XFL 2023: Third Time's the Charm!

[McCall]

30 minutes ago, Cujo said:

 

Actually kinda crazy he wasn't picked up after the season ended, cause he balled out in STL. He did also win XFL league MVP, right?

I believe the XFL News Hub named him MVP.

 

I'm just wondering if all these players who went to the NFL and were/get released, if they come back to the XFL.. whatever, do they automatically go back to their previous teams? Because there were a lot of Battlehawks that signed with NFL teams that will probably be looking to play again next season.

[PTrudellJr]

4 hours ago, McCall said:

I believe the XFL News Hub named him MVP.

 

I'm just wondering if all these players who went to the NFL and were/get released, if they come back to the XFL.. whatever, do they automatically go back to their previous teams? Because there were a lot of Battlehawks that signed with NFL teams that will probably be looking to play again next season.

For the XFL at least, players that were signed to NFL contracts, if they decide to return to the XFL will be assigned to their prior team.  

[GDAWG]

This new merged league should continue to be friendly to the NFL, while not being a developmental league of the NFL at the same time.  No spring football league should block anybody (players, coaches, front office and league personnel) from going to the NFL if they get an opportunity to.  As messed up as the AAF was, they did the whole "players can sign with the NFL at the end of the season" thing during the lead up to the league.  The XFL and USFL allows this as well.  Heck, a league official from the XFL left for the Cleveland Browns recently.  

[MJWalker45]

56 minutes ago, GDAWG said:

This new merged league should continue to be friendly to the NFL, while not being a developmental league of the NFL at the same time.  No spring football league should block anybody (players, coaches, front office and league personnel) from going to the NFL if they get an opportunity to.  As messed up as the AAF was, they did the whole "players can sign with the NFL at the end of the season" thing during the lead up to the league.  The XFL and USFL allows this as well.  Heck, a league official from the XFL left for the Cleveland Browns recently.  

Most leagues want their players to stay until the end of the year. What would be the outcry be if a starting QB leaves in Week 8 when they're top of the league? Keeping them past the day the season ends doesn't make sense though.

[McCall]

7 hours ago, GDAWG said:

This new merged league should continue to be friendly to the NFL, while not being a developmental league of the NFL at the same time.  No spring football league should block anybody (players, coaches, front office and league personnel) from going to the NFL if they get an opportunity to.  As messed up as the AAF was, they did the whole "players can sign with the NFL at the end of the season" thing during the lead up to the league.  The XFL and USFL allows this as well.  Heck, a league official from the XFL left for the Cleveland Browns recently.  

Actually, I think players weren't able to sign until the completion of the XFL season. USFL? Not sure. It would be worse for them since their season runs so much later in the offseason.

[gosioux76]

On 9/22/2023 at 11:15 PM, Cujo said:

 

Hub model still?? USFL just showed us that plan isn't a successful one.

 

I'm not saying I believe them, but Fox has claimed that its USFL experiment has been profitable. So if to true,  you'd have to imagine that the cost-savings from the hub model had a lot to do with it. 

 

The XFL's leadership, by contrast, claims it has lost around $60 million. And they play within their markets. 

 

I don't like the hub model either, but if the league is profitable, as Fox claims, then you can't really say the USFL hasn't created a successful model. And you can see pretty clearly why they'd prefer the hub model. 

 

The question we should be asking is how long the hub model will be necessary before the league feels comfortable it can transition into markets and maintain some of its profit margin. 

 

 

[Cujo]

Just now, gosioux76 said:

Fox has claimed that its USFL experiment has been profitable

 

It might be money-saving but it sure as hell isn't profitable. A failure. That's why they're merging with XFL.

[gosioux76]

1 hour ago, Cujo said:

 

It might be money-saving but it sure as hell isn't profitable. A failure. That's why they're merging with XFL.

All of the reporting we've seen so far on this merger suggests that merger talks were prompted by the XFL -- in particular its financier, RedBird Capital -- and not by the USFL. 

 

And unless someone here has seen the books themselves, we can't really know if the USFL turned a profit as they claim.  As such, we also don't know that they didn't. 

 

From Forbes:

Quote

The USFL’s TV numbers are slightly better than the XFL’s. It’s been playing for a year longer. Its games averaged 751,000 viewers on Fox, FS1, NBC and USA Network, and the 2022 USFL championship game drew an average of 1.5 million viewers. The league will play its 2023 championship game in July. NBC Sports’ Jon Miller called the USFL a “profitable property” and Fox executive Mike Mulvihill told Sports Business Journal that the networks demonstrated that spring football works at the viewership levels of the Premier League, the NHL regular season, Formula One and MLS.

 

[McCall]

1 hour ago, gosioux76 said:

All of the reporting we've seen so far on this merger suggests that merger talks were prompted by the XFL -- in particular its financier, RedBird Capital -- and not by the USFL. 

 

And unless someone here has seen the books themselves, we can't really know if the USFL turned a profit as they claim.  As such, we also don't know that they didn't. 

 

From Forbes:

 

Average viewership ended up roughly the same (https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/xfl-usfl-tv-ratings-finish-in-a-dead-heat), but the XFL Championship outperformed the USFL Championship (https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/usfl-championship-ratings-fall-short-of-xfl-championship-ratings). Plus, the USFL actually saw a decline in viewership from 2022 to 2023. Could be largely due to people tiring of the hub model. And the XFL reaching out to the USFL doesn't necessarily mean they were desperate for the USFL to rescue them (despite what some idiots on TwiX say). Could've been the XFL saw an opportunity for both to succeed by merging.

[gosioux76]

1 hour ago, McCall said:

Average viewership ended up roughly the same (https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/xfl-usfl-tv-ratings-finish-in-a-dead-heat), but the XFL Championship outperformed the USFL Championship (https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/usfl-championship-ratings-fall-short-of-xfl-championship-ratings). Plus, the USFL actually saw a decline in viewership from 2022 to 2023. Could be largely due to people tiring of the hub model. And the XFL reaching out to the USFL doesn't necessarily mean they were desperate for the USFL to rescue them (despite what some idiots on TwiX say). Could've been the XFL saw an opportunity for both to succeed by merging.

All of this is true. But none of it speaks directly to profitability.

 

The original suggestion I was refuting was that the USFL and its hub model was a failure. I'm just pointing out that, as much as we don't like it, there's no evidence to back that up. There are, however, public proclamations that the USFL has been a profitable venture for Fox. 

 

You're 100% right that the XFL could have pursued this merger idea out of opportunity and not desperation; I can't argue otherwise. I wasn't attempting to assign reasoning for the XFL to do this, I was just pointing out that it wasn't the USFL that broached the subject. 

[gosioux76]

BREAKING: The XFL and USFL just confirmed their merger, but offered ZERO details. 

 

 

Quote

 

XFL AND USFL ANNOUNCE INTENT TO MERGE

 

NEW YORK – September 28, 2023 – Today, the United States Football League (“USFL”) and the XFL announced their intention to merge.

 

Subject to customary regulatory approvals and if the transaction is consummated, the new league will establish best-in-class operations based on the most recent seasons of both leagues.  This historic combination will anchor professional spring football with substantial capabilities and resources to ensure future growth and continue to enhance the development of the collective players, coaches, and staff that are coming together. 

 

More details regarding the new league will be announced at a later date. 

 

 

[walkerws]

On 9/19/2023 at 9:33 PM, BBTV said:

draft HS seniors, overpay them to play for 2 seasons (if they're drafted) and maybe a couple more (if they're not drafted but still have potential.)  

This will always be a bad idea when dealing with some men who are looking for that last cup of coffee. They might bend a knee just to make a roster, and then that kid is screwed for life. 

[MJWalker45]

On 9/19/2023 at 11:42 AM, gosioux76 said:

 

Even if this were true, the Gamblers are only a few small moves away from matching the simple but outstanding look of their USFL 1.0 brethren. That G logo is an icon of the USFL. 

That logo was the only good thing for the Gamblers 2.0. The team was one of the worst in the new league, and the wide stripes up the sides haven't been a good look for a while now. 

 

The new Roughneck logos were an improvement, but the 2023 uniform was a mess. Especially the helmet. 

 

[HOOVER]

I still believe Football is a Fall Sport.  Spring football leagues are unlikely to ever catch on or last.  

When this was all starting up a few years ago, I suggested that it run alongside the NFL in the Fall. 

 

If the NFL would just partner with this league, the developmental league would be the perfect Thursday night football solution.  16 teams, each team a farm team for 2 NFL teams, who would have a limited number of "call-ups" each season.  Or, just go with 32 full developmental teams, either in nearby markets to their NFL big brother, or in underserved markets (St. Louis, San Diego, Birmingham, San Antonio, Orlando, etc.) or even international markets (London, Mexico City, Toronto).

 

- NFLPA could get a win by having the 32 NFL teams go back to playing on Sunday & Monday.  Developmental league plays on Thursday nights with a doubleheader,  games divided up by geographic markets.

 

- NFL head coaches could choose the staff members of their farm team and have them run similar systems & language so players could assimilate faster if called up, all the while developing coaches by giving them head coaching & coordinator experience (like a Junior Varsity or Junior High program).   

 

- Developmental team players would have the same offseason schedules to try to catch on in free agency for OTAs, minicamps, training camp and the main roster.  Their season would end on or before New Year's Eve, and the players would then be eligible for NFL playoff teams for the playoff run.

Spitballing here.  Not perfect, but makes more sense than what Spring Football is now.  People just don't have the appetite for football in Spring the way they do in the Fall.

[McCall]

4 minutes ago, HOOVER said:

Spitballing here.  Not perfect, but makes more sense than what Spring Football is now.  People  I  just don't have the appetite for football in Spring the way they  I do in the Fall.

FTFY

[HOOVER]

3 minutes ago, McCall said:

FTFY

Numbers don’t lie.  Neither does history.

[McCall]

4 minutes ago, HOOVER said:

Numbers don’t lie.  Neither does history.

If you don't like it, then don't watch it. It doesn't have any affect on you. And a development league in the fall would be far more minor league than this. The NFL is not going to give up the Thursday night slot for a minor league game. College AND High School football would dominate if they tried to play on Fridays or Saturdays. That would really only leave Tuesdays/Wednesdays for any type of national exposure.

[GDAWG]

Spring football might work (key word here is might) is if instead of targeting guys who were cut by the NFL and didn't make it, they try to sign former college football players who were kicked out of their schools, but didn't meet the "three years out of high school" that would make them eligible to play in the NFL.  The key word here is "might."  It might not work.

[HOOVER]

44 minutes ago, McCall said:

If you don't like it, then don't watch it. It doesn't have any affect on you. And a development league in the fall would be far more minor league than this. The NFL is not going to give up the Thursday night slot for a minor league game. College AND High School football would dominate if they tried to play on Fridays or Saturdays. That would really only leave Tuesdays/Wednesdays for any type of national exposure.

I'm sorry your feelings are still hurt over my critique of your position the other day.  It'll be okay.

[gosioux76]

1 hour ago, HOOVER said:

I still believe Football is a Fall Sport.  Spring football leagues are unlikely to ever catch on or last.  

When this was all starting up a few years ago, I suggested that it run alongside the NFL in the Fall. 

 

If the NFL would just partner with this league, the developmental league would be the perfect Thursday night football solution.  16 teams, each team a farm team for 2 NFL teams, who would have a limited number of "call-ups" each season.  Or, just go with 32 full developmental teams, either in nearby markets to their NFL big brother, or in underserved markets (St. Louis, San Diego, Birmingham, San Antonio, Orlando, etc.) or even international markets (London, Mexico City, Toronto).

 

- NFLPA could get a win by having the 32 NFL teams go back to playing on Sunday & Monday.  Developmental league plays on Thursday nights with a doubleheader,  games divided up by geographic markets.

 

- NFL head coaches could choose the staff members of their farm team and have them run similar systems & language so players could assimilate faster if called up, all the while developing coaches by giving them head coaching & coordinator experience (like a Junior Varsity or Junior High program).   

 

- Developmental team players would have the same offseason schedules to try to catch on in free agency for OTAs, minicamps, training camp and the main roster.  Their season would end on or before New Year's Eve, and the players would then be eligible for NFL playoff teams for the playoff run.

Spitballing here.  Not perfect, but makes more sense than what Spring Football is now.  People just don't have the appetite for football in Spring the way they do in the Fall.

 

Sounds like a great idea, until you realize that the NFL has no need or apparent desire to have a league like this exist. It certainly doesn't want to cede any potential TV air time to a minor league, even if it's a feeder to its own product. 

 

If they wanted it this badly, they'd have adopted it stateside 20 years ago rather than letting the NFL Europe fold. 

Edited September 28, 2023 by gosioux76