McGwire comes clean

[Wasatch]

The game is yours to view it however you want! If you want to view today?s MLB as a steroid infected league, then so be it! Nobody is telling anyone who or what they can or cannot celebrate. Steroids happened, and it?ll continue to happen from time to time from here on out!

[Saintsfan]

I guess this issue means a lot more than what folks on the first page assumed.

My whole take on this and my feeling on McGwire, Sosa, et al: The summer of '98 was a big fat lie. The entire country was captivated by false "heroes". We were all duped into watching a bogus home run race and it just sucks.

Speaking for myself, I did say that McGwire's achievements had been tarnished, though I was pleased he had fessed up.

BUT having seen bits of the Costas interview, I feel he has said as little as possible, not as much as possible. Thats the bit that now disappoints me.

There's no doubt McGwire could have said more. And he certainly could have said things differently for better PR. But think about all the other steroid admissions, and then consider whether McGwire did "as little as possible." Even if he didn't do nearly enough, he still did more than most. I think people would have seen this interview a lot more positively if he would have said "I can't really say for sure what they did for my numbers." But great athletes believe in their abilities, usually to the point of irrational arrogance, and I think that's case here. Or maybe he's intentionally lying. It's still more than anyone before him has said.

Don't get me wrong, I still think its good he came out and said what he said. I wonder, slightly cynically, how much say the MLB had in what he said. (Given that it was on the MLB network!) So perhaps some of the parsing and some of the slightly naive sounding answers come more from the pens and heads of PR guys in the MLB than they do from the heart of McGwire. But when I said 'as little as possible' I meant he said as little as possible whilst confessing. Saying as little as possible, literally, would have involved not saying anything. So stepping beyond that has to be applauded. And how many of the brickbats he has received since are correctly aimed at him, and how many should be aimed at the MLB, I guess we will never know.

[DustDevil61]

Don't get me wrong, I still think its good he came out and said what he said. I wonder, slightly cynically, how much say the MLB had in what he said. (Given that it was on the MLB network!) So perhaps some of the parsing and some of the slightly naive sounding answers come more from the pens and heads of PR guys in the MLB than they do from the heart of McGwire. But when I said 'as little as possible' I meant he said as little as possible whilst confessing. Saying as little as possible, literally, would have involved not saying anything. So stepping beyond that has to be applauded. And how many of the brickbats he has received since are correctly aimed at him, and how many should be aimed at the MLB, I guess we will never know.

"So, do you want to know the whole truth, or did you want me to hit a few dingers?"

[The_Admiral]

DINGERS

[Sport]

I'm a little angry at myself for not being the first person to make that specific simpsons reference. Also, I'm a little surprised that it took 6 pages for the posters of this board to bring it out.

[Jigga]

It just futher illustrates how The Simpsons has really fallen off.

D'Oh!

[infrared41]

I'd love to see a "clean" player break Bonds' single-season and career records...too bad such a thing does not and has rarely existed, if ever, in the history of professional baseball.

There have been plenty of "clean" players in baseball. The problem with one of them breaking the home run records is that they hit between 10 and 20 home runs a year. What we need to find is the clean player that can play the game for 40-60 years. That guy has a shot.

[The_Admiral]

Here's a serious question - what the hell is wrong with McGwire's neck? Does he have a huge scar, or is it just from aging, or a disease? It's really tough to look at.

I think McGwire's scars on his neck were probably due to acne in his adolescence.

Steroid use causes acne, usually on the neck and back.

[IceCap]

I guess this issue means a lot more than what folks on the first page assumed.

My whole take on this and my feeling on McGwire, Sosa, et al: The summer of '98 was a big fat lie. The entire country was captivated by false "heroes". We were all duped into watching a bogus home run race and it just sucks.

This pretty much sums up my feelings on the subject. The '98 home run race may not have "saved" baseball, but it certainly captivated me. McGwire was the first player I actually ever "rooted" for who wasn't wearing a Jays uniform.

So really, it stings that those memories are now, really, forever tarnished. That being said, McGwire's confession really doesn't have that much of an impact, because it was obvious for years.

Ok Bonds, you're next.

[Wasatch]

Here's a serious question - what the hell is wrong with McGwire's neck? Does he have a huge scar, or is it just from aging, or a disease? It's really tough to look at.

I think McGwire's scars on his neck were probably due to acne in his adolescence.

Steroid use causes acne, usually on the neck and back.

Yes it does but didn?t he have those scars before his steroids days? I don't recall seeing any photos of him in his career where he had severe enough acne to even cause those kinds of scars!

Here he is in Oakland, I think before his steriods days, and the scars are visible.

[BBTV]

Maybe he is part turkey?

[DG_YouKnowWhatThatMeans]

Yes it does but didn?t he have those scars before his steroid days? I don't recall seeing any photos of him in his career where he had severe enough acne to even cause those kinds of scars!

Didn't noted steroid use expert Jose Canseco put to rest that such days even existed? I'm pretty sure that no matter what McGwire's said, he's had a needle in his ass since he signed a pro contract.

[Wasatch]

Yes it does but didn?t he have those scars before his steroid days? I don't recall seeing any photos of him in his career where he had severe enough acne to even cause those kinds of scars!

Didn't noted steroid use expert Jose Canseco put to rest that such days even existed? I'm pretty sure that no matter what McGwire's said, he's had a needle in his ass since he signed a pro contract.

Regardless, what does this have to do with the scars on McGwire's neck? It's never been proven he got those from steroid acne.

[dfwabel]

LaRussa talks to STL sports radio, and is not amused when hearing that fans question how much he really knew about PED use. His quote does contain profanity.

LaRussa on with ESPN 101 in St. Louis

?Well they can believe it or not. I don?t really give a to be honest. If they think that I?m lying, then they think I?m lying. I?ve tried to build my career on credibility and trust, that?s what we do with our players. I?m telling you - we ran a clean program. That?s the way it is. That?s what I say, that?s what I believe. If they believe differently, that?s America, they can believe anything they want to.?

I think that his attitude may cause a few more cats and dogs to stay in shelters.

[Wasatch]

LaRussa talks to STL sports radio, and is not amused when hearing that fans question how much he really knew about PED use. His quote does contain profanity.

LaRussa on with ESPN 101 in St. Louis

?Well they can believe it or not. I don?t really give a to be honest. If they think that I?m lying, then they think I?m lying. I?ve tried to build my career on credibility and trust, that?s what we do with our players. I?m telling you - we ran a clean program. That?s the way it is. That?s what I say, that?s what I believe. If they believe differently, that?s America, they can believe anything they want to.?

I think that his attitude may cause a few more cats and dogs to stay in shelters.

I can?t really blame his attitude. People are going to believe what they want to believe; he shouldn?t have to convince the fans over and over again whenever there?s doubt. The evidence is out there, form your own opinion; there?s no point in repeating the same B.S. over and over again, in the hopes that they?re change their story.

[The_Admiral]

I've tried to build my career on credibility and trust

OH COME ON

[STL FANATIC]

Few things to chime in on as it applies to TLR.

1. Tony La Russa is as loyal to his players as any manager has ever been. When one of his players deserves being called out, HE will handle it, and 9 times out of 10, he will handle it privately. He will not support the media in calling out a player regardless of whether he has or not. In public, he will defend the hell out of his players. To me this creates a case of two rights. The media should continue to call out guys who deserve it, but I think a manager is well served to defend the hell out of those players publically.

2. As much as everyone says they knew it was going on, you also have just about every player who I've heard speak about say they had major suspicions, but they didn't know for sure. They didn't have proof. They say they're not stupid, but that they did SEE it happen. So I don't think it's unreasonable for Tony to have the same viewpoint. Perhaps he should have investigated the suspicions further (but then shouldn't have everyone?), but I don't think it's crazy that he didn't know for a fact about this stuff.

Those two things in mind make me conclude this: 1. Tony really might not have known (for a fact), and 2. no duh he doesn't give a crap what other people are saying.

[The_Admiral]

He was the manager of the Oakland A's, a team that's been associated with steroids from his tenure to the present day. He saw his charges every day for about eight months a year for several years. Tell me how in the world he wouldn't know. If you're alleging that Tony La Russa had no idea what was going on in his clubhouse, then you're conceding that Tony La Russa is one of baseball's worst leaders ever. To that end, you're almost better off saying he's full of crap.

In the interest of equal time, Lou Piniella is an asshat too, by going along with all this and saying that McGwire would've been a first-ballot Hall of Famer without the cloud of steroids. No he wouldn't have, Lou, because he wouldn't have hit all those home runs without that needle lodged in his ass. I hope you're this eager to share your thoughts on baseball by early June when everyone's asking you why your Cubs suck so hard. "Whaddyawahmeedasay."

[STL FANATIC]

By the way, I'm curious how others feel about this.

Yesterday I was listening to an interview on the radio with John Kruk. He talked about knowing that people were using steroids when he played. When asked why he never spoke up, he said things like...

-you knew, but you didn't have proof, and if you were bringing this up to the league/mlbpa, you'd need to name names

-plus you didn't want to be the "snitch"

-you have to remember, these guys who were using were helping us win games

Now, I understand the first reason. I think the second reason shows a lack of character as far as being willing to take a hit to do the right thing, but I still understand that on, too.

But his third reason struck me a bit. I'm not saying playing with teammates who used steroids is half as bad as using them. However, isn't that a little condemning of himself? In some way, doesn't that make him part of it? I knew I had teammates who had to be using, but we were winning?

This isn't sounding nearly as clear as I thought my original reaction was, but I think the discussion from it could still be interesting, so I'm gonna go ahead and post anyways. Thus, Thoughts?

[JayJaxon]

He was the manager of the Oakland A's, a team that's been associated with steroids from his tenure to the present day. He saw his charges every day for about eight months a year for several years. Tell me how in the world he wouldn't know. If you're alleging that Tony La Russa had no idea what was going on in his clubhouse, then you're conceding that Tony La Russa is one of baseball's worst leaders ever. To that end, you're almost better off saying he's full of crap.

That is exactly the way I feel about it. I get that he is supportive of McGwire and that is just fine. But there is no sense in playing innocent. He has no problem taking credit for all the wins that A's team gave him. So why not take responsibility for presiding over a dirty team?

It's a no win for La Russa. He either knew all along and let it fly, or he didn't know at all and is a poor leader.