MLB Stadium Saga: Oakland/Tampa Bay/Southside

[The_Admiral]

Just now, FiddySicks said:

Rumblings, from Scott Boras of all people, that the A’s to Sac may disintegrate in the next few days. More to come, I would assume. 

Did we call it or did we call it. There were always serious concerns about this plan that never seemed to get proper consideration, i.e., is the players' union down with three years in a minor-league facility where it's hot as hell.

[The_Admiral]

Wait, they were going to play on plastic grass? on 100-degree days? Oh they gotta shut this down. You can't subject players to that, especially when you haven't even secured a permanent venue.

 

This just confirms that the A's need to stick around in Oakland and separate Fisher from the team. Promise an expansion team to Las Vegas if you have to but this has been bungled.

[GDAWG]

Manfred will find a way to keep the A's from coming back to Oakland.  He hasn't bungled anything this bad since he bungled the Astros cheating scandal.  

[FiddySicks]

6 hours ago, The_Admiral said:

Wait, they were going to play on plastic grass? on 100-degree days? Oh they gotta shut this down. You can't subject players to that, especially when you haven't even secured a permanent venue.

 

This just confirms that the A's need to stick around in Oakland and separate Fisher from the team. Promise an expansion team to Las Vegas if you have to but this has been bungled.

I used to go to a junior college just east of Sac and their very good football team played on a turf field. One of the reasons their team was very good  was because they put out guys like Brandon Aiyuk, but the other reason was the home field advantage they had. Some weeks early in the season it would get around 105 on game day (they also didn’t have lights, so they would play Saturday games at like 1 PM), and it would be like 125+ on the actual field. Other teams couldn’t keep up. Also because of that, despite them being VERY good (I think they lost the national championship my first year there), I went to maybe three games because screw catching a bad case of heat exhaustion on a Saturday. 
 

Raley field is MISERABLE for mid day games in the summer already. I wore a damn rubber gorilla suit there all summer once. But the river being close, and the grass, absolutely help. I’m not sure I even wanna go to RiverCats games anymore after hearing this. 

[The_Admiral]

I don't really follow drum and bugle corps anymore, not sure that particular activity came out of MeToo and the pandemic in one piece, but I know that they used to run practices at Texas high schools in the middle of July. I mean, they ran 'em everywhere, but in recent years they pivoted hard to touring Texas instead of the Midwest/Northeast. At least one time, they did so on plastic, surface temperatures circa 125 degrees, and a bunch of kids passed out--I think there were new rules about allowing kids to stay hydrated after that. I can't understand how high schools can spring for artificial surfaces and claim it's safer, healthier, and more cost-effective than groundskeeping. Then again, I can't imagine how human beings thought they invented a superior alternative to grass.

 

Imagine scrapping your way through the minor leagues to make it to the bigs with the A's and then you have to deal with minor-league amenities and field conditions that are now even worse than what you put up with in the minors. It's not acceptable to players. It's not acceptable to spectators, gorilla-suited or otherwise. It's barely even acceptable to television viewers, where one could mistake an MLB game for public access. I always said this would be stopped at the eleventh hour and we have come to it. Here's hoping.

[DustDevil61]

MLB has responded to these reports by basically saying "Everything's under control," and that the A's playing in Sacramento in 2025 is a "certainty." Apparently MLB is working with the MLBPA, and that MLBPA cannot veto the move.

 

This would be pretty funny to see MLB's reaction if this manages to fall apart.

[LMU]

I'm curious if "wear and tear" is really that much of an issue with a baseball field that it warrants ripping the entire field out when temperature is that much of a concern.  I'll give you football with 22 players constantly digging in play after play.  But, baseball?  Is the grass really in that much danger with three outfielders standing around most of the time with an occasional sliding catch?

[tigerslionspistonshabs]

What a fiasco this is lol. I mean, it doesn't seem like Vegas even wants the A's.  

[Dilbert]

9 hours ago, DustDevil61 said:

MLB has responded to these reports by basically saying "Everything's under control," and that the A's playing in Sacramento in 2025 is a "certainty." Apparently MLB is working with the MLBPA, and that MLBPA cannot veto the move.

 

This would be pretty funny to see MLB's reaction if this manages to fall apart.

[GDAWG]

10 hours ago, DustDevil61 said:

MLB has responded to these reports by basically saying "Everything's under control," and that the A's playing in Sacramento in 2025 is a "certainty." Apparently MLB is working with the MLBPA, and that MLBPA cannot veto the move.

 

This would be pretty funny to see MLB's reaction if this manages to fall apart.

 

If the MLBPA is as powerful as they say that they are, then they need to veto the move.  However, they have been very silent about the move.  

[The_Admiral]

I don't want to be seen as backing down from my initial prediction that this would fall apart, or as Kubler-Rossing my way through bargaining, but I can envision a scenario in which the "certainty" that the A's play in Sacramento becomes a limited schedule of home games with a good chunk of the dates booted back to the Oakland Coliseum--basically speedrunning the Islanders' Barclays/Nassau split. From there, they either straddle Northern California until Las Vegas is ready or Fisher is made to sell the team. But it seems clear that you can't stage a full major-league schedule in Sacramento.

[FrutigerAero]

On 9/6/2024 at 8:31 AM, BBTV said:

Plot twist: the Sixers are “altering the deal” to say that despite their claim of asking for $0 public money, they want a clause that says that if ANY arena built in the city gets public dollars, then they get a payment for the same amount of public money. 
 

I don’t think arenas should get public dollars, but this could be a poison pill because it ensures that NO future arena can get any public money because that money would essentially be double. It’s not likely that a new arena will be built within the next 20 years, but to me, this was a plan the whole time so that they can now guarantee that they won’t be approved but still say “hey we tried… see ya”. 

RIP James Earl Jones

[FrutigerAero]

So this is how it is: currently, the Sacramento AAA field has grass, but they are putting in artificial turf for next season?

 

The simple solution to me is to play July games at Oracle Park or something like that.

 

The Athletics move has been so bungled though. They haven't even given us proper renderings of the ballpark yet. Fisher should take the L and sell. Maybe the Nike guy will buy them and move them to portland.

[The_Admiral]

26 minutes ago, FrutigerAero said:

So this is how it is: currently, the Sacramento AAA field has grass, but they are putting in artificial turf for next season?

 

The simple solution to me is to play July games at Oracle Park or something like that.

 

That still doesn't account for clubhouse accommodations, training facilities, and other amenities that major leaguers are expected to receive.

 

1994, the roof of the Kingdome fell in and cancelled the rest of the Mariners' home games. Easy solution would have been to move the rest of the games to BC Place in Vancouver, which at the time was basically a carbon copy of the Metrodome, right? Nope, players' union wouldn't allow it and the M's had to play the rest of their home games at their opponents' parks. Sucked for them (but it was '94, so the end of the season certainly got worse), but on some level I get it. And unlike the building of the Armadillo Opera House or whatever, it wasn't as if there was uncertainty about the roof ever getting repaired.

[FrutigerAero]

20 minutes ago, The_Admiral said:

 

That still doesn't account for clubhouse accommodations, training facilities, and other amenities that major leaguers are expected to receive.

 

1994, the roof of the Kingdome fell in and cancelled the rest of the Mariners' home games. Easy solution would have been to move the rest of the games to BC Place in Vancouver, which at the time was basically a carbon copy of the Metrodome, right? Nope, players' union wouldn't allow it and the M's had to play the rest of their home games at their opponents' parks. Sucked for them (but it was '94, so the end of the season certainly got worse), but on some level I get it. And unlike the building of the Armadillo Opera House or whatever, it wasn't as if there was uncertainty about the roof ever getting repaired.

That makes sense. I'll admit I'm not going to be aware of amenities I as a fan don't ever see. I assume those are the biggest holdups.

[BBTV]

1 hour ago, FrutigerAero said:

The simple solution to me is to play July games at Oracle Park or something like that.

 

That is anything but a simple solution.

[BBTV]

Is this now a general relocation / stadium situation thread?  If so, more on the Sixers saga:

 

Was talking with a friend who up until this year has had to work with city government on funding and safety things, mostly related to non-vehicular transit, but the point is that with his various jobs, he knows some things from the inside about how some of these stadium deals and decisions are made, at least here (though he never dealt with the current mayor or council, but did work with some of the folks that are involved at some level with the recommendations.)

 

That may or may not mean anything, just that this is a little more than two doofuses BSing over some beers.  He believes that Josh Harris' plan the entire time was to spend 10s of millions of dollars "faking" plans for the arena, all in an attempt to extort New Jersey, who has recently upped the ante to the tune of $800M.  So he's going from offering to privately finance a nearly $2B project, to getting $800M for a significantly-less-expensive project... oh, and the rights to develop an entertainment district (which he obviously couldn't do in the middle of Center City, other than some token apartment tower for poor people which he doesn't intend to actually build.)

 

The last minute "poison pill" he added on to the Phila deal basically make it very hard for it to be approved (in addition to the studies... including theirs, which say "lol this is dumb") and every day the city gets closer to a decision, NJ throws more freebees at him.

 

So he's getting his discounted stadium in NJ, along with development rights (which will require either building around dilapidated-yet-occupied row homes or eminent-domaining them), and (to my knowledge... I could be wrong) even if the city approves his plan, nothing is binding and he can still take NJ's offer.

 

He also tricked Comcast into pay tons to astroturf, but also to fund legitimate protests and paying people to get everyone riled up with unsubstantiated claims that the arena will lead to so much death that the city won't have enough room to bury the bodies and will need to build a large crematory.  The cynic in me thinks that he wanted  Comcast to get them denied, so he could be like "hey... I tried".

 

This could obviously all be wrong, but more and more I think the plan from day 0 was to extort NJ.  And he's succeeded.

 

The NJ Economic Development Authority released these renders, which are completely not official (they're not provided by the team or even actual architects) and include amenities that would take decades to build, and displace poor af people, over top of a former prison.

 

The stadium is similar to the one the Sixers wanted on the Philly side of the river (along with full development rights, for which they lost a legit bidding war, but at least was a good-faith effort to stay in the city).

 

Again, this is not released by the team, and is simply NJ putting their pie-in-the-sky vision out there.

 

 

 

To compare, here's the latest official rendering of the "Chinatown Massacre" that is 76 Place:

1. Shows the poor tower, which won't actually be what they say it is, and nobody that's in that class could actually afford to live there anyway due to other expenses that come along with living in that area)

 

 

But whatever, that area has been a dumpster fire literally my whole life, so something is better than nothing, and I don't give AF about the suburbanites that are scared of trains and subways and can't understand how cities work.

 

I do care about sidewalk congestion, and think the team's suggestion of widening the sidewalks is hysterical, since they literally can't.  I also don't care about parking, and that'll work itself out once people realize how stupid driving is unless you have some accessibility issue that may necessitate it.  I also care a lot about Chinatown, but still haven't, despite the studies, seen anything concrete that shows for sure it'll kill it.  If I'm wrong, then I'll be extremely disappointed and the fabric of the city will be changed forever.

 

[VampyrRabbit]

15 hours ago, The_Admiral said:

I don't want to be seen as backing down from my initial prediction that this would fall apart, or as Kubler-Rossing my way through bargaining, but I can envision a scenario in which the "certainty" that the A's play in Sacramento becomes a limited schedule of home games with a good chunk of the dates booted back to the Oakland Coliseum--basically speedrunning the Islanders' Barclays/Nassau split. From there, they either straddle Northern California until Las Vegas is ready or Fisher is made to sell the team. But it seems clear that you can't stage a full major-league schedule in Sacramento.

Problem with going back to Oakland (well, one of them) is that the Oakland Roots are going to be playing their 2025 season in the Coliseum.  That is a lot of work that is going to be needed converting the surface from soccer to baseball (and vice versa) so many times.

[Danny the Sheeb]

This is officially the most bungled relocation in major sports history, and they haven't even left Oakland yet.  Nobody wants them, they STILL don't have a concrete plan for the stadium in Vegas, and their only real option right now is to play for an indefinite period of time in a death trap.

 

Maybe wishful thinking, but if the Sacramento thing falls through, I don't think MLB will tolerate much more of this chicanery.

[The_Admiral]

5 hours ago, VampyrRabbit said:

Problem with going back to Oakland (well, one of them) is that the Oakland Roots are going to be playing their 2025 season in the Coliseum.  That is a lot of work that is going to be needed converting the surface from soccer to baseball (and vice versa) so many times.

 

If the new Coliseum owners want to negotiate with the A's, which Boras indicated that they do, then that won't be as much of a problem.