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infrared41

infrared41's Best and Worst - NFL 2018 Week 15

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On 12/20/2018 at 10:38 PM, JTernup said:

I actually agree, I like both the Colts and Cowboys uniforms more than either the Panthers or Saints but that game looks washed out and sterile. I much prefer the 'look' of the NO-Car game. 

So Colts and Cowboys looked great by your own admission but it was too “sterile.”

 

Meanwhile you liked the look of a game featuring one team in black jerseys, black pants, and black sock and another team in black pants and black socks. 

Sorry? That doesn’t make a lot of sense to me. 

 

And I’m with @infrared41 on this one. This obsession with colours above all else is silly. Every team in the league has a solid colour combo. The problem is that some teams use their colours in awful uniform designs. Two bad looks don’t look good together just because “the colours” are nice. If that’s the case? Why bother caring about uniform design at all?

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2 hours ago, Ice_Cap said:

And I’m with @infrared41 on this one. This obsession with colours above all else is silly. Every team in the league has a solid colour combo. The problem is that some teams use their colours in awful uniform designs. Two bad looks don’t look good together just because “the colours” are nice. If that’s the case? Why bother caring about uniform design at all?

The Browns vs. Broncos is a perfect example of this. I love both color schemes but the uniforms are terrible, IMO. (I will gladly admit I have never liked the "modern" Broncos look)

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2 hours ago, jmac11281 said:

The Browns vs. Broncos is a perfect example of this. I love both color schemes but the uniforms are terrible, IMO. (I will gladly admit I have never liked the "modern" Broncos look)

 

My thoughts exactly.

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A preview of next year's infrared41's Best and Worst.

 

Best:

 

1. Cardinals - Seahawks: The colors were fantastic in this one. Every game should match this well.

 

B80E1lS.jpg      Sl7dYUD.jpg

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8 hours ago, Ice_Cap said:

So Colts and Cowboys looked great by your own admission but it was too “sterile.”

 

Meanwhile you liked the look of a game featuring one team in black jerseys, black pants, and black sock and another team in black pants and black socks. 

Sorry? That doesn’t make a lot of sense to me. 

Honestly, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me either. I really like the uniforms but that matchup being inside really hurts the look of the game. The NO-Car game looked warm. Although I hate the leotard looks of both teams. 

 

If I were to have my own list I would primarily base it off of how pleasing it was to watch the game. The Colts would probably make it way less than they deserve due to playing inside on carpet. To me, that matters more for matchup aesthetics than the browns having a pant stripe word mark.

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12 hours ago, JTernup said:

If I were to have my own list I would primarily base it off of how pleasing it was to watch the game.

 

That's exactly how I do it. No offense, but do you think I have some sort of different system based on...well...I'm not sure what. 

 

Anyway, I'm baffled by posts that basically say "the uniforms were ugly, but it was still a good looking game." I guess I just have a hard time understanding being pleased by something that I think looks bad. B)

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This thread has taken a strange turn.  For years 'Red has taken the time to post his (obviously) personal opinions about which uniforms look best, and how great it is when two teams in nice uniforms play each other.  Or, you know, how bad it is when two teams in crappy uniforms play each other. And then the rest of us get to riff off the list, that one guy who likes it when the Bengals go to Tampa peeks his head out, and a good time is had by all.

 

IIRC, things like weather conditions, how the color schemes connect, etc. can be considered as a tie breaker thing, but if you've followed  Infrared's lists, you know he's not gonna put the Seahawks' lime green uniforms vs the Titans in all Navy in the top five just because the colors look snappy together. 

 

For what it's worth Im with him. I love Brown and orange as a color scheme, but Cleveland wouldn't get within 20 spots of any top five list of mine until the current set is dead and buried.

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11 hours ago, infrared41 said:

 

That's exactly how I do it. No offense, but do you think I have some sort of different system based on...well...I'm not sure what. 

 

Anyway, I'm baffled by posts that basically say "the uniforms were ugly, but it was still a good looking game." I guess I just have a hard time understanding being pleased by something that I think looks bad. B)

 

No, my system is the same. Although I think my personal system relies more on the press box shot so the small details get obscured. When I think about how aesthetically pleasing a matchup is my resolution is just decreased. The Browns orange stitching (my least favorite uniform element in the NFL) becomes less of an annoyance than two teams wearing white helmets for example.

 

3 hours ago, oldschoolvikings said:

This thread has taken a strange turn.  For years 'Red has taken the time to post his (obviously) personal opinions about which uniforms look best, and how great it is when two teams in nice uniforms play each other.  Or, you know, how bad it is when two teams in crappy uniforms play each other. And then the rest of us get to riff off the list, that one guy who likes it when the Bengals go to Tampa peeks his head out, and a good time is had by all.

 

IIRC, things like weather conditions, how the color schemes connect, etc. can be considered as a tie breaker thing, but if you've followed  Infrared's lists, you know he's not gonna put the Seahawks' lime green uniforms vs the Titans in all Navy in the top five just because the colors look snappy together. 

 

For what it's worth Im with him. I love Brown and orange as a color scheme, but Cleveland wouldn't get within 20 spots of any top five list of mine until the current set is dead and buried.

 

I really enjoy, Infrared's lists I've been following them for most of the time I've been here. I'm not trying to argue with him or say his opinion is wrong (I hope that isn't the perception as I agree with his lists most of the time) I'm trying to provide context for why I think certain matchup are better than others even in cases I'm surprised by.

 

Hopefully that clarifies how I view whether a matchup is good in spite of the finer details. 

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46 minutes ago, JTernup said:

 

No, my system is the same. Although I think my personal system relies more on the press box shot so the small details get obscured. When I think about how aesthetically pleasing a matchup is my resolution is just decreased. The Browns orange stitching (my least favorite uniform element in the NFL) becomes less of an annoyance than two teams wearing white helmets for example.

 

FWIW, this is my "system." First, I have NFL Sunday Ticket so I'm able to take a look every game live. It's nice because I don't have to rely on pictures or highlights. I get to see each matchup in real time which is more valuable for this silly little exercise than you'd think. For example, there have been numerous occasions where I'd see a game on the schedule and think it's going to be a good looking game only to see it and have it fall flat. A good example of this is the Rams throwback uniform. I'm a big fan of classic and throwback looks. It seemed logical that I'd love the Rams in the throwbacks. Then I saw them in a game. While I think it's a perfectly fine uniform, it's not among my favorites. Point being, my first (and usually final) assessment is based on how the game looked as it was being played. 

 

I rank the games on the lists based on what I think are the best (or worst) uniform match ups. Think of it like a grading system. Two "A" grade uniforms in a matchup are always going to find a spot on the best list without regard for how the colors match. I'm always going to go with two great uniforms over two lesser uniforms that are a good color match.

 

There are times when an "A" uniform is matched up against a "C" uniform but it still works. If I like the way they look together, I'll put that game on the best list. That's why you'll occasionally see teams like the Seahawks and even the Bengals on the best list. About the only time colors are part of the equation is if I have a tie for a spot on the best list. When that happens, I use things like sunshine or how the colors "pop" to break the tie. Other than that, "color matching" has nothing to do with it. 

 

In short, the lists always come down to one thing and one thing only; whether or not I like how the game looked. To me, if it's only about the colors then these lists become something entirely different and something more pointless than they already are. B)

 

 

Quote

I really enjoy, Infrared's lists I've been following them for most of the time I've been here. I'm not trying to argue with him or say his opinion is wrong (I hope that isn't the perception as I agree with his lists most of the time) I'm trying to provide context for why I think certain matchup are better than others even in cases I'm surprised by.

 

Hopefully that clarifies how I view whether a matchup is good in spite of the finer details. 

 

I think OldSchoolVikings was commenting on how the participants in the threads this year seem to have fallen into two distinct camps - the "uniform camp" and the "colors camp." Before this season, most of the disagreements were over how good or bad the uniforms were.  This year, it seems like we're seeing a lot of "yeah, the uniforms suck, but the colors are nice so it's still a good looking game" which is a little strange considering the point of these threads.

 

Finally, I haven't taken your posts as anything other than a differing opinion. I don't think you're telling me I'm wrong, etc. I encourage the debates that take place in these threads. But I do find it odd how the debate has shifted to color as much as it has. 

 

 

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On 12/21/2018 at 4:42 PM, infrared41 said:

When did this place turn into SportsColors.net? Two ugly girls in ugly dresses in matching colors is still two ugly girls in two ugly dresses. A bad uniform is a bad uniform no matter how well the colors work. I really don’t get this year’s fascination with color match ups in this thread. The whole “the uniforms are bad, but the colors looked good” kinda defeats the purpose these here boards, if you ask me. But, as I say every week, differing opinions are OK. 

 

well, im definitely looking at the matchup from a different perspective. for me, a quality matchup isnt just about 2 good uniforms (Cowboys vs Colts) but the pairing of them. 1.) is each individual uniform a solid design? 2.) do they contrast well against one another? 3.) do the styles pair well with one another? 4) does the environment enhance or hurt the matchup?

 

i like considering the functionality of the matchup and how easy/hard it is to follow on TV. so when the Cowboys play the Colts in a stadium with blue walls and blue endzones, its very monochrome and hard not as easy to watch as the Saints vs Panthers who both wear average (not terrible) uniforms, but their signature colors can clearly be seen. this is part of the core functionality of a uniform, to distinguish Team A from Team B. if thats not easy to do, then maybe on of the teams wore the wrong jersey or pants? and there is certainly something pleasing about, "red team vs blue team" or colors that do pair well. i see no harm in accounting for the aesthetics of the matchup as opposed to only the individual teams. 

 

the worse matchup we've seen this year is Cardinals vs Chiefs, not because of the subjective qualities of those uniforms, but because there was so much red and white, its was extremely hard to follow the game. the worse matchup we've ever seen, if you account for colorblindness, is the Jets vs Bills colorrush uniform— they both looked gray to those who are red/green colorblind. even if you liked each uniform, you'd have to say that is without doubt a bad matchup.
 

On 12/21/2018 at 9:29 PM, infrared41 said:

Also, a game featuring two teams wearing black based uniforms is colorful, but a game featuring white, silver, and royal blue is drab. OK then. :blink:

 

no. again, the Saints and Panthers signature colors stand out clearly and Team A is easily distinguished from Team B. that is not so much the case with DAL v IND because of the monochrome effect. 

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I just can’t enjoy a matchup if I’m watching the game and find myself bothered the whole time by certain elements of the uniforms, such as completely unnecessary usage of black pants paired with black socks.

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1 hour ago, BrandMooreArt said:

no. again, the Saints and Panthers signature colors stand out clearly and Team A is easily distinguished from Team B. that is not so much the case with DAL v IND because of the monochrome effect. 

Hilariously it was the NOLA vs CAR game had the monochrome. 

 

And no, sorry dude. The Saints and Panthers looked like crap because each paired black socks with black pants. 

“But the colours were visible and matched up nicely!” 

That doesn’t matter if the uniforms themselves suck. And they sucked. 

 

1 hour ago, BrandMooreArt said:

1.) is each individual uniform a solid design? 2.) do they contrast well against one another? 3.) do the styles pair well with one another? 4) does the environment enhance or hurt the matchup?

“The environment” has little to no effect for me. Neither do “the colours” to be honest. 

The Colts and Cowboys are two white and blue teams, so it’s a bit same-y, but you know what? They’re both sharp looks. Better than watching two teams in black yoga pants. 

 

As always? Overthinking a simple concept ruins it. 

 

2 hours ago, JTernup said:

 I'm not trying to argue with him or say his opinion is wrong (I hope that isn't the perception as I agree with his lists most of the time) I'm trying to provide context for why I think certain matchup are better than others even in cases I'm surprised by.

 

Hopefully that clarifies how I view whether a matchup is good in spite of the finer details. 

I think the bigger issue here isn’t a debate over one person or another’s opinion so much as it’s a trend that’s been brewing all year coming to ahead. 

 

There have been people nearly every week jumping into these threads to express the opinion that “colours” matter more than uniforms. DAL vs IND and NOLA vs CAR is just the most recent example of an ongoing debate, where you have some people arguing the matchup with objectively better uniforms (yes, I said objectively, tradition haters can deal B) ) is worse than the matchup with lesser uniforms because “the colours.”

 

I think what @infrared41, @oldschoolvikings, myself, and others are arguing is that simply focusing on the colours is...silly. 

I’ll be honest. There isn’t a single NFL team that has a bad colour scheme. Not a single one. That said? Not every NFL team has a good uniform. A good colour scheme doesn’t amount to much if the uniforms suck. 

 

So when people say a matchup between two bad uniforms is better than a matchup between two good uniforms? It boggles my mind because if all we’re going to care about is the colour matchup? Then why even bother with good uniform design?  

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1 hour ago, BrandMooreArt said:

well, im definitely looking at the matchup from a different perspective.

 

Yeah, I always forget you're seeing games from a perspective us mere mortals can't comprehend. B)

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15 minutes ago, infrared41 said:

 

Yeah, I always forget you're seeing games from a perspective us mere mortals can't comprehend. B)

 

c’mon man, you’re really strawmanning the points im making and now just being a jackass. im not even telling you you’re wrong or should even consider changing the way you look at a matchup. but that i just dont feel the same way and have other opinions which i felt ive done a good job in supporting. contrast between the 2 teams playing is a big one for me that doesnt seem to bother you. which is fine man, keep making your threads and ill keep reading weather i agree with them or not B) 

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Wow, when did everybody here get so defensive?

 

Also, @Ice_Cap and @infrared41, why do you have to target @BrandMooreArt and try to pick apart everything he says? Cap especially. Just say you don’t respect him at all, say that he “talks down” to everybody, and move on with it. It would be helpful if you made your attitudes towards him more transparent.

 

Sometimes, people have different metrics. That’s OK. You don’t have to dismiss them as ridiculous (or you can, but in a less overtly disrespectful way) or be condescending. As mods, you should hold yourself to a higher standard. 

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5 minutes ago, SFGiants58 said:

Wow, when did everybody here get so defensive?

 

Also, @Ice_Cap and @infrared41, why do you have to target @BrandMooreArt and try to pick apart everything he says? Cap especially. Just say you don’t respect him at all, say that he “talks down” to everybody, and move on with it. It would be helpful if you made your attitudes towards him more transparent.

I don’t think I’ve ever tried to hide my feelings towards BMA for how he conducts himself towards others here. 

 

To say I don’t “respect” him is false though. That’s what makes him such a frustrating figure to deal with. He’s clearly knowledgeable and talented at his craft but the way he constantly talks down to people ruffles my feathers. And again, I don’t think I’ve ever tried to hide that opinion of mine. 

 

If Brandon could find a way to share his expertise and knowledge without talking down to others? That would be great because I do think he has a lot of valuable insight to share within our community. 

 

9 minutes ago, SFGiants58 said:

Sometimes, people have different metrics. That’s OK. You don’t have to dismiss them as ridiculous (or you can, but in a less overtly disrespectful way) or be condescending. As mods, you should hold yourself to a higher standard. 

I’m unsure what to say here beyond I’m not trying to be malicious. If someone says something I disagree with? I’ll say as much. 

 

And while I have been vocal about calling certain opinions silly? I’ve only ever called the positions themselves silly. I don’t think I’ve ever called the posters who hold them silly or ridiculous. 

 

Which is a key distinguishing feature. I don’t want to attack anyone personally, but all opinions expressed here are open to debate. 

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4 minutes ago, Ice_Cap said:

I don’t think I’ve ever tried to hide my feelings towards BMA for how he conducts himself towards others here. 

 

To say I don’t “respect” him is false though. That’s what makes him such a frustrating figure to deal with. He’s clearly knowledgeable and talented at his craft but the way he constantly talks down to people ruffles my feathers. And again, I don’t think I’ve ever tried to hide that opinion of mine. 

 

If Brandon could find a way to share his expertise and knowledge without talking down to others? That would be great because I do think he has a lot of valuable insight to share within our community. 

 

That’s my problem with your attacks. I think he explains himself well enough within the limits of what his job allows him. I’ve only occasionally gotten the “talking down” angle. Please cite examples, so that we can better understand. 

 

Just insisting that he’s “talking down” to people and trying to sush him at every opportunity isn’t productive. As a mod, you shouldn’t try to target people when they aren’t being overtly malicious. This isn’t one of Tom O’Grady’s dupes.

 

4 minutes ago, Ice_Cap said:

I’m unsure what to say here beyond I’m not trying to be malicious. If someone says something I disagree with? I’ll say as much. 

 

And while I have been vocal about calling certain opinions silly? I’ve only ever called the positions themselves silly. I don’t think I’ve ever called the posters who hold them silly or ridiculous. 

 

Which is a key distinguishing feature. I don’t want to attack anyone personally, but all opinions expressed here are open to debate. 

 

I agree there, but posts like this: 

2 hours ago, infrared41 said:

 

Yeah, I always forget you're seeing games from a perspective us mere mortals can't comprehend. B)

 

...are malicious. They show a clear disregard and disrespect for what Brandon is trying to say. People valuing colors over uniform design is legitimate. It’s just that your attitude and @infrared41‘s attitude comes off as occasionally malicious.

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2 hours ago, BrandMooreArt said:

 

c’mon man, you’re really strawmanning the points im making and now just being a jackass. im not even telling you you’re wrong or should even consider changing the way you look at a matchup. but that i just dont feel the same way and have other opinions which i felt ive done a good job in supporting. contrast between the 2 teams playing is a big one for me that doesnt seem to bother you. which is fine man, keep making your threads and ill keep reading weather i agree with them or not B) 

 

Dude, I was just goofing on you. I like most of what you post here. That said, I’m not above busting your chops a little for always reminding us that you’re a pro. It’s all in fun. 

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52 minutes ago, SFGiants58 said:

Wow, when did everybody here get so defensive?

 

Also, @Ice_Cap and @infrared41, why do you have to target @BrandMooreArt and try to pick apart everything he says? Cap especially. Just say you don’t respect him at all, say that he “talks down” to everybody, and move on with it. It would be helpful if you made your attitudes towards him more transparent.

 

I was just goofing on him. Figured the use of this B) made that obvious. As I told Brandon, nine times out of ten, I like what he contributes to the thread, but I also don’t mind knocking him off his pedestal on occasion. It’s all in fun. Sorry if you didn’t see it that way. 

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1 hour ago, infrared41 said:

 

I was just goofing on him. Figured the use of this B) made that obvious. As I told Brandon, nine times out of ten, I like what he contributes to the thread, but I also don’t mind knocking him off his pedestal on occasion. It’s all in fun. Sorry if you didn’t see it that way. 

 

i can live with that. i certainly know not every thing i say online comes across as intended by the reader. sorry if i jumped to a conclusion. i look forward to doing it all again this week :D 

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