NFL Merry-Go-Round: Relocation Roundelay

[Gothamite]

Indeed.

And I'm a ing Arsenal fan, for 's sake. For so many reasons, I should hate the bastard, but I'm now seeing him as the only worthwhile person in this whole mess. Very strange days.

[STL FANATIC]

Kroenke isn't holding Missouri hostage. He's not asking them to go into debt to support him. He knows what he wants and he's willing to pay for it himself. That makes him far and away the most admirable person in this whole story.

Not going to strongly disagree with that. But there's a difference between most admirable and actually admirable.

Even if you just want to play the free market game and support Kroenke's willingness to pay for what he wants, the least the man could do for St. Louis is open his mouth and tell them about it.

[oldschoolvikings]

That does bring up an interesting question, though. Let's say the State pushes this through and starts wringing what they want out of the taxpayers. And then, the Rams leave anyway. Is there a backdoor out?

[DustDevil61]

That does bring up an interesting question, though. Let's say the State pushes this through and starts wringing what they want out of the taxpayers. And then, the Rams leave anyway. Is there a backdoor out?

I wonder if it's also worthwhile for Kroenke to appeal since (or at least ask if) he indeed owns the Rams and can take them where he wants. He's building the road to the big city, he has the car to drive on it, but he can't because the mob says it's their town? Stupid meddling executives.

[The_Admiral]

St. Louis should really be more visionary about building a palace for an NFL team. This league has nowhere to go but down.

[STL FANATIC]

That does bring up an interesting question, though. Let's say the State pushes this through and starts wringing what they want out of the taxpayers. And then, the Rams leave anyway. Is there a backdoor out?

EVERYTHING will be contingent on a commitment. They're lining financing up, but they're not going to break ground until this is sorted out and the Rams are committed to staying.

So that part of things isn't a concern.

One thing to keep an eye out on actually... IF the Chargers and Raiders are indeed given the go ahead to move and the Rams are thusly required to stay in St. Louis, there's still no guarantee this stadium happens in St. Louis. Kroenke may well not want it.

He's got a year-to-year lease for 10 years and it's the most pro-owner lease in all of American sports. He could balk at the $250-ish million that's required of him in this deal and play another long game.

Or maybe he doesn't play the long game but he negotiates something entirely different.

Just one more thing to consider in this crazy soap opera.

[derschwigg]

That does bring up an interesting question, though. Let's say the State pushes this through and starts wringing what they want out of the taxpayers. And then, the Rams leave anyway. Is there a backdoor out?

Realistically, St. Louis is a good geographical location for an NFL team. But if the Rams DO leave, there is hope yet.

A judge recently ruled that the city does not need to vote on whether or not the new stadium could be funded in part by tax-payers dollars. Everything seems to be falling into place to make this new open-air riverfront stadium a reality. St. Louis is also rumored to be in the running for a new MLS team - which could 100% utilize that new stadium.

Big picture? St. Louis an NFL team, but Kroenke doesn't seem to care if it's his or not. I would be surprised if the Rams leave, given the amount of support they're getting now with this new facility. But in the event they do bounce, I could easily see the league pushing a team with a smaller market - say, Jacksonville, for example - to relocate. It would not be a long time without St. Louis NFL.

[rams80]

The MLS is not going into an NFL stadium except as a temporary expedient. Don't even start that.

[Gothamite]

Yeah, not going to happen. MLS teams need MLS stadiums, unless the same person owns the both teams. Which seems extremely unlikely at best.

[STL FANATIC]

I'd be willing to bet you guys a few bucks that if the stadium gets built (which is the big question) that an MLS team does indeed call it home on a long-term basis.

Garber also said it was far too early to talk about the financial commitment a team would make and how any lease might be structured. While MLS has pushed for teams to play in soccer-specific stadiums (particularly downtown stadiums), he said he liked what he saw in HOK’s stadium renderings, in which a curtain would come down from the stadium’s roof to cover the upper deck and reduce the stadium capacity to about 38,000.

“The optimum environment for us is to play in a soccer-specific stadium,” Garber said. “That will always be our goal, but it’s not always achievable in every market. It’s certainly much more attractive when a football stadium is built with MLS in mind, and that’s the plan that these folks have done.”

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/metro/major-league-soccer-commissioner-calls-st-louis-a-great-soccer/article_904cb519-c8cd-5bf7-bde8-3de07fa37b36.html

[rams80]

38,000!? So St. Louis is shooting for having two teams that can't fill up the stadium in one stadium.

[Brian in Boston]

John Oliver nailed it the other week. Cities need to finally stand up to this garbage. The problem is that nobody is willing to be the leader in doing so. The NFL has mastered the game.

Both the Commonwealth of Massachusetts and the City of Boston told Bob Kraft not to expect public subsidization of a stadium built to benefit a privately-held sports franchise. What's more, they did it nearly twenty years ago. That's the reason Kraft financed 100% of Gillette Stadium's construction cost himself. Kraft lined-up the funding for stadium construction through private lenders and the NFL's G-4 stadium loan program.

He then entered into a deal in which the Commonwealth of Massachusetts would engage in a debt offering to finance $70 million in infrastructure improvements (roadways, pedestrian walkways and bridges, utility hook-ups, and wastewater and solid waste management facilities) surrounding the stadium. In return, Kraft agreed to make payments totaling $1.4 million a year to the Commonwealth of Massachusetts General Fund ($250,000 / year directly to the state; $1,150,000 / year combined to the Towns of Foxborough, Sharon, Walpole, and Wrentham, which then pass said money on to the state) up to and until such time as the debt service obligations on the infrastructure improvements were retired.

Historically, that's what a pro sports owner in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts has been able to get out of the public coffers when it came time to building a modern stadium/arena/ballpark - help with infrastructure surrounding the edifice, provided that the owners paid for construction of the facility and pledged to reimburse state and local government for said infrastructure costs.

[STL FANATIC]

Fair point, Brian. It HAS happened. That's why some owners decide to pony up and why some owners move their team elsewhere.

But it hasn't happened enough to where it's even close to the norm.

I mean, heck, St. Louis actually did it almost 30 years ago. And they lost their team as a result. And now here we are.

[The_Admiral]

Realistically, St. Louis is a good geographical location for an NFL team. But if the Rams DO leave, there is hope yet.

It's not that good. The market is overextended in pro sports because of how much baseball dominates the landscape. With teams in Chicago, Kansas City, Indianapolis, Nashville, and Cincinnati (plus Green Bay appealing to people throughout the Midwest), the league doesn't need a presence in St. Louis. With or without the new stadium (I can't live with or without the new stadium), there's nothing about St. Louis that says this is a place the NFL really needs to be. If they survived without Los Angeles, they can survive without St. Louis.

[2001mark]

As soon as St. Louis loses the Rams, they'll jump right back into the top of the NFL threatening to relocate team X to Y destination list.

Frankly, if I were a St. Louisan, I might be sick of the NFL & say f off. Cardinals, Rams, being used as a bargaining chip to & fro... screw that.

[waltere]

Actually, ridiculously stupid and unfeasible as it is, London is shaping up to be next on the docket once L.A. gets filled

[Gothamite]

Agreed.

If they're going to have a completely un-serious relocation threat, it might as well be London over St. Louis.

[rvrdgsfn]

A possible beginning of the end?

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/10/sports/football/nfl-to-weigh-three-teams-proposals-on-moving-to-los-angeles.html?ribbon-ad-idx=4&rref=sports/football&module=Ribbon&version=context&region=Header&action=click&contentCollection=Pro%20Football&pgtype=article&_r=0

For two decades, N.F.L. owners in search of public funding for their stadiums have often played a trump card: threatening to move to Los Angeles. In a few months, that ultimatum may ring hollow.

After years of stalled negotiations and unused blueprints, the N.F.L. is as close to returning to the city as it has been since the Raiders left for Oakland and the Rams departed for St. Louis in 1995.

The Raiders, the Rams and the San Diego Chargers have unveiled plans to build stadiums near Los Angeles, a potential bonanza for the teams and the league. The concentration of fans and companies in the Los Angeles area, the nation’s second-largest market, could lift sales of tickets, merchandise and sponsorships and enhance the N.F.L.’s media rights.

On Monday, the six owners on the committee that oversees the league’s options in Los Angeles will weigh those factors when representatives from San Diego present their plan to keep the Chargers from moving. (Leaders from St. Louis have presented their plan already.) The next day, all 32 owners will hear updates on stadium proposals in Carson and Inglewood, Calif.

While the owners are unlikely to vote this week, the meetings are a milestone. For years, owners have claimed to be looking at Los Angeles without seriously developing plans to build there. Real estate tycoons have declared plans to build stadiums but have not had teams to fill them. The N.F.L. even considered building a stadium itself.

Well, this could get interesting. I think, it's only a matter of time.

[Gothamite]

I agree. There will be a team in LA next year.

Meanwhile, San Diego has unveiled its proposal:

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2015/aug/10/stadium-financing-chargers-eir-chicago/

The Chargers are playing it very cool, no doubt hoping to increase the public contribution above the $350M the city and county are proposing. But it's interesting - either they or the Rams will move, possibly leaving public money on the table in the cities they leave.

[sportstar1212]

Looks pretty nice, but what the hell is up with these upside-down trees?