Tigers6884 Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 In the way back days of the NFL, there was a team called the Brooklyn Dodgers that coexisted with the baseball team of the same name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VancouverFan69 Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 Toronto FC New York City FC Los Angeles FC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben in LA Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 I would bring up college, but that's too easy (ahem Wildcats) There ARE the Kings though...they even shared the same color scheme for awhile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gothamite Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 5 hours ago, VancouverFan69 said: Toronto FC New York City FC Los Angeles FC The Green Bay Packers Uniform Database! Now in a handy blog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gothamite Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 1 hour ago, Ben in LA said: I would bring up college, but that's too easy (ahem Wildcats) How many colleges have the same school name and mascot name? Because that's really what the OP was talking about. The Green Bay Packers Uniform Database! Now in a handy blog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichO Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 8 hours ago, Tigers6884 said: In the way back days of the NFL, there was a team called the Brooklyn Dodgers that coexisted with the baseball team of the same name. That was routine in the early NFL. Dodgers, Giants, Braves- heck the Bears are a reference to the Cubs. The Steelers started life as the Pirates. Piggybacking on the baseball teams, and playing in the same facilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Cesarano Posted June 17, 2016 Author Share Posted June 17, 2016 17 hours ago, Sykotyk said: Because if you look at the trademark, it's always in reference to the particular sport the team plays. You can't just trademark something for 'any and all things'. Microsoft ran into that with 'Windows' thinking it covered them for all computing relating aspects, and the courts decided only "Microsoft Windows" is trademarked, and Windows can be used by anyone. Trademarks are 'trade' marks. You have to specify the 'trade' and be readily distinguishable from others without vague or everyday words. Hm. So I could start a professional ping-pong team and call it the "New York Yankees", and I'd be OK simply because we are playing a different sport from those other Yankees? I don't think it's that cut-and-dried. A few years ago, the Dodgers sued a meat supplier called "Brooklyn Burger", claiming that the script in the restaurant's logo looked too much like the Dodgers' script. That wasn't even a case of someone else using the name "Dodgers", just a similar-looking script! Furthermore, that meat company was certainly in a very different business from the Dodgers. I never read how the case turned out; but the meat company appears to be still using the same logo. So we can assume that the Dodgers' effort to stop them was not successful. Still, the mere fact that the Dodgers thought that they had the grounds to try should indicate to us that that just being in a different business is not a blanket protection. I think that it's probably just a matter of all of these entities being too small for anyone to be bothered to do something about it. The WTT team can get away with using "New York Empire" where it couldn't get away with using "New York Jets", simply due to the size of the entity whose name they are borrowing. By the way, @Hat Boy pointed out that the name "New York Empire" isn't any good; and he is correct. It seems pointless to steal such a crappy thing. First of all, the name is singular, which is a disease that needs to be stamped out. (The Miami Heat are to be blamed for normalising this ridiculous trend in our day; though I am aware of the NFL's Providence Steam Roller and the ABL's Pittsburgh Renaissance, which at least had the decency to be known as the "Rens".) Also, "Empire" is a reference to the nickname of New York State; it has nothing to do with New York City. But, worst of all, "empire" is a shameful thing to identify with, considering that imperialism constitutes a terrible crime that has been perpetrated against a huge portion of the world's peoples. Notwithstanding the good aesthetics of the AUDL team's logo, I'd no sooner wear a badge that proudly proclaimed "empire" ("Yay! I'm an oppressor!") than I would a Confederate flag or a swastika. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Cesarano Posted June 17, 2016 Author Share Posted June 17, 2016 (Sorry for consecutive posts. I am a little behind in going through the notifications.) 9 hours ago, VancouverFan69 said: Toronto FC New York City FC Los Angeles FC I know that you are being cheeky; but those teams don't have the same nickname -- because none of them even has a nickname. "Football Club" is not a nickname, any more than it is in the club names Chelsea FC or Liverpool FC. Furthemore, even an MLS team that has a nickname uses the initials "FC" after that nickname: Seattle Sounders FC. This holds true even for those English clubs that have a nickname as part of their official name: Tottenham Hotspur FC, Bolton Wanderers FC, Bristol Rovers FC, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeerGuyJordan Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 19 hours ago, Sykotyk said: Because if you look at the trademark, it's always in reference to the particular sport the team plays. You can't just trademark something for 'any and all things'. Microsoft ran into that with 'Windows' thinking it covered them for all computing relating aspects, and the courts decided only "Microsoft Windows" is trademarked, and Windows can be used by anyone. Trademarks are 'trade' marks. You have to specify the 'trade' and be readily distinguishable from others without vague or everyday words. Yes and no, as Jessica described it, the trade is sports in general. You trademark the name. No one else can call themselves Microsoft Windows. We have two ECHL Thunder teams because they are the different cities. Where you run into issues is if you want to use an existing name in a city where it exists. It doesn't pertain to the NHL/NFL with Jets or Panthers (different cities), because they are both New York Empire, the naming issue becomes much more complicated. If one of the two teams has an established trademark (especially if they have the certificate of register), they could, likely, successfully stop the other one from using it. It's why so many teams get the blessing of someone holding a similar trademark. (I.E. the NWHL Connecticut Whale getting the ok from Howard Baldwin). Thunder Bay Lynx - International Hockey Association (2 seasons, 2017-18, 2019-20, 2018 Xtreme Cup Champions) | Houston Armadillos - Major League Hockey (2 seasons, 2016-18) | Minnesota Muskies - North American Basketball Association (1 season, 2017-2018) | Louisville Thoroughbreds - United League of Baseball (1 season, 2017, 2017 United Cup Champions) | Las Vegas Thunderbirds - International Basketball League (1 season, 2016-17, 2017 Champions) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeerGuyJordan Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 To expand a little bit more. Legally, the name is for your specific sport, but the "brand confusion" and "brand integrity" aspects, in practice and execution, covers you for all sports and often beyond. Thunder Bay Lynx - International Hockey Association (2 seasons, 2017-18, 2019-20, 2018 Xtreme Cup Champions) | Houston Armadillos - Major League Hockey (2 seasons, 2016-18) | Minnesota Muskies - North American Basketball Association (1 season, 2017-2018) | Louisville Thoroughbreds - United League of Baseball (1 season, 2017, 2017 United Cup Champions) | Las Vegas Thunderbirds - International Basketball League (1 season, 2016-17, 2017 Champions) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VancouverFan69 Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 2 hours ago, Ferdinand Cesarano said: (Sorry for consecutive posts. I am a little behind in going through the notifications.) I know that you are being cheeky; but those teams don't have the same nickname -- because none of them even has a nickname. "Football Club" is not a nickname, any more than it is in the club names Chelsea FC or Liverpool FC. Furthemore, even an MLS team that has a nickname uses the initials "FC" after that nickname: Seattle Sounders FC. This holds true even for those English clubs that have a nickname as part of their official name: Tottenham Hotspur FC, Bolton Wanderers FC, Bristol Rovers FC, etc. I was being both cheeky and but serious at the same time about those clubs wrongfully not having a team name in a North American sports league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vman Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 If we get away from North America, it's a fairly common thing to have teams with the same name across different sports. Just off the top of my head in Russia there's football (soccer), hockey and in some cases basketball versions of teams like Spartak, Dynamo, CSKA, SKA, etc, and they're all a lot more professional than these glorified beer-league Empire teams, while creating next to no confusion among fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Cesarano Posted June 17, 2016 Author Share Posted June 17, 2016 31 minutes ago, vman said: If we get away from North America, it's a fairly common thing to have teams with the same name across different sports. Just off the top of my head in Russia there's football (soccer), hockey and in some cases basketball versions of teams like Spartak, Dynamo, CSKA, SKA, etc, and they're all a lot more professional than these glorified beer-league Empire teams, while creating next to no confusion among fans. Right, but in those cases, all the teams are part of the same sporting organisation. This is true also for Barcelona's teams in basketball and handball, as well as for Atletico Madrid's handball team, Bestiktas's basketball team, and many others. That is not what is going on here with the two teams called New York Empire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont care Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 23 minutes ago, Ferdinand Cesarano said: Right, but in those cases, all the teams are part of the same sporting organisation. This is true also for Barcelona's teams in basketball and handball, as well as for Atletico Madrid's handball team, Bestiktas's basketball team, and many others. That is not what is going on here with the two teams called New York Empire. but all those teams are owned by the parent club barcelona and atletico madrid and real madrid ect... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Cesarano Posted June 17, 2016 Author Share Posted June 17, 2016 7 minutes ago, dont care said: but all those teams are owned by the parent club barcelona and atletico madrid and real madrid ect... That is precisely what I said, so as to distinguish those cases (as well as the cases of CSKA and the others) from this case of the two New York Empire teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont care Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 im dumb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popmart Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 The AHL had the Milwaukee Admirals & Norfolk Admirals for many years. There was also NHL Pittsburgh Pirates alongside the baseball club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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