2011 NHL Playoffs

[IceCap]

Keep the dream alive 'Nucks.

[Corvus]

Kesler absolutely dominated that game.

Also, Nashville, you deserve to lose for those god-awful tootoo whistles in the crowd. That and the complete no show by your top forwards.

By getting to the WCF, this group has now had more success than the Westcoast Express era Canucks ever did.

[HedleyLamarr]

Depends.

Sure, when a Canadian team looks like they have a chance to bring it home we have a tendency to do an "us vs them" thing. Still though, those American teams that have won the Stanley Cup from 1994 to 2010? They were all mostly Canadian in player makeup. So it's not like our reputation as a great hockey country is hurt by the Tampa Bay Lightning defeating the Calgary Flames in the Finals. The Lightning won it with a mostly Canadian roster.

Not to single you out, but this is the dumbest reason why to root for a team in the playoffs.

And then, when the Canadian team loses, you spin it to where "Oh well, that American-based team is made up of mostly Canadian-born players, so the Cup comes home to Canada anyway!".

It's misguided nationalistic pride. Dismiss it however you please, but it's not going to change the fact that it's a dumb reason why to root for a particular team.

[OMMF]

Depends.

Sure, when a Canadian team looks like they have a chance to bring it home we have a tendency to do an "us vs them" thing. Still though, those American teams that have won the Stanley Cup from 1994 to 2010? They were all mostly Canadian in player makeup. So it's not like our reputation as a great hockey country is hurt by the Tampa Bay Lightning defeating the Calgary Flames in the Finals. The Lightning won it with a mostly Canadian roster.

Not to single you out, but this is the dumbest reason why to root for a team in the playoffs.

And then, when the Canadian team loses, you spin it to where "Oh well, that American-based team is made up of mostly Canadian-born players, so the Cup comes home to Canada anyway!".

It's misguided nationalistic pride. Dismiss it however you please, but it's not going to change the fact that it's a dumb reason why to root for a particular team.

Agreed.

Also, when the Red Wings won in 2008, Canadians were a minority on that team. In fact, of the top-12 scorers, there were as many Americans as there were Canadians: one.

Even the Blackhawks roster last year was an almost 50/50 mix of Canadians and non-Canadians. And the 2003 Devils. And the 2001 Avalanche. And the 1999 Stars. And....

[GFB]

Believe me, there are plenty of Red Wing fan holdovers in Columbus. It's part of what makes the Red Wings so annoying. Every time the two teams play there's at least 5,000 Red Wings fans in attendance. In many cases I've seen people at a game wearing Blue Jackets stuff and then the very next game against Detroit they're in Red Wings gear. It's irritating as . One of my favorite Jackets games I've ever been to was a 1-0 overtime victory over Detroit, specifically because the several thousand Red Wings fans had literally nothing to cheer for.

As for me, I've hated the Red Wings since 1996, so pre Blue Jackets fandom. I didn't like their style of play, or their uniforms, or Mike Vernon and it's what drew me to the Avalanche.

Since the Blue Jackets came into the league my disdain for the franchise has grown. I'm jealous of their success and how spoiled their fans are. It's like I say about Steelers fans, it's easy to be a fan of the Red Wings. Red Wing fans my age don't know what it's like to be a fan of a crappy team. They don't even know what it's like to not make the playoffs and I hate them for that. I hated them "yankee-fying" their team in 2002. I hate them for sweeping the Blue Jackets out of the playoffs without even trying. I hate Holmstrom and Franzen and that their two best players were late round steals. I hate them for being the smartest team in the NHL both on the ice and in scouting and drafting.

I'm not over-embellishing how I feel. I can't wait until the Wings suck again, but I have a feeling I'll be waiting for a long time.

For the record though, I pulled for the Wings in both of the worst case scenario finals. I have a lot of respect for how the Red Wings operate and I would always rather Detroit get a title than the city of Pittsburgh.

I don't intend to get in the way of all the Red Wings hate being thrown around, but I have two issues with what you said:

1 - You have to realize that most Red Wings fans are also fans of the Lions or Tigers, so while we have high expectations, we do know how it feels to suffer through ineptitude for long periods of time.

2 - You hated the Wings for "yankee-fying" their team in 2002, but you didn't seem to have a problem with Avs doing pretty much the same thing, yet you were "drawn" to them...

Sorry for interrupting, please resume.

1. But when it comes to hockey your hockey lives are pretty easy. That's all I was talking about.

2. By the time the Avs really started loading up with free agents the Blue Jackets were my team and I had abandoned Colorado.

Aside from Kariya and Selanne what UFAs did Colorado go after? Most of LaCroix's handy work was done at the draft and trade deadline.

Who were both huge busts with their worst seasons in Colorado.

Bourque, Fleury, Kasparitis, etc... were all trades.

It's not different any different than the Wings. I believe Brett Hull and Luc Robitaille were the only Wings major signings from that year, and Robitaille was a major bust. But Hasek, Chelios, Shanahan, Murphy, Lang, etc.. were all traded for.

Oh, and congrats to those crazy Canucks. It's nice to see good things happen to a quality franchise.

[IceCap]

Depends.

Sure, when a Canadian team looks like they have a chance to bring it home we have a tendency to do an "us vs them" thing. Still though, those American teams that have won the Stanley Cup from 1994 to 2010? They were all mostly Canadian in player makeup. So it's not like our reputation as a great hockey country is hurt by the Tampa Bay Lightning defeating the Calgary Flames in the Finals. The Lightning won it with a mostly Canadian roster.

Not to single you out,

But you are aren't you?

but this is the dumbest reason why to root for a team in the playoffs.

Lets not pretend that this isn't a two way street. I'm willing to guess that you were pulling for the Lightning, 'Canes, and/or Ducks when they played the Flames, Oilers, and Senators. Now I know you're dating a girl who's from Vancouver, so should the Canucks make it to the Finals I bet you will be rooting for them (and I wouldn't blame you).

Bigger picture though? Lets not pretend that you (a general "you" to American hockey fans) don't get caught up in Canada vs USA when it's a Canadian team vs an American team in the Finals.

And then, when the Canadian team loses, you spin it to where "Oh well, that American-based team is made up of mostly Canadian-born players, so the Cup comes home to Canada anyway!".

It's really a matter of perspective. Do I want to see a Canadian team win the Cup? Yes. If one doesn't, though, I'm not all that broken up about it because the team that did win the Cup likely did it with a strong contingent of Canadians. So really, our status as one of, if not the, premier hockey nations isn't damaged. It'll be nice to see the Cup come back to a Canadian team, but even if it doesn't we're still one of the best hockey countries out there. You can call it spin, I prefer to look at it as "it'll be nice when it happens, but I won't lose sleep over it."

It's misguided nationalistic pride. Dismiss it however you please, but it's not going to change the fact that it's a dumb reason why to root for a particular team.

Like I said in the quote of mine you butchered, the Olympics are where it's really at when it comes to nationalistic pride and hockey.

Also, for clarity's sake, let me reiterate that the "Canada vs US" thing that happens when a Canadian team meats an American team isn't a one way street. I know for a fact that there were American fans rooting for the American teams when both countries had representation in the Finals, and I'm willing to bet that in at least one of those instances you wanted the American team to win because, well, they were the American team.

Same goes to my homie OMMF.

Even the Blackhawks roster last year was an almost 50/50 mix of Canadians and non-Canadians. And the 2003 Devils. And the 2001 Avalanche. And the 1999 Stars. And....

The 1999 Stars Stanley Cup roster had 16 Canadians and 11 non-Canadians.

The 2001 Avalanche Stanley Cup roster had had 12 Canadians and 10 non-Canadians.

The 2003 Devils Stanley Cup roster had 13 Canadians and 13 non-Canadians, with Canadian making up the single largest national group.

The 2009-10 Blackhawks roster came out to 20 Canadians and 14 non-Canadians, with seven Americans.

So...yeah. We produce a lot of good hockey players. Go us. I think a Mountie ran over OMMF's puppy when he was a kid or something.

[The_Admiral]

I'd like to see a Canadian team win the Stanley Cup as long as it isn't the goddamn Vancouver Canucks. I say this, however, knowing that a Calgary Flames parade route would not include Toronto and so forth. That's stupid.

[Sport]

I was still okay when the Toronto Blue Jays won the world series because those teams were comprised mostly of american players.

[Lee.]

How okay will you be when a team wins with mostly COMMUNIST CUBAN PLAYERS

[OMMF]

Depends.

Sure, when a Canadian team looks like they have a chance to bring it home we have a tendency to do an "us vs them" thing. Still though, those American teams that have won the Stanley Cup from 1994 to 2010? They were all mostly Canadian in player makeup. So it's not like our reputation as a great hockey country is hurt by the Tampa Bay Lightning defeating the Calgary Flames in the Finals. The Lightning won it with a mostly Canadian roster.

Not to single you out,

But you are aren't you?

but this is the dumbest reason why to root for a team in the playoffs.

Lets not pretend that this isn't a two way street. I'm willing to guess that you were pulling for the Lightning, 'Canes, and/or Ducks when they played the Flames, Oilers, and Senators. Now I know you're dating a girl who's from Vancouver, so should the Canucks make it to the Finals I bet you will be rooting for them (and I wouldn't blame you).

Bigger picture though? Lets not pretend that you (a general "you" to American hockey fans) don't get caught up in Canada vs USA when it's a Canadian team vs an American team in the Finals.

And then, when the Canadian team loses, you spin it to where "Oh well, that American-based team is made up of mostly Canadian-born players, so the Cup comes home to Canada anyway!".

It's really a matter of perspective. Do I want to see a Canadian team win the Cup? Yes. If one doesn't, though, I'm not all that broken up about it because the team that did win the Cup likely did it with a strong contingent of Canadians. So really, our status as one of, if not the, premier hockey nations isn't damaged. It'll be nice to see the Cup come back to a Canadian team, but even if it doesn't we're still one of the best hockey countries out there. You can call it spin, I prefer to look at it as "it'll be nice when it happens, but I won't lose sleep over it."

It's misguided nationalistic pride. Dismiss it however you please, but it's not going to change the fact that it's a dumb reason why to root for a particular team.

Like I said in the quote of mine you butchered, the Olympics are where it's really at when it comes to nationalistic pride and hockey.

Also, for clarity's sake, let me reiterate that the "Canada vs US" thing that happens when a Canadian team meats an American team isn't a one way street. I know for a fact that there were American fans rooting for the American teams when both countries had representation in the Finals, and I'm willing to bet that in at least one of those instances you wanted the American team to win because, well, they were the American team.

Same goes to my homie OMMF.

Even the Blackhawks roster last year was an almost 50/50 mix of Canadians and non-Canadians. And the 2003 Devils. And the 2001 Avalanche. And the 1999 Stars. And....

The 1999 Stars Stanley Cup roster had 16 Canadians and 11 non-Canadians.

The 2001 Avalanche Stanley Cup roster had had 12 Canadians and 10 non-Canadians.

The 2003 Devils Stanley Cup roster had 13 Canadians and 13 non-Canadians, with Canadian making up the single largest national group.

The 2009-10 Blackhawks roster came out to 20 Canadians and 14 non-Canadians, with seven Americans.

So...yeah. We produce a lot of good hockey players. Go us. I think a Mountie ran over OMMF's puppy when he was a kid or something.

you're hilarious. You know who I root for in every international tournament? Canada. I root for the Bruins to win the Cup no matter who they play, American or not. Otherwise, if it's Edmonton, Calgary, Ottawa or Vancouver, I'm pulling for the Canadian team. Hell, who the would root for Tampa over Calgary? Canada was due. Point is, you don't know so don't try to pretend you do. It's fine you want to be defensive but don't use offense you can't back up.

Also, as far as your stats go, I counted players who actually played in the playoffs or more than 10 games of that season. Even you know that no roster has 34 people on it so your Blackhawks math is way off. And your definition of mostly must be different than mine. I don't consider mostly to be a simple majority. To me, mostly means almost all. Maybe Canadians have a different definition?

[ninersdd]

Injuries tonight: Franzen and Clowe are out for Game 6 tonight.

[The Six]

I must say the Ducks winning the Cup would have meant a lot more to me if the players were actually native Californians. My deepest regret.

[NEW.ERA]

Isn't like Brooks Orpik the only active player from California and he's from San Fran.

[OMMF]

Isn't like Brooks Orpik the only active player from California and he's from San Fran.

Blum from the Predators is a Long Beach kid.

[NEW.ERA]

Isn't like Brooks Orpik the only active player from California and he's from San Fran.

Blum from the Predators is a Long Beach kid.

That was the other one I was thinking of and I'm sure there are others. Come to think of it Flames prospect Mitch Wahl is from Long Beach.

More and more kids are coming from that area and that means really good things.

[OMMF]

Isn't like Brooks Orpik the only active player from California and he's from San Fran.

Blum from the Predators is a Long Beach kid.

That was the other one I was thinking of and I'm sure there are others. Come to think of it Flames prospect Mitch Wahl is from Long Beach.

More and more kids are coming from that area and that means really good things.

Yeah, growing numbers of California kids. Look at the rosters of the WHL teams and you see a good handful. And the one relevant to this discussion, Emerson Etem of the Medicine Hat Tigers was drafted by Anaheim and he is also from Long Beach. Good that a California player can play for a California team.

Another state to watch is Texas. Myers from the Sabres is a Texas product and Seattle has a top-100 ranked prospect from Texas who should go in this year's draft.

[Lee.]

In Ice Cap's defense, if there is one, he takes the Canadian Inferiority Complex to heart.

[IceCap]

you're hilarious.

I'm curious about something. Not in a snarky way, honestly curious. What did I do to piss you off again? You seem to have this weird desire to try and get under my skin, and considering I don't think I ever said a thing, bad or good, to you before you started doing that, I'm just curious. What's up? I ask because frankly I don't really care for maintaining internet jihads against people I may have pissed off inadvertently years ago.

You know who I root for in every international tournament? Canada. I root for the Bruins to win the Cup no matter who they play, American or not. Otherwise, if it's Edmonton, Calgary, Ottawa or Vancouver, I'm pulling for the Canadian team. Hell, who the would root for Tampa over Calgary? Canada was due. Point is, you don't know so don't try to pretend you do. It's fine you want to be defensive but don't use offense you can't back up.

From my position? I draw my conclusions based on observation. You really don't seem to like the idea of moving the Coyotes back to Winnipeg, despite the fact that it is a superior option to Phoenix in every way. You seem to be playing the "Canadians aren't that essential to a championship team" card here. Those two observations, mixed with late night posting (2:26 am here when I made that post) tend to lead to the conclusion that a Mountie kicked your dog or something. If I'm off base, I apologize.

Also, as far as your stats go, I counted players who actually played in the playoffs or more than 10 games of that season.

I realize that it's not the most reliable source of information, but here's where I got my breakdown for those teams.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_Stanley_Cup_Finals#Dallas_Stars_1999_Stanley_Cup_Champions

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_Stanley_Cup_Finals#Colorado_Avalanche_2001_Stanley_Cup_champions

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_Stanley_Cup_Finals#New_Jersey_Devils_2003_Stanley_Cup_champions

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Stanley_Cup_Finals#Chicago_Blackhawks_2

Even you know that no roster has 34 people on it so your Blackhawks math is way off.

Even I know? I've been playing/watching hockey for close to two decades at this point. I'll throw some of your advice back at you. You don't know, so don't pretend you do.

As for the numbers, it was late (again 2:26 am my time) when I posted those 'Hawks numbers, and I miscounted. The total is 16 Canadians and 16 non-Canadians, with Canadians making up the largest national group.

And your definition of mostly must be different than mine. I don't consider mostly to be a simple majority. To me, mostly means almost all. Maybe Canadians have a different definition?

I consider mostly to be a simple majority. I consider almost all to mean almost all. The point I was making was that Canadians either make up the majority of NHL teams or are the largest single national group on NHL teams. What does that have to do with rooting for Canadian teams vs American ones in the Finals? Well why would a Canadian want to see a Canadian team win the Cup? To see the country do well hockey-wise.

Well ok. So it's nice to see. An American team winning the Cup, however, doesn't speak ill of Canada as a hockey nation, however, because the players on that American team are either mostly (ie a majority) Canadian in makeup or Canadians make up the single largest national group. So even if a sunbelt team does win it, it isn't some great blow to Canada's reputation a hockey nation.

Anyway we obviously don't get along. I don't know what I did on my end to piss you off, but whatever it is, I apologize. I'm not, however, going to engage in an innerwebs pissing match with you any longer. I'm not going to go out of my way to piss you off, or even argue with you. If you're uninterested in burying whatever hatchet there is to bury, whatever. Just afford me the same benign neglect I intend to show you.

In Ice Cap's defense, if there is one, he takes the Canadian Inferiority Complex to heart.

You take what you can get

[The_Admiral]

So, what we've established here on Page 70 of the 2011 Stanley Cup thread is that a large plurality or even a majority of NHL players are...Canadian! Stay tuned for Page 73, where we explain what icing is!

[NEW.ERA]

Well NBC will be forced to show the Canucks at least once in the Conference Finals. Game 4 be it in San Jose or Detroit will be on the Peacock Brand.