Reds Wear Nuxhall #41..

[Sport]

I was with you right up to this point:

He was so much a part of the Cincinnati Reds that anything less than this as a tribute wouldn't have been enough.

If you didn't grow up listening to Joe Nuxhall or a Reds fan then I don't expect you to understand.

[FiddySicks]

So now if a player doesn't get a "number night" when he dies, it's just like the team saying that he wasn't as important as this guy or that guy. These "tributes" are part of this trend of "look at me, I care so much" sympathy where everyone goes out of there way to act like whoever died was like their brother or father. It is way more self serving and self promotional than most of the crazy antics that some of today's players do. Just wear a black armband, a patch, a small number on the sleeve. Something classy, not marketed.

Thats the exact way I felt about the VT hats last season.

[Gothamite]

If you didn't grow up listening to Joe Nuxhall or a Reds fan then I don't expect you to understand.

I am capable of empathy. I can translate your experience to a similar experience of my own.

I have childhood heroes, too. I wouldn't stage a uniform stunt in a game to honor them, especially when the team already has a really classy tribute planned.

[CZzyzx41]

Here's my 2 cents and it's sure to piss off mac2 and most Reds fans but I'm gonna say it anyways.

There's only one #41 I'll ever remember for the Reds and it ain't Joe Nuxhall.

[Trevis Meseroll]

I was with you right up to this point:

He was so much a part of the Cincinnati Reds that anything less than this as a tribute wouldn't have been enough.

If you didn't grow up listening to Joe Nuxhall or a Reds fan then I don't expect you to understand.

WELL said, i TOTTALY agree w/ that...

[CubsFanBudMan]

So now if a player doesn't get a "number night" when he dies, it's just like the team saying that he wasn't as important as this guy or that guy.

Was going to say this earlier, but didn't. Now that the thread was revived...

BBTV is right. And the Cubs are a perfect example. When Harry Caray died in 1998, they put up a statue for him soon after. Over the years, new ballparks started putting up statues for their great players, including the rival Cardinals and the crosstown White Sox.

The Cubs' highest honor was always retiring a player's number, and it was a select group. For a long time, only Ernie Banks' No. 14 and Billy Williams' No. 26 flew from the foul poles. In 2003, the Cubs made an exception to their Hall of Fame "rule" and retired Ron Santo's No. 10. Ryne Sandberg's No. 23 was retired in 2005 after he was inducted. Personally, that was a big highlight for me because he was my favorite player growing up and a realized how significant it was to get that flag on the foul pole.

The flags had doubled, but it was still only four numbers in 100+ years.

But that didn't stop Jesse Jackson from being outraged a year back or so and campaigning for an Ernie Banks statue. It wasn't because the Cubs had slighted him, as Jackson suggested. In reality it was because "all of the other teams are doing this, so the Cubs need to keep up." Now I have no problem with the Cubs giving Banks a statue, but it's resetting the bar for a player's highest honor. To me, that number on the flagpole was it. Harry Caray did not wear a number and was a broadcaster -- and he died -- so I never felt the statue was a slight to players past or present. The fact that someone nicknamed Mr. Cub is the only player with a statue right now is fitting, so hopefully this won't start a trend, like some other teams that unveil one every year for publicity.

Not trying to slight Nuxhall at all, but there is that tendency for things like this to be overdone and overused. Don't be surprised if Jesse Jackson comes to your town and demands a Chris Sabo statue... or number night.

Another example is "God Bless America" during the seventh inning stretch. At Cubs games it's been moved to before the game, thankfully, on Sundays only. But the Yankees still do it and someone else over the weekend did as well. That move, started in 2001. What gets lost is that patriotic song that is already sung before every game -- "The Star Spangled Banner." Mangled by Roseanne, Carl Lewis, Anastasia before the tied All-Star Game and others, they should have put a new serious emphasis on that song rather than add another one. At least at Wrigley, it also put the traditional "Take Me Out to the Ballgame" in the backseat (third example of "where does it end?" -- celebrity singers at Wrigley) But what happens next national tragedy? A third patriotic song gets added to the mix?

Bottom line, the bar can't keep getting set higher for tributes of these sort. Not saying that the Nuxhall tribute went too far. The fact that they wore them only for pregame seems to have kept them from crossing the line in my mind. But when Joe Morgan, Pete Rose, Johnny Bench, etc. die, what are they going to do? By that time, who knows? Wear it the whole season (and I don't mean on the sleeve)?

Rant over. Sorry. Been holding on to that one for a couple of weeks.

[spyboy1]

So now if a player doesn't get a "number night" when he dies, it's just like the team saying that he wasn't as important as this guy or that guy.

Was going to say this earlier, but didn't. Now that the thread was revived...

BBTV is right. And the Cubs are a perfect example. When Harry Caray died in 1998, they put up a statue for him soon after. Over the years, new ballparks started putting up statues for their great players, including the rival Cardinals and the crosstown White Sox.

The Cubs' highest honor was always retiring a player's number, and it was a select group. For a long time, only Ernie Banks' No. 14 and Billy Williams' No. 26 flew from the foul poles. In 2003, the Cubs made an exception to their Hall of Fame "rule" and retired Ron Santo's No. 10. Ryne Sandberg's No. 23 was retired in 2005 after he was inducted. Personally, that was a big highlight for me because he was my favorite player growing up and a realized how significant it was to get that flag on the foul pole.

The flags had doubled, but it was still only four numbers in 100+ years.

But that didn't stop Jesse Jackson from being outraged a year back or so and campaigning for an Ernie Banks statue. It wasn't because the Cubs had slighted him, as Jackson suggested. In reality it was because "all of the other teams are doing this, so the Cubs need to keep up." Now I have no problem with the Cubs giving Banks a statue, but it's resetting the bar for a player's highest honor. To me, that number on the flagpole was it. Harry Caray did not wear a number and was a broadcaster -- and he died -- so I never felt the statue was a slight to players past or present. The fact that someone nicknamed Mr. Cub is the only player with a statue right now is fitting, so hopefully this won't start a trend, like some other teams that unveil one every year for publicity.

Not trying to slight Nuxhall at all, but there is that tendency for things like this to be overdone and overused. Don't be surprised if Jesse Jackson comes to your town and demands a Chris Sabo statue... or number night.

Another example is "God Bless America" during the seventh inning stretch. At Cubs games it's been moved to before the game, thankfully, on Sundays only. But the Yankees still do it and someone else over the weekend did as well. That move, started in 2001. What gets lost is that patriotic song that is already sung before every game -- "The Star Spangled Banner." Mangled by Roseanne, Carl Lewis, Anastasia before the tied All-Star Game and others, they should have put a new serious emphasis on that song rather than add another one. At least at Wrigley, it also put the traditional "Take Me Out to the Ballgame" in the backseat (third example of "where does it end?" -- celebrity singers at Wrigley) But what happens next national tragedy? A third patriotic song gets added to the mix?

Bottom line, the bar can't keep getting set higher for tributes of these sort. Not saying that the Nuxhall tribute went too far. The fact that they wore them only for pregame seems to have kept them from crossing the line in my mind. But when Joe Morgan, Pete Rose, Johnny Bench, etc. die, what are they going to do? By that time, who knows? Wear it the whole season (and I don't mean on the sleeve)?

Rant over. Sorry. Been holding on to that one for a couple of weeks.

So, you've given this some thought then?

You are right to be concerned about the escalation (and cheapening) of tributes and how it affects what comes afterwards though. Believe me, I know because I root for a hockey team that retired a jersey number "for the fans" before they ever played their first game. How stupid is that?