2012 NFL Season Thread

[Kramerica Industries]

I suspect his career is going to end against one foe that he and his 'mates have never been able to conquer:

EDIT: Oh jeez. I hope this is interpreted as not being able to beat Peyton Manning, and not a matter of not being able to beat the Colts. Given, you know, that the Ravens are facing the Colts this week.

[infrared41]

(By the way, 'Red...is it still too early for that annual HoF discussion? )

Nope. Let's get the Gruber bandwagon rolling. And yeah, Ray Lewis is a no doubt about it, first ballot hall of famer.

[pmoehrin]

The only question I have with Lewis' HOF bid is whether or not he will get in on the first try. I could see some writers holding what happened at the Super Bowl in Atlanta against him. I don't think it will prevent him from getting in eventually. I can't see them saying no to Ray Lewis while OJ Simpson is still in, but it may not be a slam dunk the first time around.

[rvrdgsfn]

This was always a day that I dreaded but a day that I knew would happen, as much as I would like for him to have one or two more seasons... I figured after the torn tricep, he was done. Despite all this, Ray Lewis will always be one of my favorite Ravens if not, one of my all time favorite players. He's not only destined to be in the Hall, I wouldn't be surprised if he becomes a coach.

I hope we send him out in style, we can always dream.

Thank you Ray.

[infrared41]

The only question I have with Lewis' HOF bid is whether or not he will get in on the first try. I could see some writers holding what happened at the Super Bowl in Atlanta against him. I don't think it will prevent him from getting in eventually. I can't see them saying no to Ray Lewis while OJ Simpson is still in, but it may not be a slam dunk the first time around.

It won't be an issue. If memory serves, Pro Football HOF voters are supposed to look solely at a candidates on field performance. They don't have to consider character and integrity like their baseball counterparts do. Not to mention that one short year after Atlanta, the media were slobbering all over Ray Lewis when the Ravens made the Super Bowl. Ray's PR team and a willing media did a pretty good job of quickly putting the Atlanta incident in the rear-view mirror. It seems to be all but forgotten these days.

[pmoehrin]

The only question I have with Lewis' HOF bid is whether or not he will get in on the first try. I could see some writers holding what happened at the Super Bowl in Atlanta against him. I don't think it will prevent him from getting in eventually. I can't see them saying no to Ray Lewis while OJ Simpson is still in, but it may not be a slam dunk the first time around.

It won't be an issue. If memory serves, Pro Football HOF voters are supposed to look solely at a candidates on field performance. They don't have to consider character and integrity like their baseball counterparts do. Not to mention that one short year after Atlanta, the media were slobbering all over Ray Lewis when the Ravens made the Super Bowl. Ray's PR team and a willing media did a pretty good job of quickly putting the Atlanta incident in the rear-view mirror. It seems to be all but forgotten these days.

Well if character isn't an issue then why are guys like Cris Carter not in the Hall and others like Gastineau will probably never even be seriously considered.

The criteria can say anything. Character does matter. To what extent it will be held against Lewis, I don't know. i do think Lewis had a good enough career and is a large enough personality to overcome it and get in on the first try, but I wouldn't be shocked if some writers didn't vote him in the first time around just to make a point.

[Cujo]

While I wish Ray well, I don't believe that this is it for him. Dude is just too good, too elite to hang 'em up right now. IMO, he trying to light a fire under the Ravens, seeing if they can "Win one for Ray". I guess we'll just have to see what happens next August.

[Gary]

While I wish Ray well, I don't believe that this is it for him. Dude is just too good, too elite to hang 'em up right now. IMO, he trying to light a fire under the Ravens, seeing if they can "Win one for Ray". I guess we'll just have to see what happens next August.

Let's just hope he either says he changes his mind and stays with the team and doesn't become the next Brett Favre.

[The_Admiral]

Hall of Fame predictions? I'll take a stab at it!

or wait wait wait

Ray Lewis? It'd be knife to see him enshrined!

or wait

Ray Lewis is responsible for a murder and covered it up!

[infrared41]

Well if character isn't an issue then why are guys like Cris Carter not in the Hall and others like Gastineau will probably never even be seriously considered.

Because neither of them had HOF careers would be my guess. Carter is borderline and Gastineau has about as much business being inducted into the HOF as I do.

[rams80]

Well if character isn't an issue then why are guys like Cris Carter not in the Hall and others like Gastineau will probably never even be seriously considered.

What's Cris Carter's character issue?

[infrared41]

Well if character isn't an issue then why are guys like Cris Carter not in the Hall and others like Gastineau will probably never even be seriously considered.

What's Cris Carter's character issue?

I know he had some issues with the Eagles but they weren't at the "I was around for a double murder" level.

[Gothamite]

Well if character isn't an issue then why are guys like Cris Carter not in the Hall and others like Gastineau will probably never even be seriously considered.

Because neither of them had HOF careers would be my guess. Carter is borderline and Gastineau has about as much business being inducted into the HOF as I do.

Okay, my memory must be fuzzy - what was Chris Carter's character flaw? I understand most sports writers think he's a jerk, but that's not anywhere near Ray Lewis levels of scumbaggery.

[tBBP]

Cris Carter had "character issues" after Philly?

I thought All He Did Was Catch Touchdowns.

[pmoehrin]

Okay, my memory must be fuzzy - what was Chris Carter's character flaw? I understand most sports writers think he's a jerk, but that's not anywhere near Ray Lewis levels of scumbaggery.

The drug use and what happened with him being ruled ineligible at Ohio State.

He came very close to being kicked out of the league and I still think that's still fresh in alot of writers minds. I don't agree with the mentality of that and I'd put Cris Carter above roughly half the receivers in the Hall right now which is what makes it so odd that he hasn't gotten in yet, especially after they just stuck Michael Irvin in. I don't think there's many people out there that would take Irvin over Carter and that's probably the biggest reason why many people including are asking is there something else going on here.

We'll see what happens this year with Carter. Its the toughest Hall of Fame to predict in terms of who will be inducted and who won't especially now that there's going to be a bit of a lull with quarterbacks in the coming years and I also think writers are still to reevaluate the idea of induction half a team's roster into the Hall. I don't think your going to be looking back on the 2000's Patriots or mid 90's Cowboys as teams with 6, 7 maybe even 8 Hall of Famers on them and I don't think it has anything to do with those teams being any less talented then the 60's Packers or 70's Steelers. Just because you have 3 rings doesn't automatically make you a great player. That mentality I think is starting to win out. I was really surprised to see guys like Willie Roaf, Dermontti Dawson and Cortez Kennedy get in over far sexier names and more skill based positions that also played for better teams.

[Kramerica Industries]

Per the reliable Wikipedia:

Shortly after, Carter had a falling out with coach Buddy Ryan and was a surprise cut following the pre-season. Carter later admitted that Ryan released him because of alcohol and drug abuse, large amounts of ecstasy and marijuana being his drugs of choice, and credits his former coach with helping him turn his life around as a result

[pmoehrin]

Per the reliable Wikipedia:

Shortly after, Carter had a falling out with coach Buddy Ryan and was a surprise cut following the pre-season. Carter later admitted that Ryan released him because of alcohol and drug abuse, large amounts of ecstasy and marijuana being his drugs of choice, and credits his former coach with helping him turn his life around as a result

I'm not surprised if alot of people don't know that because you don't even see highlights of Cris Carter with the Eagles. He caught 11 TD's with them his final year. It wasn't like they passed him over and let him go to Minnesota for nothing because they didn't think he had talent.

I'll just say if people want to know why he's a speaker at the rookie symposium what happened with him in Philadelphia is it. He's probably the best example of how fine the line really is between being a Hall of Fame caliber player and another washout.

[rams80]

Okay, my memory must be fuzzy - what was Chris Carter's character flaw? I understand most sports writers think he's a jerk, but that's not anywhere near Ray Lewis levels of scumbaggery.

The drug use and what happened with him being ruled ineligible at Ohio State.

He came very close to being kicked out of the league and I still think that's still fresh in alot of writers minds. I don't agree with the mentality of that and I'd put Cris Carter above roughly half the receivers in the Hall right now which is what makes it so odd that he hasn't gotten in yet, especially after they just stuck Michael Irvin in. I don't think there's many people out there that would take Irvin over Carter and that's probably the biggest reason why many people including are asking is there something else going on here.

I don't think the drugs are the problem, especially given how much he turned his life around. I think the bigger issue for Carter is that while he racked up some pretty good numbers over a lengthy career, there's nothing truly spectacular about his career. His association with those Denny Green Vikings teams that, while certainly being a tough out and perennial playoff participant, did nothing truly of (positive) note in the postseason also kind of damages his case. The 1990s Vikings are just kind of...there, really.

[tBBP]

Shortly after, Carter had a falling out with coach Buddy Ryan and was a surprise cut following the pre-season. Carter later admitted that Ryan released him because of alcohol and drug abuse, large amounts of ecstasy and marijuana being his drugs of choice, and credits his former coach with helping him turn his life around as a result

I think that last line is the one that should be bolded.

Far too often, and its human nature, people are so quick to pull up negativity on one another. Dirt, scandal...it's what sells. (Otherwise the paparazzi and the tabloid industry wouldn't exist.) There's also those who are so quick to judge it ain't even funny. But why can't people be that quick if not quickER to credit these same people for the positives...like Cris Carter turning his life around and having his most productive years in Minnesota?

The other thing that I find funny is those who are quick to resort to sarcasm/snarkiness, rush judgement and/or bring up dirt from the past usually only have that one or two thing(s) to use (like Ray Lewis and the Super Bowl thing...what other trouble has he gotten into during his time in the league? Quick—anybody? Anybody at all??).

And, as we've seen time and again, especially up in here...those naysayers more often than not end up being the same people—over and over again. To the point of predictability. Which probably says more about THEM than whatever dirt they keep flinging says about those they keep digging the dirt on.

[Gothamite]

Okay, my memory must be fuzzy - what was Chris Carter's character flaw? I understand most sports writers think he's a jerk, but that's not anywhere near Ray Lewis levels of scumbaggery.

The drug use and what happened with him being ruled ineligible at Ohio State.

He came very close to being kicked out of the league and I still think that's still fresh in alot of writers minds. I don't agree with the mentality of that and I'd put Cris Carter above roughly half the receivers in the Hall right now which is what makes it so odd that he hasn't gotten in yet, especially after they just stuck Michael Irvin in. I don't think there's many people out there that would take Irvin over Carter and that's probably the biggest reason why many people including are asking is there something else going on here.

I don't think the drugs are the problem, especially given how much he turned his life around. I think the bigger issue for Carter is that while he racked up some pretty good numbers over a lengthy career, there's nothing truly spectacular about his career. His association with those Denny Green Vikings teams that, while certainly being a tough out and perennial playoff participant, did nothing truly of (positive) note in the postseason also kind of damages his case. The 1990s Vikings are just kind of...there, really.

I think you've hit it on the head. People love a redemption story, so I can't see how "turning his life and career around after heavy drug use nearly cost him anything" can seriously be held against him now.

I think he might be viewed as a stat padder on a good-but-not-great team, able to get the numbers he had through longevity alone. Which is an impressive enough accomplishment, but not HoF-worthy itself.