2008 MLB Season

[See Red]

Wait a minute. I thought Brandon Moss was "useless"?

And yes, the man that helped bring you two World Championships. him!

Please, don't make me argue with you over freaking Brandon Moss. Of course I would rather have him than not have him, but if you have a guy like Mahay on the table, you have to do that. Here it is a case of massive overpaying when you shouldn't have to get rid of him. I thought you would understand that.

You tell me one deadline deal Theo has done that has worked out well. One.

w00tness, my understanding is that that was the condition no matter where Manny was traded, and yes, it's all Bora$$'s fault.

Trading Nomar worked out great!

But Theo eventually kind of :censored:ed it up by not resigning Orlando Cabrera.

[Maz]

Boston and Pittsburgh both just got screwed.

Way to go Pittsburgh! Way to do exactly what youve been doing for the past 15 ing years! Lets trade one of our best, even if they are actually pretty bad, for a bunch of prospects that will most likely turn out to be complete nobodies! Whats even better? They went to the RED SOX! The freaking RED SOX! And where did our last trade go? The YANKEES! We traded our best to two of the most elite teams in the league, and what do we get!? PROSPECTS! Freaking prospects! Weve been trying to use prospects for the past 15 years, in case you havent noticed, it hasnt worked.

Glad to see our "new" management is doin the job!

[Cujo]

Please be for Matt Kemp!

edit: ugh... , I don't want Bay.

You must be high as fu*k to want Matt Freaking Kemp over ManRam. I'd rather take an angry, slumping, and disgruntled Manny over Kemp any day (And you wanted Manny out because he was angry, and disgruntled? Matt Kemp has ALL of those same issues).

But personally, Boston trading Manny, and Kemp not moving at all is a huge disappointment. He's certainly no Manny, and he certainly is good.

If you're going to trade a player like ManRam, you would like to get a superstar in the making like Matt Kemp. I believe Jason Bay has reached his max in Pittsburgh. Good in 2005 and '06, horrible in '07, decent again in '08. However, he didn't even make the All-Star team this year. If you think you can replace Manny's stick with Bay's, you're outta you mind. On the other hand, you want a player in return like Kemp. He's got the potential to be an elite, Manny Ramirez-like player someday.

[gingerbreadmann]

Wait a minute. I thought Brandon Moss was "useless"?

And yes, the man that helped bring you two World Championships. him!

Please, don't make me argue with you over freaking Brandon Moss. Of course I would rather have him than not have him, but if you have a guy like Mahay on the table, you have to do that. Here it is a case of massive overpaying when you shouldn't have to get rid of him. I thought you would understand that.

You tell me one deadline deal Theo has done that has worked out well. One.

w00tness, my understanding is that that was the condition no matter where Manny was traded, and yes, it's all Bora$$'s fault.

Trading Nomar worked out great!

But Theo eventually kind of :censored:ed it up by not resigning Orlando Cabrera.

:censored:, I meant to say "besides Nomar," but then got ahead of myself.

maz, I actually think the Pirates made out like bandits here. Unbelievable what Huntington got for only Bay.

[Brass]

Let's wait until the end of the season to write this one off.

[See Red]

Please be for Matt Kemp!

edit: ugh... , I don't want Bay.

You must be high as fu*k to want Matt Freaking Kemp over ManRam. I'd rather take an angry, slumping, and disgruntled Manny over Kemp any day (And you wanted Manny out because he was angry, and disgruntled? Matt Kemp has ALL of those same issues).

But personally, Boston trading Manny, and Kemp not moving at all is a huge disappointment. He's certainly no Manny, and he certainly is good.

If you're going to trade a player like ManRam, you would like to get a superstar in the making Matt Kemp. I believe Jason Bay has reached his max in Pittsburgh. Good in 2005 and '06, horrible in '07, decent again in '08. However, he didn't even make the All-Star team this year. If you think you can replace Manny's stick with Bay's, you're outta you mind. On the other hand, you want a player in return like Kemp. He's got the potential to be an elite, Manny Ramirez-like player someday.

Exactly.... on the Matt Kemp point, anyway. Jason Bay's still only 29 and it's clear last season was an anomaly. Oh, and I was wrong about Kemp... he's only 23. So Bucfan, you're essentially asking why I'd want a 23 year old who's hitting .295/.352/.466 with 12 HR's and 57 RBI's in what's really his first full MLB season... how high are you?

And Bay can replace Manny's stick if he can handle the pressure of playing in Boston in a pennant chase. Not sure what the lineup is going to look like, but he's never had anyone like Big Papi or Mike Lowell batting behind him.

[Cujo]

Oh by the way, Manny won't be taking #24 with him to Hollywood as it's been retired by the Dodgers. (Walter Alston)

[See Red]

Boston and Pittsburgh both just got screwed.

Way to go Pittsburgh! Way to do exactly what youve been doing for the past 15 ing years! Lets trade one of our best, even if they are actually pretty bad, for a bunch of prospects that will most likely turn out to be complete nobodies! Whats even better? They went to the RED SOX! The freaking RED SOX! And where did our last trade go? The YANKEES! We traded our best to two of the most elite teams in the league, and what do we get!? PROSPECTS! Freaking prospects! Weve been trying to use prospects for the past 15 years, in case you havent noticed, it hasnt worked.

Glad to see our "new" management is doin the job!

If you compare what the Pirates got in this deal compared to what the Pirates would've gotten from Tampa, this deal wins by far, if that's any consolation.

[hormone]

Boston and Pittsburgh both just got screwed.

Way to go Pittsburgh! Way to do exactly what youve been doing for the past 15 ing years! Lets trade one of our best, even if they are actually pretty bad, for a bunch of prospects that will most likely turn out to be complete nobodies! Whats even better? They went to the RED SOX! The freaking RED SOX! And where did our last trade go? The YANKEES! We traded our best to two of the most elite teams in the league, and what do we get!? PROSPECTS! Freaking prospects! Weve been trying to use prospects for the past 15 years, in case you havent noticed, it hasnt worked.

Glad to see our "new" management is doin the job!

A-Freakin'-men I'm sick of it. We had something to build around with Bay-Nate-Nady and now we've got prospects to look forward to seeing in the lineup in 2018! Please trade McClouth, Wilson, and Sanchez! I want to only come to the park for bobbleheads and fireworks and not to watch competitive baseball. Please!!! I told everyone Nutting was a cheaper than the last regime.

[FiddySicks]

Please be for Matt Kemp!

edit: ugh... , I don't want Bay.

You must be high as fu*k to want Matt Freaking Kemp over ManRam. I'd rather take an angry, slumping, and disgruntled Manny over Kemp any day (And you wanted Manny out because he was angry, and disgruntled? Matt Kemp has ALL of those same issues).

But personally, Boston trading Manny, and Kemp not moving at all is a huge disappointment. He's certainly no Manny, and he certainly is good.

If you're going to trade a player like ManRam, you would like to get a superstar in the making like Matt Kemp. I believe Jason Bay has reached his max in Pittsburgh. Good in 2005 and '06, horrible in '07, decent again in '08. However, he didn't even make the All-Star team this year. If you think you can replace Manny's stick with Bay's, you're outta you mind. On the other hand, you want a player in return like Kemp. He's got the potential to be an elite, Manny Ramirez-like player someday.

That's where I disagree with you and ITE88. I've had the opportunity to see Kemp several times this year both in person and on TV vs the Giants. He's high strung and has a really short temper, tries to force the issue a ton of times, and falls apart in the clutch. No doubt he's talented, I'm not knocking that he is, and if he matures a bit he could be great. But trading a FUTURE HALL OF FAMER who still has a ton left in the tank for Matt Kemp would be ridiculous. And nobody can even try to claim "well, he'll be great a few years from now!!!", anyone claiming that Boston will be patient enough to let that happen is fibbing outta their a$$es.

[ZapRowsdower8]

Bay would choke in the clutch in Pittsburgh. Can't wait to see what he does in Boston. Comparing this to other Pirate trades over the past 16 years I think this is great.... for a Pirates trade.....

[njmeadowlanders]

By the way, what's the over/under on bottles of scotch Joe Torre's plowed through since he found out about Manny?

Mind you it would've been only 1 PM local time when the deadline arrived there...

[Cujo]

Please be for Matt Kemp!

edit: ugh... , I don't want Bay.

You must be high as fu*k to want Matt Freaking Kemp over ManRam. I'd rather take an angry, slumping, and disgruntled Manny over Kemp any day (And you wanted Manny out because he was angry, and disgruntled? Matt Kemp has ALL of those same issues).

But personally, Boston trading Manny, and Kemp not moving at all is a huge disappointment. He's certainly no Manny, and he certainly is good.

If you're going to trade a player like ManRam, you would like to get a superstar in the making like Matt Kemp. I believe Jason Bay has reached his max in Pittsburgh. Good in 2005 and '06, horrible in '07, decent again in '08. However, he didn't even make the All-Star team this year. If you think you can replace Manny's stick with Bay's, you're outta you mind. On the other hand, you want a player in return like Kemp. He's got the potential to be an elite, Manny Ramirez-like player someday.

That's where I disagree with you and ITE88. I've had the opportunity to see Kemp several times this year both in person and on TV vs the Giants. He's high strung and has a really short temper, tries to force the issue a ton of times, and falls apart in the clutch. No doubt he's talented, I'm not knocking that he is, and if he matures a bit he could be great. But trading a FUTURE HALL OF FAMER who still has a ton left in the tank for Matt Kemp would be ridiculous. And nobody can even try to claim "well, he'll be great a few years from now!!!", anyone claiming that Boston will be patient enough to let that happen is fibbing outta their a$$es.

You sound more like a jealous Dodger hater more than a Jason Bay supporter with that statement.

As of this very moment, Matt Kemp and Jason Bay are on the same level -- Both talented, second-tier outfielders. However, as ITE88 pointed out, there's a six-year differece between the two. That means there is still time for Kemp to improve and become a great player and team leader. I'm not saying it's 100% going to happen, but it is a possability. Jason Bay will NEVER be that player.

And that, my friend, is why you want Matt Kemp.

[See Red]

Please be for Matt Kemp!

edit: ugh... , I don't want Bay.

You must be high as fu*k to want Matt Freaking Kemp over ManRam. I'd rather take an angry, slumping, and disgruntled Manny over Kemp any day (And you wanted Manny out because he was angry, and disgruntled? Matt Kemp has ALL of those same issues).

But personally, Boston trading Manny, and Kemp not moving at all is a huge disappointment. He's certainly no Manny, and he certainly is good.

If you're going to trade a player like ManRam, you would like to get a superstar in the making like Matt Kemp. I believe Jason Bay has reached his max in Pittsburgh. Good in 2005 and '06, horrible in '07, decent again in '08. However, he didn't even make the All-Star team this year. If you think you can replace Manny's stick with Bay's, you're outta you mind. On the other hand, you want a player in return like Kemp. He's got the potential to be an elite, Manny Ramirez-like player someday.

That's where I disagree with you and ITE88. I've had the opportunity to see Kemp several times this year both in person and on TV vs the Giants. He's high strung and has a really short temper, tries to force the issue a ton of times, and falls apart in the clutch. No doubt he's talented, I'm not knocking that he is, and if he matures a bit he could be great. But trading a FUTURE HALL OF FAMER who still has a ton left in the tank for Matt Kemp would be ridiculous. And nobody can even try to claim "well, he'll be great a few years from now!!!", anyone claiming that Boston will be patient enough to let that happen is fibbing outta their a$$es.

Why wouldn't Boston be alright with a cost controlled 20 HR, 40 steal guy (his projection for this year) who's still years away from his prime. And it'd be trading a future hall of famer who's not happy in Boston, ducks pitchers, and won't be playing in Boston next year anyway.

Ugh... I really, really wanted Matt Kemp.

[Brian in Boston]

Frankly, Ramirez was dead to me the minute he pushed 64-year-old travelling secretary Jack McCormick to the clubhouse floor in Houston back on June 28th. I came to the conclusion that day that I would rather the Red Sox organization conduct itself with a bit of dignity than allow itself to be cowed by the outrageously self-absorbed and petulant behavior of the immature slugger.

Several of my former sports journalism colleagues back in New England have told me that Manny's had a proverbial hair across his backside ever since Terry Francona read him the riot-act behind closed doors for the McCormick incident. Apparently, Jason Varitek also let Manny know that such behavior was unacceptable. So, Manny - convinced that he should be allowed to do whatever he likes - turned his anger over being reprimanded into indignation about not having his contract renewed during the season. Further, he claims that the Red Sox didn't show him the proper respect. No, not at all. They only went out of their way to downplay your atrocious behavior in Houston by handling everything "behind closed doors" and as "a family".

And therein is the mistake the Red Sox made with Ramirez. They handled the talented but emotionally unstable prima donna with kid gloves for too long. When the incident went down with McCormick, the Sox should have publicly called Ramirez on the carpet, fined him and suspended him. I wonder what Manny would have made of that?

He is a dangerous hitter who contributed mightily to a pair of World Series titles in Boston. For that, Red Sox fans owe him our grudging thanks.

That said, he was a selfish malcontent who ceaselessly found things to bitch about during his tenure in a Sox uniform... and stepped WAY over the line in his confrontation with McCormick. For the latter alone, it is high time he was shown the door.

[w00tness]

By the way, what's the over/under on bottles of scotch Joe Torre's plowed through since he found out about Manny?

I'm gonna go with 7 bottles in 3 hours. Until he passed out, of course.

[FiddySicks]

Please be for Matt Kemp!

edit: ugh... , I don't want Bay.

You must be high as fu*k to want Matt Freaking Kemp over ManRam. I'd rather take an angry, slumping, and disgruntled Manny over Kemp any day (And you wanted Manny out because he was angry, and disgruntled? Matt Kemp has ALL of those same issues).

But personally, Boston trading Manny, and Kemp not moving at all is a huge disappointment. He's certainly no Manny, and he certainly is good.

If you're going to trade a player like ManRam, you would like to get a superstar in the making like Matt Kemp. I believe Jason Bay has reached his max in Pittsburgh. Good in 2005 and '06, horrible in '07, decent again in '08. However, he didn't even make the All-Star team this year. If you think you can replace Manny's stick with Bay's, you're outta you mind. On the other hand, you want a player in return like Kemp. He's got the potential to be an elite, Manny Ramirez-like player someday.

That's where I disagree with you and ITE88. I've had the opportunity to see Kemp several times this year both in person and on TV vs the Giants. He's high strung and has a really short temper, tries to force the issue a ton of times, and falls apart in the clutch. No doubt he's talented, I'm not knocking that he is, and if he matures a bit he could be great. But trading a FUTURE HALL OF FAMER who still has a ton left in the tank for Matt Kemp would be ridiculous. And nobody can even try to claim "well, he'll be great a few years from now!!!", anyone claiming that Boston will be patient enough to let that happen is fibbing outta their a$$es.

You sound more like a jealous Dodger hater more than a Jason Bay supporter with that statement.

As of this very moment, Matt Kemp and Jason Bay are on the same level -- Both talented, second-tier outfielders. However, as ITE88 pointed out, there's a six-year differece between the two. That means there is still time for Kemp to improve and become a great player and team leader. I'm not saying it's 100% going to happen, but it is a possability. Jason Bay will NEVER be that player.

And that, my friend, is why you want Matt Kemp.

Oh I'm not supporting Bay at all. I too believe that he's overrated, and feel that Boston got screwed, and would've gotten screwed no matter what on this deal. But the point I'm trying to point out that trading a guy who is a lock for the Hall, who has been the heart of your offense for a LONG time, a HUGE fan favorite, and proven clutch super star for the majority of his career (And prospects!!!) in return for a young, high strung, bad decision maker who hasn't a 10th of the fan appeal that Manny has (He reminds me of a slightly less angry, and maybe SLIGHTLY more talented Milton Bradley) makes zero sense.

[Brian in Boston]

Oh by the way, Manny won't be taking #24 with him to Hollywood as it's been retired by the Dodgers. (Walter Alston)

Maybe "ManRam" can start his Dodgers tenure by assaulting the equipment manager who informs him of that bit of news.

[njmeadowlanders]

Oh by the way, Manny won't be taking #24 with him to Hollywood as it's been retired by the Dodgers. (Walter Alston)

Maybe "ManRam" can start his Dodgers tenure by assaulting the equipment manager who informs him of that bit of news.

I'm also surprised #17 is going to Griffey...#24 is Crede (come on, he couldn't get that from him), #30 is Nick Swisher (again, Griffey could have that if he really wanted it), and #3 is retired.

[w00tness]

I'm also surprised #17 is going to Griffey...#24 is Crede (come on, he couldn't get that from him), #30 is Nick Swisher (again, Griffey could have that if he really wanted it), and #3 is retired.

In our defense; Crede is a huge part of this organization. Granted, he sucks right now, and if he wasn't on the DL they would have probably tried to trade - he's still important to the team and fans. Crede's 24 looks very pretty when he's diving for those hard groundballs at 3B.

Swisher, not so much, but still.