2012 MLB Season

[njmeadowlanders]

No but that was OK because it didn't go against the Cardinals.

[STL FANATIC]

When the Cardinals place an asterisk next to their 2011 World Series title after Ron Kulpa's bad call in Game 3, the Mets will place an asterisk next to Johan's no-hitter.

There were blown calls throughout that game, both ways, and it was a blow out. But I do think it's another good example of needing instant replay. The Cardinals more directly (which is to say it's never directly, but in this case it was close) than any other team in history lost a World Series on an obviously blown call, in fact.

The thing is, at the very least in those cases you can always pull out the BS lines like "well, it evens out" or "well, they still had a chance to overcome it." I think those are crap, because the calls should be right. You shouldn't have to "overcome" a bad call or wait for the calls to "even out."

But with a no-hitter, that doesn't even apply. It either was or it wasn't. Dayn Perry said it perfectly in the article I linked before.

It's one thing to dismiss "human element" blown calls within the scope of wins and losses, but it takes even more willful nonsense to do so in a narrowly defined outcome like a no-hitter. While an improperly ruled foul-fair, safe-out, ball-strike in what turns out to be a one-run game is merely a contributing factor, a hit that wasn't properly ruled a hit in a "no-hitter" undermines the entire thing, ipso facto.

[cmm]

If the Game 3 call wasn't blown, the score at the end of the inning would have been 1-0 instead of 5-0 (assuming the rest of the inning played out as it did). The bad call changed the entire game--had it been made correctly, it might not have been a blowout or a Cards' win.

But the lesson here is that bad calls happen. Cardinal fans should be grateful (for lack of a better word) that a call went against them in a regular season game where they weren't doing much offensively anyway (and the other team scored 8) and not in a close postseason game, like in 1985.

[STL FANATIC]

If you want to call me a whiner, I don't care. Easier to do that then pay attention to a real point. But, if you want to have a real conversation about what this mistake brings up, let's do it.

Here's the reason I think replay in baseball could go so much better than football if implemented correctly: the calls are more straightforward. In football, you don't usually see the straightforward calls blown. Did a guy do a "football move"? Did the ball move after hitting the ground while it was in his hands or did the guy just move it? Did the nose of the ball cross over the invisible plane that goes straight up?

I hesitate to calls those "judgments" because there is a right and wrong answer usually, but the problem with those sorts of things is that replay isn't enough to make the answer obvious. It's hard for human eyes to make those determinations no matter how many times they see it.

The only comparable in baseball is the strike zone (and maybe "did he swing or not?"), and I'm not arguing for instant replay on balls and strikes. I am in favor of having an automated strike zone, but I'm open to the idea that the technology isn't quite there. I think it has to be pretty damn close, though. But I digress.

There is enough technology to make the other calls. Home runs. Fair/foul. Catch/no-catch. Safe/out. Pretty much every single one of those can be determined by slowing it down to frame-by-frame (if necessary) and maybe seeing two angles. There's not going to be a lot of room for debate over it.

I've slowed a lot of calls down over the last few years. And I've done it both ways. I know this will blow your mind, but I'm not a total homer. I frequently acknowledge when the Cardinals catch a break. I don't go on rants over it, but I always acknowledge it and to my customary twitter hashtag of #InstantReplay. So anyways, I've slowed a lot of calls down, and I can't remember one time where I've come away going "I just can't tell." You can pretty much always tell in baseball.

Now, the way they integrate it is also important. They can't do it the way they currently handle homers. It's a joke. They take 2 minutes to discuss whether or not to review it. Then they "hustle" into the dugout to ALL look at the play. They watch it for a bit. Then they get back out there and finally make the cal. It takes 3-5 minutes to make a call that is almost always known to the fans after 15 seconds. Can't have that.

I'm also not a fan of the challenge system. I don't think we should ever limit the amount of bad calls you can get fixed. We should fix everything we can.

So that's where I say you have a fifth umpire watching the plays. Almost 95% of the time play will go on uninterrupted. Occasionally, he'll have to buzz down and say the call needs overturned. And even less occasionally, he'll have to buzz down and say hold up a minute, I need to watch this a couple more times. And then he'll make the call and they move on.

And as far as how it affects the plays, you just come up with a set of rules. If a ball is ruled a catch or foul, obviously you just send the runners back (though, I'd give the umpire the judgement call to allow runners to advance on a tag-up if it fit the situation). If it's ruled the other way, then I would say you just let every runner advance a single base. In some cases you'd be taking a base away, but it's the fairest option.

Suddenly, you're getting calls right, not adding much if any time to the game (remember, half the arguments are gone now), and you can feel good about the outcomes.

It's high time to do it, and the excuses not to just keep getting lamer.

[NJTank]

Only on the Mets can this happen

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/blog/eye-on-baseball/19238506/johan-santana-celebration-injures-one-met

Hard to believe dept: I heard Elvin Ramirez,called up yest by #Mets, hurt hamstring diving into Johan no-no pile, likely DL bound. #unreal.

[zpqmaowl]

Only on the Mets can this happen

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/blog/eye-on-baseball/19238506/johan-santana-celebration-injures-one-met

Hard to believe dept: I heard Elvin Ramirez,called up yest by #Mets, hurt hamstring diving into Johan no-no pile, likely DL bound. #unreal.

Ha. Ha. Ha.

But really, that sucks.

[NJTank]

Only on the Mets can this happen

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/blog/eye-on-baseball/19238506/johan-santana-celebration-injures-one-met

Hard to believe dept: I heard Elvin Ramirez,called up yest by #Mets, hurt hamstring diving into Johan no-no pile, likely DL bound. #unreal.

Ha. Ha. Ha.

But really, that sucks.

Just think now he has a chance to be the next Moonlight Graham if he dont return.

[njmeadowlanders]

Only on the Mets can this happen

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/blog/eye-on-baseball/19238506/johan-santana-celebration-injures-one-met

Hard to believe dept: I heard Elvin Ramirez,called up yest by #Mets, hurt hamstring diving into Johan no-no pile, likely DL bound. #unreal.

Ha. Ha. Ha.

But really, that sucks.

Just think now he has a chance to be the next Moonlight Graham if he dont return.

Except he never played, at least Moonlight got an inning in the field.

In fact, if you look up "Joe Hietpas" he was a Met who caught the 9th inning of the final game a few seasons back, and that 1 inning in the field was his only major league experience.

Also, this happened to Kendry Morales celebrating a walk-off homer and it happened to one of the Marlins (I want to say Morrison? but I'm not sure) last year.

[cmm]

Chris Coghlan

[njmeadowlanders]

Yeah, that's right. It rings a bell.

Also, turns out it was RAMON Ramirez that was hurt, not ELVIN Ramirez. Different person. Ramon has pitched for the Giants and came to the Mets via trade this winter. He's been bad of late though, so it's not a big blow.

[zpqmaowl]

R.A. Dickey is 24 outs away from a no-hitter.

[njmeadowlanders]

R.A. Dickey is 24 outs away from a no-hitter.

If nothing else they're probably approaching the franchise record for most consecutive hitless innings.

For all I know they could've played a 22 inning game with 12 or 13 in a row without a hit.

And Beltran doubles leading off the 2nd...

[STL FANATIC]

Nope. Beltran got a hit again.

This one counts.

[njmeadowlanders]

SNY's crew having fun with it (games on network TV today but same production crew):

[Island_Style]

Hey, Phillies! Ease up, would ya? We get it. You own the Marlins. Two things are certain when we play the Phillies. Losses and rain delays.

[njmeadowlanders]

Dickey threw a measley 7 hit shutout to follow up the no-no.

[maz]

Looked at my phone and couldn't believe the Pirates/Brewers score last night.

Three cheers for role reversal!

Let's hope it continues tonight. Finally being able to win in Milwaukee feels great.

[infrared41]

Wow, Cardinals fans. Be more predictable.

Oh-Hi-O!

It's OH! - IO! actually but that hardly matters...

If you want to call me a whiner, I don't care. Easier to do that then pay attention to a real point. But, if you want to have a real conversation about what this mistake brings up, let's do it.

A question to both of you, and keep in mind that I'm one of the few, (quite possibly the only) non-Cardinals fans on these boards that actually likes the Cardinals and their fans. In the CCSLC lexicon, the Cards are my "NL" team or my "third" favorite when X, Y, and Z are blah blah blah, or whatever term we're using for a team we happen to enjoy watching but don't have 100% allegiance to. (In fact, I'm wearing a Cardinals t-shirt as I type this.) As much as this will piss off a lot of people, I actually believe you all are the best fans in baseball. I just want to make it clear that I'm not piling on. So with that in mind...

If the call had gone the other way and the Cardinals got the break that led to a no-hitter last night, would either of you be as upset over the blown call as you are right now? The reason I ask is this; if the lack of replay is indeed the travesty you're making it out to be, STL, why aren't you on here every day making the same case? Calls get blown in every sport, every day. Where's the daily outrage?

Long story short, I think the lack of the same passion when it doesn't involve your team is what's behind all the bashing the two of you are receiving over this. Just my opinion.

[1990hornet]

IMO, people who don't want (expanded) replay have no right to be complaining about the fair/foul call on that ball hit by Beltran. And also, IMO, it doesn't taint the no-no. I'm sure there was another no-no with a blown call, I don't see them with asterisks.

[maz]

Looked at my phone and couldn't believe the Pirates/Brewers score last night.

Three cheers for role reversal!

Let's hope it continues tonight. Finally being able to win in Milwaukee feels great.

Spoke too soon.