NFL Merry-Go-Round: Relocation Roundelay

[Gothamite]

Objective reporter Mike Sando weighs in.

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcwest/post/_/id/65447/initial-thoughts-on-rams-stadium-proposal

Seems like a pretty fair assessment.

The key provision to me, so far, is the CVC's initial contention that the Rams are responsible for 50% + of the total bill, because that's the average team contribution to a new stadium. They haven't provided anything in the original lease agreement stating thet the Rams are responsible for even 1% of the costs, though, and a reasonable interpretation of the publicly-provided portion is that the CVC is exclusively responsible for the funding (since they're the ones responsible for providing a "top tier" facility).

If the arbiter agrees with the CVC that the Rams are on the hook, I believe they'll stay in St. Louis. If the arbiter rules that the CVC is wholly responsible for paying for it, on the other hand, I don't see how St. Louis can possibly go through with it, and they're gone.

[BigMac12]

And to answer my queston, somebody from flickr has posted the proposed seating chart of the renovated Edward Jones Dome:

Dang, it looks funky!

[The_Admiral]

I am still baffled that a stadium built in 1995 is considered obsolete in 2012-14.

Because it was built on the cheap in order to say they'd have a football stadium. The then-Florida Suncoast Dome was practically obsolete the day it was built.

[Gothamite]

And the Rams knew it, too. That's why the lease obligated the CVC to essentially build them a shiny new one by the time this one turned 20.

And to answer my queston, somebody from flickr has posted the proposed seating chart of the renovated Edward Jones Dome:

Dang, it looks funky!

Sorry - the one cross-section I didn't post...

[Gothamite]

The arbitration might not be binding on the Rams after all.

We have the original assertion that it binds the Rams on one blog, while the NBC Sports blog says that it doesn't bind either party.

I suspect that NBC's blog is wrong on this, but let me see if I can find a better source either way...

[STL FANATIC]

Sando actually validates it with a source, though.

Arbitration would be binding for the Rams if the stadium authority accepted the arbiter's proposal, a spokeswoman for St. Louis mayor Francis Slay confirmed Monday.

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcwest/post/_/id/65447/initial-thoughts-on-rams-stadium-proposal

It had been going around for a while that this was non-binding arbitration, but nothing was ever clarified with a source. Sando seems to have his. Another Rams writer/blogger suggests he's confirmed this independently as well, though I don't know his source.

[Gothamite]

That's good, but still not an objective source. The Mayor's office definitely has a stake here (not to mention that spokespeople aren't necessarily authorities on the subject).

I do suspect that's indeed the case, but would like to confirm it.

[STL FANATIC]

That's good, but still not an objective source. The Mayor's office definitely has a stake here (not to mention that spokespeople aren't necessarily authorities on the subject).

I do suspect that's indeed the case, but would like to confirm it.

True, but it's easily the best source we've seen. And while you're right about biases, I wouldn't think they would simply lie about the clause. Not sure how much wiggle room their is for interpretation either. You'd think it's pretty simply one way or the other, but you never know, I suppose.

I'll obviously post if I come across something more clear.

[rams80]

The shortsightedness of TCF Stadium was a joke to begin with. The Gophers and Vikings should have gotten togther on a shared stadium from day one.

Except the off-campus Metrodome experience sucked for the Golden Gophers and the University doesn't like having to sell beer on campus.

[The_Admiral]

They wouldn't have had to sell beer at Gophers games just because they did at Vikings games. Maybe it shouldn't have been designated as "campus," then. I don't know. Pretty stupid that the Vikings have been sabotaged by the whims of some minor league doormat.

[Gothamite]

I don't think the Vikings consider themselves as having been "sabotaged" at this point...

And fair enough, if the Gophers managed to get their deal done they got to set the terms of the deal.

[BigMac12]

Am I the only one who thinks this:

is the football equivalent to Great American Ballpark?

[njmeadowlanders]

I haven't been following this too closely, but the lease requires the Rams facility in St. Louis to be in "the top eight of 31 NFL stadiums" by 2015. What does that even mean? How can you possibly rank the 31 facilities objectively? Who's to say one is or is not better than another? One person could rank it 14th, one 23rd, one 7th, who knows?

Also, if the Rams had to close the dome for 3 years to do this, I couldn't imagine they play at new Busch, so would it be Mizzou which is 2 hours away? The Bears did that w/ Champaign.

[Gothamite]

The contract specified a series of objextive criteria defining "top tier", mostly dealing with number of restrooms, number and size of concessions and shops, width of seats, erc. . It's not quite as subjective and random as you might think.

Frontier knew what she was doing, and what she was doing was laying a trap for the taxpayers of St. Louis.

Am I the only one who thinks this:

(image removed)

is the football equivalent to Great American Ballpark?

I haven't been there; in what way do you mean?

[STL FANATIC]

The contract specified a series of objextive criteria defining "top tier", mostly dealing with number of restrooms, number and size of concessions and shops, width of seats, erc. . It's not quite as subjective and random as you might think.

Frontier knew what she was doing, and what she was doing was laying a trap for the taxpayers of St. Louis.

Less Frontiere, more John Shaw and others. Meanwhile, those who negotiated on the part of St. Louis were not being smart.

I saw the other day a source who was part of the original lease negotiations on the Rams side say that the Rams weren't expecting to get EVERYTHING when they moved to St. Louis. They just kept putting these things out waiting for St. Louis to say "no" to something, and it never happened. It has to go down as one of the worst leases for a city in history. That will be especially true if the city is required to spend anything above about $250 million in this thing.

It is what it is, though, and now they just have to see what they can do with it.

[STL FANATIC]

Here's a biased perspective from St. Louis Post-Dispatch columnist Bryan Burwell.

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/columns/bryan-burwell/burwell-st-louis-needs-to-look-at-the-big-picture/article_0c1e5ee6-b046-5b5c-b7ff-3f5da750c569.html

His main points:

? While the Rams proposal is pricey, it is not completely over the top. This does not appear to be an effort to end negotiations. It is not mentioned in this article, but a stadium consultant who worked with the Rams on the original lease (but has no role this time around) had similar sentiments yesterday. He said this offer is not reflective of the Rams attempting to create an "impasse" in negotiations.

? This proposal isn't just good for the Rams. It would be very good for the city and region. Rather than make the renovation proposal all about football, Kroenke and his team put together a plan that would help the region bring in other events--events that would bring money to the city, not to the Rams.

? While probably going beyond simply meeting the requirements of the lease, the proposal addresses the first tier clause of the lease point by point.

Basically, Burwell believes this is a good faith proposal by the Rams to create a really, really great building for the fans, for football, for the region, and most importantly, for the long-term.

[Sport]

Am I the only one who thinks this:

is the football equivalent to Great American Ballpark?

In what way? In the assymetry and missing sections?

I'd say because of the way both stadiums have sloped seating sections, (right field bleachers in GABP, and the endzone sections at PBS) that Paul Brown Stadium right there in Cincinnati is the football equivalent to Great American Ballpark.

[NJTank]

The shortsightedness of TCF Stadium was a joke to begin with. The Gophers and Vikings should have gotten togther on a shared stadium from day one.

Except the off-campus Metrodome experience sucked for the Golden Gophers and the University doesn't like having to sell beer on campus.

Are the Gophers good enough to demand a stadium of their own, I mean when is the last time Minnesota has been relevant in the NCAA?

[TheOldRoman]

I have a few questions.

1) I remember Gothamite mentioning that Missouri passed a law which made it next to impossible for big cities to take enough funds for a project this big (or something). How are they planning to go around that.

2) Has there been any mention of where the Rams would play while renovations were going on? I can't imagine they could get this done in one offseason.

[Gothamite]

Basically, Burwell believes this is a good faith proposal by the Rams to create a really, really great building for the fans, for football, for the region, and most importantly, for the long-term.

I don't doubt for a minute that it's a good-faith proposal. I don't think the Rams are set on leaving (although I have little doubt they will leave if St. Louis doesn't pony up and pony up huge).