STL FANATIC Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 Come on. Even if that's true, attacking the market isn't attacking you. Of course not. And I certainly never claimed it was. JUSTIN STRIEBEL | PORTFOLIO | RESUME | CONTACT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gothamite Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 You appear to be coming close at least to making it personal. He's commenting on the subject, you're commenting about him. Your case is much better without opining on the relative worth of other players' contributions. At the same time though, a room full of 1,500 passionate fans doesn't necessarily correlate to a consistently-filled 50,000 seat stadium. Everyone in attendance was an outlier to the average.Of course. But it's still a very positive step. The Green Bay Packers Uniform Database! Now in a handy blog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STL FANATIC Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 It can be an emotional topic. I've tried to reign that in when your or Ice (though we've admittedly snarked at each other at times) engage in real conversation. Rams80 has done little more than make quips. Perhaps factual quips but ones presented without context or without the goal of real discussion. I feel comfortable with statement back. And yes, 1,500 fans doesn't mean they'll fill 60,000 seats. But that's really no different than the LA rally groups drawing so much attention is it? (They may draw more than 1,500 sometimes, I'm not sure. But remember the NFL capped this themselves and registration filled up quickly.) It's not proof of anything. It is an expression of passion, though. And in this case it was more than a pep rally (frankly I was disappointed that it also became a pep rally—not the place for that IMO). Many of those 1,500 fans expressed a great deal of good opinions, facts, and feelings. I think it hit home with the NFL representatives. I'm not of the belief that it will make a great deal of difference. JUSTIN STRIEBEL | PORTFOLIO | RESUME | CONTACT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gothamite Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 If he's taking drive-by potshots at the city, you're taking drive-by potshots at him. Not really cool. I have found his contributions positive at times, and snarky at times. I'm sure the same could be said of any and all of us (including/especially me), but we all have to either let it roll off our backs or initiate a complaint for trolling. If you really think that. The Green Bay Packers Uniform Database! Now in a handy blog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STL FANATIC Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 I'm gonna just agree to disagree with you. We've already posted far too much about a couple of simple and harmless sentences. JUSTIN STRIEBEL | PORTFOLIO | RESUME | CONTACT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gothamite Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 Sure, why not. Agree to disagree. The Green Bay Packers Uniform Database! Now in a handy blog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STL FANATIC Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 God has spoken. http://fox2now.com/2015/10/26/ram-spotted-in-festus/ CRAP. http://fox2now.com/2015/10/28/jeffco-ram-struck-by-truck-and-killed/ JUSTIN STRIEBEL | PORTFOLIO | RESUME | CONTACT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Admiral Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 hellooooooooooo new rams80 avatar ♫ oh yeah, board goes on, long after the thrill of postin' is gone ♫ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LMU Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 Facebook link from the SD town hall. Pretty much sums up the take of a lot of LA residents: https://www.facebook.com/losangelesrams/videos/10153062953885981/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Admiral Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 Whoa, Jim Parsons, talk about a get Californians want the Chargers and Raiders to stay where they are and the Rams to come back.NFL: But Dean Spanos is so niiiiiice ♫ oh yeah, board goes on, long after the thrill of postin' is gone ♫ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfwabel Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 On the eve of the their public meeting, Oakland's mayor had her State of the City address. Mayor Libby Schaff made no mention of the Raiders (or A's for that matter). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gothamite Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 God has spoken.http://fox2now.com/2015/10/26/ram-spotted-in-festus/CRAP.http://fox2now.com/2015/10/28/jeffco-ram-struck-by-truck-and-killed/Damn. The universe sucks sometimes. Guess they'll never find out where it came from now. The Green Bay Packers Uniform Database! Now in a handy blog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rams80 Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 hellooooooooooo new rams80 avatar *right click, save* On 8/1/2010 at 4:01 PM, winters in buffalo said: You manage to balance agitation with just enough salient points to keep things interesting. Kind of a low-rent DG_Now. On 1/2/2011 at 9:07 PM, Sodboy13 said: Today, we are all otaku. "The city of Peoria was once the site of the largest distillery in the world and later became the site for mass production of penicillin. So it is safe to assume that present-day Peorians are descended from syphilitic boozehounds."-Stephen Colbert POTD: February 15, 2010, June 20, 2010 The Glorious Bloom State Penguins (NCFAF) 2014: 2-9, 2015: 7-5 (L Pineapple Bowl), 2016: 1-0 (NCFAB) 2014-15: 10-8, 2015-16: 14-5 (SMC Champs, L 1st Round February Frenzy) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfwabel Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Mark Davis was in attendance tonight, spoke briefly, than sat down to listen to the fans berate him.Oakland Mayor Schaff spoke but gave no financial promises.I left after about an 75 minutes of fan pleas.Grubman shook everybody's hand at the door on the way in and LA Times' Sam Farmer sat right in front and of me in the theater back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STL FANATIC Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 NFL Hearing attendance estimates: St. Louis: 1,500 San Diego: 450 Oakland: 400 http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/13988824/lively-st-louis-rams-fans-meet-nfl-executives-public-hearing-regarding-team-relocation-status http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/13997415/mark-fabiani-leader-san-diego-chargers-relocation-effort-booed-start-public-hearing http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/14006918/raiders-owner-mark-davis-says-committed-keeping-team-oakland I attended the entirety of the St. Louis hearing and watched probably 85% of the hearings in both San Diego and Oakland. Obviously the subject matter from each speaker varied, but if I had to summarize each city's tone in one word, it would be this: St. Louis: Defensive San Diego: Angry Oakland: Desperate None of those are intended to be judgmental, I think every market responded that way for a particular reason. And at points you could use those same words for the other markets and you can throw in the word passionate for all three of them as well. IF—and this is a big and unlikely if, but IF these hearings are going to have any impact on the outcome of this situation, I think St. Louis and Oakland held the most impactful ones. St. Louis because of the way they overwhelmed the NFL executives with support for the team and the way they came informed with numbers and facts and rules. That was something that didn't happen as often in the other two cities. The other two cities made pleas for their fan base, but attendees of the St. Louis hearing took the NFL to task over the conduct of the owner, over the relocation policy, over the details of the lease, the history of financial support, the economic environment, and more. It was a mix of passion and detailed arguments that I think has as good a chance of being noticed by the league as was possible. And then Oakland because Mark Davis was sitting right there in the front of the auditorium (not on stage) to take it all in. He not only spoke at the beginning, but he directly responded to one of the early speakers, and he sat their and acknowledged the speakers throughout the night. I think he's genuine in his desire to stay in Oakland if he can find a way, and I think Raiders fans did a really great job appealing to him on an emotional level. A bunch of them even said their city is right not to overdo it with tax money, but find a way to start a fan fund, and they'll pay for the stadium. They made a real plea and a real convincing argument that the Raiders ARE Oakland and Oakland is the Raiders. And Mark Davis being a genuine (if goofy) person sitting there to hear it all gives that a shot at mattering. I don't think San Diego did anything wrong. But Spanos wasn't there (not in plain sight anyways). Fabiani was. It wasn't that you couldn't see the passion from the Chargers fan base, it was just that it came out as anger. And even if it hadn't, I'm not sure what good it was going to do—Fabiani isn't interested in that. They had a few fans lightly skim some of the details that the St. Louis hearing had brought up, but because Spanos has been at it for over a decade, it largely felt he said-she said rather than a convincing case. (As in the Chargers fan base—perhaps accurately—believes in those 14 years Spanos has really tried to fairly negotiate a stadium deal. But since it has been talked about for 14 years, it just didn't have the oomph.) Now, I think the impact these will have is very negligible. Even if those 4 NFL officials on stage walked away with clear feelings, the chances of it impacted what the owners do is slim. (Which is why I think Mark Davis actually being and participated in the Oakland one actually gives it some meaning.) So please don't combine the above observations and opinions with my clear and admitted bias and think I'm trying to spin something. I'm not. I mentioned attendance because fan gathering (and not just at games) has been a frequent topic in this thread, and my takeaways from the hearings themselves are simply offered as discussion points. JUSTIN STRIEBEL | PORTFOLIO | RESUME | CONTACT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colortv Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 I don't see how the Raiders can stay in Oakland....there's a $400 million funding shortfall, Davis is already using future TV money and the NFL G-4 loan to fund his $500 million of funding, Oakland is still paying off the Coliseum upgrades from 1995, and the city is in no position to raise new taxes.San Diego would need public financing, and that would require a vote that has no chance of passing. Unless they could miraculously put together a downtown project as part of a convention center expansion, that has it's own minefields(hotelier opposition, removing the train station which would be a years long process)St. Louis has the least fan support, and the least history in it's home market, and I highly doubt Kroenke or the NFL is fond of a proposal that only includes $150 million in public funding for a $1 billion stadium.No matter what happens I think they have to divert a large part of the relocation fee to the third team to help fund a stadium in the home market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STL FANATIC Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 I don't see how the Raiders can stay in Oakland....there's a $400 million funding shortfall, Davis is already using future TV money and the NFL G-4 loan to fund his $500 million of funding, Oakland is still paying off the Coliseum upgrades from 1995, and the city is in no position to raise new taxes. San Diego would need public financing, and that would require a vote that has no chance of passing. Unless they could miraculously put together a downtown project as part of a convention center expansion, that has it's own minefields(hotelier opposition, removing the train station which would be a years long process) St. Louis has the least fan support, and the least history in it's home market, and I highly doubt Kroenke or the NFL is fond of a proposal that only includes $150 million in public funding for a $1 billion stadium. No matter what happens I think they have to divert a large part of the relocation fee to the third team to help fund a stadium in the home market. The NFL does seem to have some qualms with the what they consider public money and what they consider NFL generated money, but the $150 number your talking about it strictly city money. There is a large chunk of state money in there too. The money being asked from the team owner is $250. The money asked from the NFL G4 program is $200. So the other $550 million is coming from non-private funds. PSLs are one of them, and then it's public money. (Not disagreeing with anything else in your post, I just wanted to correct/explain that $150 number.) JUSTIN STRIEBEL | PORTFOLIO | RESUME | CONTACT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gothamite Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 Well this could be interesting. Or it could be nothing. Jaguars owner Shad Khan hints at Plan C for Los AngelesAccording to Tom Pelissero of USA Today, one owner suggested theres still time for some outside-the-box thinking, at a time when most are only considering how to chop Los Angeles and three existing markets up among the Chargers and/or Raiders and/or Rams.The best solution might be something thats not even presented, Jaguars owner Shad Khan said. There might be Plan C.Khan did say he thought the league could still end up with a team in Los Angeles in 2016. But with negotiations ongoing, and talk of international games at an all-time high, its clear that if theres leverage to be played, nows the time to play it.I'd love to know what he has in mind. The Green Bay Packers Uniform Database! Now in a handy blog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBTV Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 Is there some way to make everybody happy? Probably not, because when you compromise, generally everybody loses. But still - 1. Move the Rams permanently to their own stadium (there's was Inglewood, right?) 2. Have the Raiders and Chargers play a season or two as "regional" teams, splitting home games between Oak/SD and LA. Would this work long term? Absolutely not. Besides the obvious issue of regional teams not working, their stadium plan would certainly not happen as they'd be effectively filling only one team's worth of dates. But the Pros would be: -it does put even more pressure on Oak and SD (cities, not teams) to bend over and accommodate the league since the teams would literally have a foot out the door, and it also buys another year or two for some other stadium plan in LA to become viable, or for either OAK or SD to cave in and beg the Rams to be tenants. -the networks are probably happy, because there's still 1 NFC LA team and effectively 1 AFC team. -the league doesn't need to worry about switching an AFC team to the NFC. "The views expressed here are mine and do not reflect the official opinion of my employer or the organization through which the Internet was accessed." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colortv Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 Yeah right...anyone who saw the town halls in SD and Oak can see how angry and volatile the fans already are.Having them play as "regional teams" or whatever for a season would be an absolute circus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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