OPTIMUS THREAD: APPRENTICE

[lets_go_red]

Shiny- template looks pretty good except I thinkthe glove shouldnt block the logo on the front view.

[Cola]

So wait...one of the star logos above isn't going to be the primary?

The star would actually be the secondary logo. The wordmark is the one with the entire top of the building with the text and no star... it's a little tricky.

-sleeve patch (This is the "secondary," which we decided would just be an image with no text, which will be one of the star logos)

To be honest, I just don't think that is the best move for the needs of this client. I think this challenge is one that should stick to the KISS principle. For one, the two logos presented so far just do not flow well together...in fact, I think they contradict each other with the same element in each logo. I feel like one would only be necessary along with a wordmark that fits. Wordmark for the chest, then use the logo on the sleeve. I dunno, maybe I am wrong here...just the feeling I have about what the client needs in the package. For example, where else would you see the primary at physically with the team? Yeah, it could be in the package...but is it practical here?

Anyhow, I hope to have the downtime to jot some ideas down and show tomorrow...

Also, are we sure our color scheme isn't too predictable? I'm not saying I don't like it or that it doesn't fit...just wanted to pose the question.

[gingerbreadmann]

Hey, Cola. I sure wish you coulda been here for the whole week but I hope you enjoyed your vacation.

As for the main wordmark, I think it would look a little bare without the building top on it, but that's just me. I don't see the same contradiction you do, and I'm not the PM by any means, but I'd like to see what you could come up with as well. We still have 36 hours to refine things and you have some great ideas.

Shiny: I was not able to edit the file like I had hoped, and I could not do too much with it. Basically what I think we should do is make the style lines going up the dome red, and I found two free fonts that work better than the one you use, and also with the S's bigger. I couldn't reproduce the same outlines effect you did and integrate it with the dome, so I was going to give examples, but my computer crashed. However I'llshoot you back the same file but with the red colors in place and I highly recommend using either the font "Bullpen" or "Liberation Serif" (bolded) in place of the athletic font you use for "Senators," and the two bigger S's do work like I had hoped so I recommend that. I'll keep working on it nd hopefully make some progress and post it.

[lets_go_red]

ColaCock- I definitely see your point, and I'm torn between the two sides. The current direction is definitely aggressive, but it might not be EXACTLY what the client described...but it does incorporate what they asked for. They might like it even more. On the other hand, the just wordmark approach would be expected and may not "pop" quite as much. Now I'm sure we could create a dandy of a wordmark in the time left should that be the way we go...but I'm on the fence.

Anyways, here are the options I was proposing. The white version will need some clean up but not too much.

[Cola]

Hey, Cola. I sure wish you coulda been here for the whole week but I hope you enjoyed your vacation.

As for the main wordmark, I think it would look a little bare without the building top on it, but that's just me. I don't see the same contradiction you do, and I'm not the PM by any means, but I'd like to see what you could come up with as well. We still have 36 hours to refine things and you have some great ideas.

I see where you are coming from, but to me, a wordmark in most cases should be just that...a wordmark. It doesn't (or shouldn't in most cases) need a logo to spice it up a lot. An accent here or there or something to make it unique could help in some cases...but I don't see it used a lot. Look at MLB logos...most have a logo and then a wordmark. A FEW of them often show both together for a complete look (Cardinals for example off the top of my head)...but in almost all cases, the wordmark can stand alone and look well and the logo from it can do the same. I don't see that happening here with the "primary" chosen so far...can the dome logo be extracted and look well enough on it's own? Maybe so.

I just feel like the star logo is sharp looking and simple...and I envision an arched wordmark right up under it to complete the look and then use that same wordmark on the front of the uniforms. Again, I will play with it tomorrow...can someone post the AI file to the star logo?

[ShinyHubCaps]

To be honest, I just don't think that is the best move for the needs of this client. I think this challenge is one that should stick to the KISS principle. For one, the two logos presented so far just do not flow well together...in fact, I think they contradict each other with the same element in each logo. I feel like one would only be necessary along with a wordmark that fits. Wordmark for the chest, then use the logo on the sleeve.

If you can improve on what we have or bring something new that is better than what we have, please do so. I think that the team did a great job of coming up with ideas, proposing them, and modifying them into what we have. I agree that the same element in each logo may be a little redundant... As good as the secondary looks (especially Troy's new one with the red and white), the Capitol effectively completes the wordmark. I am open to suggestions if you feel that anything needs to be changed. Just in this critical juncture, we don't have much time to second-guess or tweak any new logos, so if you make any modifications or entirely new logos, make sure they're in sufficient quality and something that the team would be likely to agree on, just in case we need to implement them at the last second.

Also, are we sure our color scheme isn't too predictable? I'm not saying I don't like it or that it doesn't fit...just wanted to pose the question.

It's a fair question as colors play such a critical role in an identity. However, despite being predictable, the colors are the most logical (patriotic, state colors of North Carolina, etc.) and convey a certain image. While we played around with other color possibilities, I feel that the colors we have are strong, relevant, and simple. So the colors are predictable, yes, but not too predictable so as to lose their value (in the same way as the Patriots, Nationals, etc.).

Hey, Cola. I sure wish you coulda been here for the whole week but I hope you enjoyed your vacation.

As for the main wordmark, I think it would look a little bare without the building top on it, but that's just me. I don't see the same contradiction you do, and I'm not the PM by any means, but I'd like to see what you could come up with as well. We still have 36 hours to refine things and you have some great ideas.

I see where you are coming from, but to me, a wordmark in most cases should be just that...a wordmark. It doesn't (or shouldn't in most cases) need a logo to spice it up a lot. An accent here or there or something to make it unique could help in some cases...but I don't see it used a lot. Look at MLB logos...most have a logo and then a wordmark. A FEW of them often show both together for a complete look (Cardinals for example off the top of my head)...but in almost all cases, the wordmark can stand alone and look well and the logo from it can do the same. I don't see that happening here with the "primary" chosen so far...can the dome logo be extracted and look well enough on it's own? Maybe so.

I just feel like the star logo is sharp looking and simple...and I envision an arched wordmark right up under it to complete the look and then use that same wordmark on the front of the uniforms. Again, I will play with it tomorrow...can someone post the AI file to the star logo?

One of the considerations for this assignment was to think about the medium for which we are designing. A T-shirt is initially more plain and less conventional than, say, a button-down baseball jersey. GBM provided these shirts as sort of an inspiration, and we unanimously agreed that some type of architecture would work well in the wordmark. I just figure that they made mention of the medium for a reason, possibly encouraging us to do something more bold than writing "Senators" across the chest in cursive. I believe this statement was written into the instructions to avoid doing an MLB-style wordmark.

I do encourage you to try something different with it. However, as this is a team project and voters have unanimously agreed on some logo-enhancements (i.e. architecture) in addition to just text for the wordmark, I'd like you to consider that as well.

I love that logo. Especially against the royal background, you proved that we don't need royal actually in the center fill of the logo. I feel really good about this one, especially since almost everyone contributed to it in some way. It really shows the worth of the team.

[ShinyHubCaps]

Shiny- template looks pretty good except I thinkthe glove shouldnt block the logo on the front view.

Yeah, I was worried about that too. I can easily move it down, but I also wanted to see how high our mark actually appears. Thank you for confirming my suspicion.

[gingerbreadmann]

My only concern with the star is, it kind of looks like the building has legs -- you know? I don't know exactly what could be filled in there but I think something should be, at least partly.

[heernumurr]

Firstly, I like the player template, but are we also going to use a simple t-shirt template? It great to see what the logos would look like in action, but I feel the judges would require them to also be presented in the cleanest way possible.

Shiny, have you thought about getting the stuff onto the Optimus layout yet? I've posted vector and raster versions, but if you have any problems give me a shout.

I understand about the two logos contradicting each other. Perhaps we could try a simpler wordmark just to see if it works. If it does, well then we should use it.

And finally, I'll work on a few different connotations of the star patch, post them then you can see what's what.

[heernumurr]

Here are the four best ideas I think, but if you like something else I can mock that up too.

[mania]

I think that A looks the best, William.

I haven't been around too much lately, and for that I apologize... I've been sick the last couple of days and have been spending more time in bed and less time online than usual.

For the number font, I think something that's similar (although obviously different enough to be considered customized) to the Cowboys Throwback would really accentuate the look we have going on. With regards to the concern for Mac's screen printing idea, I think a faux "triple outline" would be the best, with white/blue/red.

[Cola]

can i please get the AI file of the star combinations?

[Cola]

oh well, i didn't the file so I just LiveTraced it and kind of quickly threw together what I was trying to say as far as making a smooth transition from the primary logo to the uniform. it isn't my greatest and the font may not be perfect, but it kind of gives you an idea of what i meant...

[ShinyHubCaps]

Firstly, I like the player template, but are we also going to use a simple t-shirt template? It great to see what the logos would look like in action, but I feel the judges would require them to also be presented in the cleanest way possible.

Shiny, have you thought about getting the stuff onto the Optimus layout yet? I've posted vector and raster versions, but if you have any problems give me a shout.

I understand about the two logos contradicting each other. Perhaps we could try a simpler wordmark just to see if it works. If it does, well then we should use it.

And finally, I'll work on a few different connotations of the star patch, post them then you can see what's what.

The logos will be presented twice: the first time alone with no template (over the background), and a second time on the template. The representation can afford to not be entirely clean as long as there is an existing, clean version as well. They'll probably also like the files, which I imagine will be straightened away after the fact.

And I think that we will go with A on your secondary sheet. Good job putting that together.

Also Troy, what font is it that you used for your number outline and fill assignment? Or is it original? In the main thread, they stipulated that it should differ to an extent from the original, so I just want to make sure.

[lets_go_red]

The font is Commerce SF. I didn't even try to differeniate it because I saw you assigned that to someone else.

[ShinyHubCaps]

oh well, i didn't the file so I just LiveTraced it and kind of quickly threw together what I was trying to say as far as making a smooth transition from the primary logo to the uniform. it isn't my greatest and the font may not be perfect, but it kind of gives you an idea of what i meant...

No offense, but I think you missed something here. There is no primary. The idea before was that the wordmark acts also as a primary logo (since it's a T-shirt and not restricted to the conventions of MLB jerseys), but there is no standalone primary in the set.

The wordmark on the uniform would have to say "North State Senators."

FINAL ASSIGNMENTS

ColaCock: Please make a wordmark that includes "North State" AND "Senators," and somehow consolidate the outlines beyond what you have in your latest. Be sure to include two versions: one with a red fill, and another with a white fill, using the colors in this logo.

lets_go_red: Please post your numbers in two styles: one with a red fill (like your previous), and one with a white fill. (At this point, I am leaning toward a red fill, but I'd like to see them both and the wordmark with both.) Try to make some modification as well to differentiate it from the original to an acceptable extent.

Anyone else: Please post the CMYK and PANTONE values for the colors in this logo.

Everyone else: If you have any files that are currently in consideration, please post the links for file downloads or e-mail them to Shinyhubcaps@yahoo.com. Any alternate wordmarks or numbers should also be posted for consideration. We only have 16 hours, but I would like as much time as possible to put it all together and tie up any loose ends.

Remember, Mac said that every member of the winning team will get a complementary T-shirt. Of course, the client is priority number one, but the logos should be ones that you are also proud of. That also serves as additional motivation for us to try hard, and I've certainly been impressed with our effort so far. The end is near, so keep up the good work.

[gingerbreadmann]

CMYK Values

Blue: 100-49-0-44

White: 0-0-0-0

Red: 0-100-100-20

EDIT: And I don't have the vector file but if you just fill in the part below the building on the secondary patch with the royal blue OR the red, it looks nice. (I just did it in raster quickly, reminds me of the Arizona flag in a good way). Because now the white creates some terrible negative space and it looks really, really awkward.

Plus I suggest the outer white outline and the implied outline created by the white beveling within the star both be thickened, more the inner one.

Quick Edit #300: Just to add on... I think the star logo right now is still potential. I think Jake nailed the bevel idea, but to me it still looks like a modern-ish sleek-style render of a building but on the background of a clip art old-fashioned star. To me the lines are just too thin and I might even go so far as to suggest that we mess with the shape of it. Maybe make it "fatter?" Would anyone who has it be willing to try any of that?

[lets_go_red]

No luck with changing that font...I'm gonna post those two versions for you in Commerce and also try to find a font to work with. I think that should be everyones primary concern right now.

[lets_go_red]

Here they are...like I said I'm looking for a font to work with.

[ShinyHubCaps]

Good idea. I'm going to make a mock-up on my template with the various pieces that we have now, and in the meantime, you are in charge of numbers. To be quite honest, though, I don't see how these numbers can be customized beyond a certain point. This is such a good font, even shortening the arms or serifs would be sufficient. In fact, I'll try that, but it won't be until tomorrow... the deadline is tomorrow, right? *gulp*