard with it.

On topic, McGwire was a user. Clemens is a user. And the Mitchell report was about three inches of the tip of a 10 mile high iceberg. People who think PEDs are isolated instances here and there just don't want to see the truth. Before 1998 no one had ever won 3 MVP awards. Bonds won 4 in a row after age 36. Show me where that has ever happened in any sport. The guy wins two MVP awards at the ages of 28 and 29 then goes 7 -ing years before he wins four more? In a row? And people really think that had nothing to do with steroids or HGH? Mark McGwire hit 500 foot homeruns every day because he lifted weights and took perfectly legal andro. Yeah right.

Face it folks, this of guys getting better with age is a relatively new phenomenon. Everyone likes to use Nolan Ryan as an example of why what Clemens has done was possible but here's the thing; Ryan didn't get better with age. He stayed the same. The guy was a little better than .500 pitcher most of his career. He didn't improve as he got older he just kept throwing the same heat he did when he came up. As far as I can tell he's about the only power pitcher pre-steroid era that ever did anything like that.

Yeah, Vina, Roberts, Pettitte, et al only used "a couple times for injuries" and I'm going to sing Hail to the Victors after every LSU touchdown on January 7th. This is as obvious as the pinstripes on a Yankees jersey. The Mitchell Report was just the beginning. Wait until someone offers one of these "trainers" a seven figure book deal.

[Milo Meningocele]

I remain a Cardinal. Read my signature. It's not so out of line as you think.

Your signature just states you're part of the "Cardinal Family". Even it doesn't say you are a Cardinal.

...Just sayin'.

[Eye]

I remain a Cardinal. Read my signature. It's not so out of line as you think.

Your signature just states you're part of the "Cardinal Family". Even it doesn't say you are a Cardinal.

...Just sayin'.

I saw the Cardinals play in the World Series a few years back, so I am in the Cardinal Family. Nobody mistreat my relative, STL FANATIC, ok u guise. Gatorade is thicker than water, and I will always have STL FANATIC's back when it comes to the Cardinal family that I have just found out I am part of.

CARDINAL FAMILY FTW, BTW!!!!!!!111 yay! GO CARDZZZ

[STL FANATIC]

I saw the Cardinals play in the World Series a few years back, so I am in the Cardinal Family. Nobody mistreat my relative, STL FANATIC, ok u guise. Gatorade is thicker than water, and I will always have STL FANATIC's back when it comes to the Cardinal family that I have just found out I am part of.

CARDINAL FAMILY FTW, BTW!!!!!!!111 yay! GO CARDZZZ

Neato.

[Mac the Knife]

You, MadMac, despite no apparent ties to Roger Clemens, are a blind homer.

Nah. I just enjoy playing devil's advocate to the Nth degree... sort of like Nick Naylor in "Thank You For Smoking."

[Burning River]

So, I see Clemens has made a statement.

I still don't buy it. The way these statements are worded leaves an "out". He claims: "I want to state clearly and without qualification: I did not take steroids, human growth hormone or any other banned substances at any time in my baseball career or, in fact, my entire life...''. That may be true. I still think he might have taken the next level of HGH... therefore his "out" is that whatever he took was not banned yet. Therefore, it's not a steroid and it's not exactly an HGH. So, he convinced himself that he is being truthful.

Also...

Stating "I did not take..." leaves the door open that he could claim that he had no idea what someone injected in to him. No one is simply claiming "I never took or was injected by someone else with a chemical to help my body heal or transform in ANY way." Yes, Clemens' statement seems clear... yet when you look at it, he leaves the loophole. Which may become a noose if he's not careful.

It's sort of a step above "I never knowingly took...". That was the statement most commonly used prior to this report being released. That grew very tired. Now it's, "Steroids = BAD!! HGH =experimental, doing it for the team

[DEAD!]

I don't buy what Clemens said either.... he should have pointed the finger and said , "I have never used steroids, period."

[Shumway]

I'm confused. Would one injection of steroids or HGH, as many of these guys are claiming they've done, give a guy enough of an edge to have a breakout year, or are these guys just full of it? I don't see how doing it once would make a difference, unless they mena they had one stint as a steroids user, as opposed to being stuck with a needle once.

[Burning River]

I would say "Probably not". It seems that the people admitting some usage are not the ones that had a transformation of body type. They claim that they just tried it.

It seems that if their name is just mentioned once in the report, the player is claiming "Yeah... I tried it once" They are taking the "Pity me.. I was desperae to help my team" approach.

[STL FANATIC]

I'm going to bed, so I'm not gonna dig up the link to the article, but I just saw that Curt Schilling said Roger Clemens numbers, records, and awards are tainted since 1997 unless Clemens can clear his name. He thinks Clemens should give back his four Cy Young's since then and that his stats should not count.

I think Schilling and people who feel that way are crazy. The numbers cannot be stricken. The awards and records can't be given back.

What happened happened. It may not have happened legally, but it happened. We can't pretend it didn't.

I know there's a story on ESPN.com, and I believe the original quotes came straight from Schilling's blog with I think is 38pitches.com

[Mac the Knife]

38pitches? Is that the length of his average start nowadays or something?

[DEAD!]

Perhaps .... someone should take a closer look at Schilling?