Pete Rose nearing reinstatement?

[rmackman]

I forgot where I read it, but a reporter once said that Pete Rose should be let into the Hall of Fame with a plaque that says: "I'll bet you didn't think I'd be here." I think that's the best idea.

[floydnimrod]

If it was up to me, I'd put him in the HOF, but keep him banned from working for MLB or its teams.

Totally agree. The Reds arent even allowed to retire his number. The hockey team next door to the ballpark retired it.

I never realized that. I assume nobody has worn the number for the Reds, correct?

They've only re-issued it once since he retired: to his son, Pete Rose Jr., for his eleven games with the Reds.

[NJTank]

Not so fast, my friends:

Commish says not under his watch.

This is what is called a trial balloon and it poped quickly

[STL FANATIC]

So Selig won't let Rose back into baseball, but the HOF could (and should) reverse it's rules and put Rose in. I doubt that's going to happen, either, though.

[The_Admiral]

Another year of

"Could Pete Rose finally be reinstated? Signs are vaguely pointing to a possible yes."

"No"

If no betting on baseball is supposed to be The Rule, the adherence to which is paramount in separating competition from staged entertainment, you have to make it stick. It is a shame that the all-time hits leader isn't in Cooperstown. It's also a shame that said leader was such a blithering dummkopf as to knowingly break such an important rule. People don't gamble accidentally.

[BBTV]

Another year of

"Could Pete Rose finally be reinstated? Signs are vaguely pointing to a possible yes."

"No"

If no betting on baseball is supposed to be The Rule, the adherence to which is paramount in separating competition from staged entertainment, you have to make it stick. It is a shame that the all-time hits leader isn't in Cooperstown. It's also a shame that said leader was such a blithering dummkopf as to knowingly break such an important rule. People don't gamble accidentally.

Again, what does having a plaque in a museum have to do with being "in the game"? I'm not sure how the two are related. Especially since the text on the plaque can explain his banishment.

[HedleyLamarr]

Another year of

"Could Pete Rose finally be reinstated? Signs are vaguely pointing to a possible yes."

"No"

If no betting on baseball is supposed to be The Rule, the adherence to which is paramount in separating competition from staged entertainment, you have to make it stick. It is a shame that the all-time hits leader isn't in Cooperstown. It's also a shame that said leader was such a blithering dummkopf as to knowingly break such an important rule. People don't gamble accidentally.

Again, what does having a plaque in a museum have to do with being "in the game"? I'm not sure how the two are related. Especially since the text on the plaque can explain his banishment.

I get the idea behind the museum/fame thought process, and infamous moments would teach folks about all aspects of baseball.

However, I think the Hall of Fame should be a place that only commemorates the positive side of the game. It should be a place that celebrates the game of baseball 24/7/365. The Hall of Fame isn't the be-all, end-all of baseball museums....it's only a celebratory museum that glorifies those moments and the players that played the game.

[BBTV]

Another year of

"Could Pete Rose finally be reinstated? Signs are vaguely pointing to a possible yes."

"No"

If no betting on baseball is supposed to be The Rule, the adherence to which is paramount in separating competition from staged entertainment, you have to make it stick. It is a shame that the all-time hits leader isn't in Cooperstown. It's also a shame that said leader was such a blithering dummkopf as to knowingly break such an important rule. People don't gamble accidentally.

Again, what does having a plaque in a museum have to do with being "in the game"? I'm not sure how the two are related. Especially since the text on the plaque can explain his banishment.

I get the idea behind the museum/fame thought process, and infamous moments would teach folks about all aspects of baseball.

However, I think the Hall of Fame should be a place that only commemorates the positive side of the game. It should be a place that celebrates the game of baseball 24/7/365. The Hall of Fame isn't the be-all, end-all of baseball museums....it's only a celebratory museum that glorifies those moments and the players that played the game.

Fine (I disagree, but that's OK), but then why not let the "stewards" of the Hall (the BBWA and old HOFers) decide what and who to commemorate? If they decide that it's against the mission statement of the Hall to let Pete in, then fine. I don't see why MLB is involved in deciding who can be honored in a privately run institution. If I opened a museum dedicated to Philadelphia sports, and wanted to enshrine Pete, would MLB stop me too?

[The_Admiral]

They did decide to uphold baseball's bans, didn't they? I think they reached that conclusion independent of the commissioner's office.

[BBTV]

They did decide to uphold baseball's bans, didn't they? I think they reached that conclusion independent of the commissioner's office.

If that's the case, then I'm cool with MLB, but the HOF is dumb. If it really stands for something, let those in charge with upholding it's values decide who is worthy - don't cover it with policy.

[STL FANATIC]

Indeed the HOF voters and the veterans committee decided separately to uphold baseballs bans.

Also, as far as keeping the messages in the HOF positive, would you have them totally whitewash over why many black players from the first half of the 20th century didn't play in the same league as most of the rest of the guys in there? Would there be some way to make Jackie Robinson's story as great without the negative activity in baseball (and the country admittedly) that necessitated something that great to happen?

Good often comes with bad, and a lot of times good is better because of bad. That might not apply to Rose. That might just be bad coming with good, but my point is you can't make everything n the HOF a positive thing.

That's my opinion of course.

[HedleyLamarr]

Also, as far as keeping the messages in the HOF positive, would you have them totally whitewash over why many black players from the first half of the 20th century didn't play in the same league as most of the rest of the guys in there? Would there be some way to make Jackie Robinson's story as great without the negative activity in baseball (and the country admittedly) that necessitated something that great to happen?

Good often comes with bad, and a lot of times good is better because of bad. That might not apply to Rose. That might just be bad coming with good, but my point is you can't make everything n the HOF a positive thing.

That's my opinion of course.

If it were just a baseball museum, I would have no problem with mentioning all the scandals and negative issues. Museums are, after all, historical references.

However, a Hall of Fame isn't so much a museum of the sport, it's more of a celebration of the best players and best moments the game has experienced, and a way to honor these best players and the accomplishments they achieved. And, after all, it is an exclusive membership, with committees and voting procedures that decide who and what gets in, and who and what doesn't.

Should Ty Cobb's plaque include: "Noted racist."?

Should the placard with Bonds' bat that he used to hit the 73rd homerun in 2001 mention: "With an assist from a needle stuck in his ass..."?

When you keep a celebratory theme, you tend to steer away from politics of the game (both past and present), whether it be racial exclusions or gambling or steroids, etc. There are plenty of places you go visit, either online or in person, where you can get the full story about baseball's history. A Hall of Fame is merely a place where the best players, contributors, and accomplishments are honored.

[Mac the Knife]

I don't see why MLB is involved in deciding who can be honored in a privately run institution.

Technically speaking, they're not. MLB, as an institution, has no direct influence on the Baseball HOF. Same with the NFL and the Football HOF. There are indirect influences of course, but they are technically speaking separate entities with separate control.

[Saintsfan]

I am coming to this thread late, so apologies for maybe making points that have been made already, but here is my view.

Its just pig headed, blind stupidity to keep the hits leader out of the Hall of Fame. I have no desire to see Rose back in professional baseball, but his hits record is surely seperate from his gambling? I understand this issue is troubling to many, I understand its difficult nature, but I can't see that gambling is any worse than say drug taking. Rose is clearly a player of historic proportions. The hall is not a place to make moral judgements about the players contained within it. Many darker, more evil figures than Rose are recognised by the Hall of Fame. The issue with placing Rose in the hall should not be his character, but his achievements on the Diamond.

If you want to recognize the flaws of those people within the Hall, then I think that is sensible and honest, But the best players in the games history should be in the HoF if it is to mean anything.

[infrared41]

I am coming to this thread late, so apologies for maybe making points that have been made already, but here is my view.

Its just pig headed, blind stupidity to keep the hits leader out of the Hall of Fame. I have no desire to see Rose back in professional baseball, but his hits record is surely seperate from his gambling? I understand this issue is troubling to many, I understand its difficult nature, but I can't see that gambling is any worse than say drug taking. Rose is clearly a player of historic proportions. The hall is not a place to make moral judgements about the players contained within it. Many darker, more evil figures than Rose are recognised by the Hall of Fame. The issue with placing Rose in the hall should not be his character, but his achievements on the Diamond.

If you want to recognize the flaws of those people within the Hall, then I think that is sensible and honest, But the best players in the games history should be in the HoF if it is to mean anything.

Maybe but none of them broke baseball's "golden rule." I get the arguments that Pete Rose should be in the HOF. Still, he knew the rules against gambling and he broke them anyway. Then when he was busted red handed he flat out denied what he would later admit. This isn't like Ty Cobb being a racist. Cobb was an awful human being by most accounts but being an awful person does not harm the integrity of the game. Who's to say that Pete Rose couldn't have had 4,500 hits in his career but he placed bets against himself a few hundred times and only ended up with his current total (you'd think a baseball freak like me would know the actual number off the top of my head.) The point is that Pete Rose's "character flaw" hurt the integrity of the game and his career in much the same fashion that the allegations against Bonds or McGwire hurts their careers.

As ridiculous as this sounds, none of Pete's numbers can be fully trusted after he admitted to betting on baseball. I know he says he never bet against his team or himself but that doesn't change the fact that everything he ever accomplished can be questioned. And it's a fair question. Stellar career or not, baseball can't simply look the other way on Rose's gambling. To do so sets an ugly precedent.

Look, it wasn't like the guy didn't know what the consequences would be if he got caught. If he was that concerned about the HOF he would have never bet on baseball in the first place. I have no problem acknowledging his stats in the hall but I do not think he should get a plaque. Ever. Shoeless Joe was one of the all time greats but he threw a World Series. In my opinion that act overshadows everything else. No one says "Other than that little problem in Brentwood, OJ Simpson is a great guy." Sometimes one wrong act can ruin 4000+ good ones.

[STL FANATIC]

Shoeless Joe was one of the all time greats but he threw accepted money from gamblers who wanted him to throw a World Series.

FYP.

[infrared41]

Shoeless Joe was one of the all time greats but he threw accepted money from gamblers who wanted him to throw a World Series.

FYP.

That doesn't change the fact that he took the cash.

[Saintsfan]

FWIW I would put Bonds and McGwire in the Hall once they have qualified as well.

I think the real problem is where do you draw a line. And to a large extent my feeling is Pete Rose is somewhat unfairly treated because of his fame. I wonder what would have happened if some quiet 3rd relief pitcher on a losing team admitted to gambling on baseball? I know there is some history with long suspensions even lifelong suspensions through betting, but there are also times when it seems like MLB is happy to brush problems under the carpet until it can't.

[HedleyLamarr]

I think the real problem is where do you draw a line. And to a large extent my feeling is Pete Rose is somewhat unfairly treated because of his fame. I wonder what would have happened if some quiet 3rd relief pitcher on a losing team admitted to gambling on baseball? I know there is some history with long suspensions even lifelong suspensions through betting, but there are also times when it seems like MLB is happy to brush problems under the carpet until it can't.

Pete Rose didn't set a precedent.

MLB's been consistent when it comes to the gambling aspect on the game, whether it be wagers placed on certain games or "fixed' results. Every player and manager that's been caught fixing/gambling on games has been banished for life. If you start basing punishments based on the level of fame that player has, you start screwing around with the integrity of the game.

[Your Name Here]

Major League Baseball Rule 21(d): Any player, umpire, or club official or employee, who shall bet any sum whatsoever upon any baseball game in connection with which the bettor has no duty to perform shall be declared ineligible for one year.

Any player, umpire, or club or league official or employee, who shall bet any sum whatsoever upon any baseball game in connection with which the bettor has a duty to perform shall be declared permanently ineligible.

Major League Baseball Rule 21 (g): A printed copy of this Rule shall be kept posted in each clubhouse.

They say that ignorance of the law is no excuse. Well what's your excuse if you walk past the law - written in three languages - every day?