Gothamite Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 5 hours ago, Bill81361 said: MOD EDIT The Green Bay Packers Uniform Database! Now in a handy blog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian in Boston Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 52 minutes ago, Bill81361 said: The difference, as I see it, between the use of Native American-themed team identities and that of the Fighting Irish is quite simple. By and large, in this country, the people who have historically made the decisions to brand various professional, college, and high school athletic teams with Native American names and iconography have not been Native Americans themselves. Rather, they've been Caucasians who have misappropriated names and symbols tied to Native American culture and elected to use said cultural property - often, deeply meaningful to the tribal nations it belongs to - to market what amounts to a fairly frivolous pursuit... the staging of athletic competition. Worse still, is when non-Native Americans have passed off bastardized and caricatured takes - i.e. Chief Wahoo - on purported Native American culture in order to brand athletic teams and programs. The Notre Dame Fighting Irish? Historically, a significant percentage of the people calling the shots about adopting, embracing and maintaining said identity have been of Irish American extraction themselves. So, it isn't as if Irish culture has been misappropriated and twisted by members of some other culture altogether. Rather, at most, it can be argued that a not insignificant number of Irish Americans have been complicit in bastardizing their own culture by championing the Fighting Irish brand. Also, utilizing a mythical creature - the leprechaun - as a mascot is a bit different than using depictions of actual Native Americans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sodboy13 Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 First Take, that American cornerstone of sports journalism without sensationalism. Max Kellerman needs to go back to boxing where nobody needs to hear what he has to say, even by accident. On 1/25/2013 at 1:53 PM, 'Atom said: For all the bird de lis haters I think the bird de lis isnt supposed to be a pelican and a fleur de lis I think its just a fleur de lis with a pelicans head. Thats what it looks like to me. Also the flair around the tip of the beak is just flair that fleur de lis have sometimes source I am from NOLA. PotD: 10/19/07, 08/25/08, 07/22/10, 08/13/10, 04/15/11, 05/19/11, 01/02/12, and 01/05/12. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carolingian Steamroller Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 It's a separate matter whether or not Dan Snyder can be compelled to not use Redskins. Dropping that name is still the right thing to do. We've seen it time and again that fanbases eventually get over the name change. Marquette got over it, St. John's got over it, Miami (OH) got over it. The second that Washington Redtails make the Super Bowl all the belly aching goes out the window. As it stands right now, the Washington football club gets its public perception periodically dragged through the mud every fall when the rest of the country rolls its eyes at how dumb it is to still be using a slur for the team name. Change then name and all that goes away permanently and 5 years and one playoff birth later nobody will care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Admiral Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 2 minutes ago, Carolingian Steamroller said: As it stands right now, the Washington football club gets its public perception periodically dragged through the mud every fall when the rest of the country rolls its eyes at how dumb it is to still be using a slur for the team name. Most of the country doesn't really care. It's just a media-junkie cause. Lots of people don't even like sports. ♫ oh yeah, board goes on, long after the thrill of postin' is gone ♫ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carolingian Steamroller Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 13 minutes ago, the admiral said: Most of the country doesn't really care. It's just a media-junkie cause. Lots of people don't even like sports. It's still embarrassing PR that necessitates periodic push back and it keeps building in pressure. Ditching Redskins isn't going to hurt the franchise in the long run. Why bother coping with the hassle every few months when there's no long term cost to changing the name? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianLion Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 the comparisons of Wahoo to either the Notre Dame or Vikings logo are so purposefully ignorant and have been dealt with and dismissed so many times before, I don't know why you keep dignifying them when they get regurgitated YET AGAIN with any kind of response? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Admiral Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Crackerjack point, the team has no brand equity whatsoever and has only kept all this stuff around for the past 40 years because every time they try to order new stuff, they get put on hold, "The Girl From Ipanema" plays for 20 minutes, and the guy from the marketing department gets frustrated and hangs up, it's as cherished an annual tradition there as signing a player who busts. ♫ oh yeah, board goes on, long after the thrill of postin' is gone ♫ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glover Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 https://www.irishcentral.com/opinion/others/outdated-and-offensive-the-redskins-and-notre-dames-leprechaun-229519311-238259701 Quote The Irish have long been portrayed as unintelligent, drunken brawlers and many feel that the Fighting Irish logo only helps to foster this stereotypical image.“I think you are going to see a movement to replace that silly looking leprechaun with something more respectable,” said Sean K. an Irish American College student, who currently attends NYU. “That image of Irish Americans is not only far outdated but also offensive,” remarked the student. Didn't anyone tell them the Irish name/logo isn't offensive? I guess they'll just have to suck it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carolingian Steamroller Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 There's equity there, but its not invaluable (if anything the color scheme has far more value). Time and again we see sports organizations that change names or logos recover their equity with fans in a comparatively short time. Especially if the team wins championships. The cost to keep that particular name, over the long term, exceeds the costs of changing the name in the short term. The 2000 Flying Elvis New England Patriots design is one of the stupidest looking logo/uniform combinations in all of sports. It's infinitely inferior to the Pat Patriot era in almost every conceivable way. None of that matters, however, because they've won 5 Super Bowls in those ugly uniforms. If Washington ditches the name and wins football games, nobody is jumping off the bandwagon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill0813 Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 4 hours ago, Gothamite said: Hey look - you found an ESPN talking head taking a provocative stand looking for attention. That must have taken a while. MOD EDIT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skip88 Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 4 hours ago, Gothamite said: Hey look - you found an ESPN talking head taking a provocative stand looking for attention. That must have taken a while. MOD EDIT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gothamite Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 3 hours ago, Bill81361 said: Oh look, more witty repertoire with a cutting sense of flair only someone from NY can deliver. Have another mic drop on me. Feel free to send more offline. MOD EDIT The Green Bay Packers Uniform Database! Now in a handy blog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gothamite Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 3 hours ago, skip88 said: MOD EDIT Not at all. And when Leprechaun-Americans issue their press release against Notre Dame's logo, I will gladly listen to them. The Green Bay Packers Uniform Database! Now in a handy blog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CS85 Posted January 30, 2018 Author Share Posted January 30, 2018 MOD EDIT Quote "You are nothing more than a small cancer on this message board. You are not entertaining, you are a complete joke." twitter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill0813 Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 3 hours ago, Gothamite said: MOD EDIT MOD EDIT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skip88 Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 2 minutes ago, Gothamite said: Not at all. And when Leprechaun-Americans issue their press release against Notre Dame's logo, I will gladly listen to them. They are called the fighting Irish, and the mascot is someone putting their fists up. Even more stereotypical and racist than a smiling Indian. Cleveland should not have gotten rid of Wahoo, they could have changed his overly red skin to the skin tone of the Chicago Blackhawks logo. A nice compromise, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CS85 Posted January 30, 2018 Author Share Posted January 30, 2018 3 hours ago, skip88 said: They are called the fighting Irish, and the mascot is someone putting their fists up. Even more stereotypical and racist than a smiling Indian. Cleveland should not have gotten rid of Wahoo, they could have changed his overly red skin to the skin tone of the Chicago Blackhawks logo. A nice compromise, MOD EDIT Quote "You are nothing more than a small cancer on this message board. You are not entertaining, you are a complete joke." twitter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan33 Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 So much for the "slippery slope fallacy." Maybe if I google it again . All joking aside though, you can think Chief Wahoo is a racist caricature (and a bad logo aesthetically), be glad that it's gone and still be worried about it having an effect on other logos and names. It doesn't have to be one or the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnWis97 Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 4 minutes ago, skip88 said: They are called the fighting Irish, and the mascot is someone putting their fists up. Even more stereotypical and racist than a smiling Indian. Cleveland should not have gotten rid of Wahoo, they could have changed his overly red skin to the skin tone of the Chicago Blackhawks logo. A nice compromise, Irish Catholics design "Fighting Irish" logo = self-deprecating. Whites design "red faced caricature" of a marginalized race = keeping foot on throat Disclaimer: If this comment is about an NBA uniform from 2017-2018 or later, do not constitute a lack of acknowledgement of the corporate logo to mean anything other than "the corporate logo is terrible and makes the uniform significantly worse." BADGERS TWINS VIKINGS TIMBERWOLVES WILD POTD (Shared) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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