XFL 2023: Third Time's the Charm!

[MJWalker45]

2 hours ago, McCall said:

Why would you drop San Antonio? That makes no sense. They've been one of the top draws for spring football. Had the highest attendance in the AAF and outdrew both Arlington and Houston in 2023 by almost 3k, which was largely only that close due to poor scheduling. San Antonio would definitely stay.

 

And no change to the Battlehawks colors.

 

1 hour ago, HOOVER said:

Didn’t really want to; it was more or less the fact that Texas already had Dallas and Houston and I wanted to have more balance on the West Coast.  This is my “ideal” scenario to achieve some geographic goals and lay out divisions, short-term and long-term.

Trying to make teams make geographic sense is good when creating a league. But when those teams exist, and have better fan support than 80% of the other teams, you don't get rid of them to do that. In a league that will continue to have every team train in Arlington/Dallas, getting rid of a team that you can have bus down the road instead of fly out makes no sense. I also wonder if XFL 2.0 or 3.0 even have the rights to 1.0 teams still. I also don't think you need to change Orlando over to the Thunderbolts when that was for another location. Vegas only works if they get inside Allegiant Stadium, or the Las Vegas Lights are fine with making changes to the field that help out the Vipers. 

 

24 minutes ago, HOOVER said:

On another note...this league, literally on Day 1 of a merger, needs to reach out to 2K Sports to develop a new football video game.  Madden is trash, but you could really build some loyalty to teams and the league by putting out a great game. 

2K has a NFL license but still hasn't put out a new game yet. They also can't make it a simulation style game, which may be the reason we haven't seen a game yet. I would hope they could use this as a test run to go up against Madden once again.  The league also needs to get more gear for sale, online and at the stadiums. And get authentic UA gear, not just whatever group makes fan gear now. 

 

1 hour ago, HOOVER said:

I agree, and if you’ve got 16 teams, that’s going to be a longer season, so you want to wrap up earlier and avoid the heat at the end of the season in the late Spring/early Summer.  The league needs to kick off the week of, or week after, the Super Bowl…or maybe even Pro Bowl week.

I think a 12 week regular season is going to be the max they go with, in addition to two weeks of playoffs before the title game. They'll probably keep that 10 week season though. 

 

[CS85]

I don't think you should have an overly long XFL season/playoff.  It's gotta be a really big pain to market since so many of the talents year-to-year are either going to the NFL as backups/filler/practice squadders.  The key is to really engage the fan bases that care (as in, get St. Louis into the goddamn playoffs) and show crowds that are supportive.  Nobody feels the call to join a fandom when there's nobody there to give a rat's ass.

[gosioux76]

13 hours ago, BBTV said:

When they say "merger", I bet they mean that one side is liquidating assets which will be absorbed by the other, who will then discard whatever they don't want/need (including players), and then basically start over as a new league.

 

This will almost certainly be the case.  All of these merged-league realignment theories are fantasy, I hate to say it. There's no logical reason why a supposed profitable entity (USFL) would merge with one losing $60 million a year as part of an expansion strategy. Deals like that are usually asset transactions, where the buyer gets what it wants from the seller and discards the rest. In this case, I'd suspect the USFL is buying out RedBird from its XFL investment so it can instead invest in its league. 

 

I hope I'm wrong, but I'll really be surprised if this results in a 16-team league. If the plan is to have this merged league in place for the 2024 season, they'd have only 5-6 months to figure out what to do about franchise locations and venues, and somehow find the capital to finance it all. 

 

If you believe what Fox says, the USFL is the profitable one in this deal, which means they'd be the one steering the direction of this merged league. And remember, the USFL is the league that used hubs as a cost-cutting strategy. 

 

Knowing all that, my prediction is that this will result in a league of no more than 12 teams. Like the USFL, it will be a made-for-TV product that will continue to play in hubs rather than host cities for at least two more seasons. 

[HOOVER]

26 minutes ago, CS85 said:

The BASS guys and myself all 100% endorse there being some AAF inclusion.  

Combine XFL & USFL in 2024, then expand in 2025 with the new league acquiring the IP to the AAF.  Add the following teams/markets to get to 20 teams for the '25 season:

 

Atlanta Legends

Salt Lake Stallions*

San Antonio Commanders
San Diego Fleet

*I wanted to add Salt Lake, but we already have Stallions in Birmingham and we need a new team in the North division; adding Salt Lake would also crowd the West division.  I'd opt for a new franchise in Boston, Buffalo, Chicago, or New York.

Per my prior post, new divisions could look like this:

 

NORTH DIVISION

Michigan Panthers (USFL)

New Jersey Generals (USFL)

Pittsburgh Maulers (USFL)

Philadelphia Stars (USFL)

*New Boston/Buffalo/Chicago/New York franchise using Blitz, Breakers, Enforcers, Hitmen, or Guardians identities, or a remaining AAF brand (Hotshots or Iron, rather than Apollos or Express)

 

EAST DIVISION

Atlanta Legends (AAF)

DC Defenders (XFL)

Orlando Thunderbolts (XFL)

St. Louis Battlehawks (XFL)

Tampa Bay Bandits (USFL)

 

SOUTH DIVISION

Birmingham Stallions (USFL)

Dallas Renegades (XFL)

Houston Gamblers (USFL)

Memphis Showboats (USFL)

San Antonio Commanders (AAF)

 

WEST DIVISION

Las Vegas Brahmas (XFL)

Oakland Outlaws (XFL)

San Diego Fleet (AAF)

San Francisco Demons (XFL)

Seattle Sea Dragons (XFL)

[HOOVER]

9 minutes ago, gosioux76 said:

 

This will almost certainly be the case.  All of these merged-league realignment theories are fantasy, I hate to say it. There's no logical reason why a supposed profitable entity (USFL) would merge with one losing $60 million a year as part of an expansion strategy. Deals like that are usually asset transactions, where the buyer gets what it wants from the seller and discards the rest. In this case, I'd suspect the USFL is buying out RedBird from its XFL investment so it can instead invest in its league. 

 

I hope I'm wrong, but I'll really be surprised if this results in a 16-team league. If the plan is to have this merged league in place for the 2024 season, they'd have only 5-6 months to figure out what to do about franchise locations and venues, and somehow find the capital to finance it all. 

 

If you believe what Fox says, the USFL is the profitable one in this deal, which means they'd be the one steering the direction of this merged league. And remember, the USFL is the league that used hubs as a cost-cutting strategy. 

 

Knowing all that, my prediction is that this will result in a league of no more than 12 teams. Like the USFL, it will be a made-for-TV product that will continue to play in hubs rather than host cities for at least two more seasons. 

All of this is logical.  But my question is then:  what does the USFL gain by buying out the XFL? 

 

Why not just keep operating at a profit and let the XFL go out of business, and be the last man standing?  If not to create an expansion, why do the deal at all?

[gosioux76]

6 minutes ago, HOOVER said:

All of this is logical.  But my question is then:  what does the USFL gain by buying out the XFL? 

 

RedBird Capital as an investor.  Possibly an existing TV deal with Disney/ESPN/ABC. A successful franchise in the St. Louis market. 

 

The XFL isn't without its attractive assets. In this case, the whole isn't as valuable as portions of its parts. 

[CS85]

19 minutes ago, HOOVER said:

Combine XFL & USFL in 2024, then expand in 2025 with the new league acquiring the IP to the AAF.  Add the following teams/markets to get to 20 teams for the '25 season:

 

Atlanta Legends

Salt Lake Stallions*

San Antonio Commanders
San Diego Fleet

*I wanted to add Salt Lake, but we already have Stallions in Birmingham and we need a new team in the North division; adding Salt Lake would also crowd the West division.  I'd opt for a new franchise in Boston, Buffalo, Chicago, or New York.

Per my prior post, new divisions could look like this:

 

NORTH DIVISION

Michigan Panthers (USFL)

New Jersey Generals (USFL)

Pittsburgh Maulers (USFL)

Philadelphia Stars (USFL)

*New Boston/Buffalo/Chicago/New York franchise using Blitz, Breakers, Enforcers, Hitmen, or Guardians identities, or a remaining AAF brand (Hotshots or Iron, rather than Apollos or Express)

 

EAST DIVISION

Atlanta Legends (AAF)

DC Defenders (XFL)

Orlando Thunderbolts (XFL)

St. Louis Battlehawks (XFL)

Tampa Bay Bandits (USFL)

 

SOUTH DIVISION

Birmingham Stallions (USFL)

Dallas Renegades (XFL)

Houston Gamblers (USFL)

Memphis Showboats (USFL)

San Antonio Commanders (AAF)

 

WEST DIVISION

Las Vegas Brahmas (XFL)

Oakland Outlaws (XFL)

San Diego Fleet (AAF)

San Francisco Demons (XFL)

Seattle Sea Dragons (XFL)

 

The talent pool would be so spread out.  It could be comically bad football, but clearly the nation doesn't care about quality so much as quantity.

[HOOVER]

11 minutes ago, CS85 said:

 

The talent pool would be so spread out.  It could be comically bad football, but clearly the nation doesn't care about quality so much as quantity.

Agree.  It would be semi-pro bush league stuff at this point.

 

Another reason to license out the property as a video game; would be fun to play, not so much to watch.

[HOOVER]

15 minutes ago, gosioux76 said:

 

RedBird Capital as an investor.  Possibly an existing TV deal with Disney/ESPN/ABC. A successful franchise in the St. Louis market. 

 

The XFL isn't without its attractive assets. In this case, the whole isn't as valuable as portions of its parts. 

Got it.  RedBird cuts its losses a little bit but stays in the game and the USFL picks up capital infusion.   Cut league down to 10-12 teams, keeping Top 5-6 from each?

 

What might be most interesting is what happens with the TV deals.  Isn’t Fox the principal owner of the USFL?

[gosioux76]

2 minutes ago, HOOVER said:

Isn’t Fox the principal owner of the USFL?

 

Yes, but it wouldn't surprise me if, as owner, they saw value in expanding the exposure of the league across other networks.  It's also possible that the XFL's TV deal isn't of value to them at all. 

 

The XFL also has a partnership with the NFL to be a testing ground for new rules, innovations, etc. That affiliation could be of value to the USFL. 

[MJWalker45]

34 minutes ago, HOOVER said:

Got it.  RedBird cuts its losses a little bit but stays in the game and the USFL picks up capital infusion.   Cut league down to 10-12 teams, keeping Top 5-6 from each?

 

What might be most interesting is what happens with the TV deals.  Isn’t Fox the principal owner of the USFL?

For the moment it looks like they want to keep all 16 teams up and running. So moving teams would make more sense. 

For teams that get moved to new non-USFL cities, these identities are also available, though I'd change the Jousters to Knights.

[HOOVER]

From what I'm reading today, it sounds like it'll be a 50/50 ownership split between Dwayne/Dani/RedBird and Fox, with Disney (ESPN, ABC, FX) & Fox then splitting the broadcast rights.  Might leave NBC/USA out in the cold.

[McCall]

3 minutes ago, HOOVER said:

From what I'm reading today, it sounds like it'll be a 50/50 ownership split between Dwayne/Dani/RedBird and Fox, with Disney (ESPN, ABC, FX) & Fox then splitting the broadcast rights.  Might leave NBC/USA out in the cold.

This gives me a bit of a NFL-AFL to NFC-AFC vibes. Could see a conference split with one of the Houston teams relocating to another city.

[GDAWG]

 

[McCall]

27 minutes ago, GDAWG said:

 

I'm guessing the Vipers would be cut since they technically don't even have a home, as well as one of the Houston teams. I could see one of the north USFL teams who played in a hub getting axed, as well.

[Sodboy13]

3 hours ago, HOOVER said:

From what I'm reading today, it sounds like it'll be a 50/50 ownership split between Dwayne/Dani/RedBird and Fox, with Disney (ESPN, ABC, FX) & Fox then splitting the broadcast rights.  Might leave NBC/USA out in the cold.

 

Did we ever find out if the NBC Universal portion of the broadcast rights was a brokered agreement?

 

As for the new amalgamation, calling it now: Eight teams, 10 games, run however it's cheapest to do so. Hope you like Birmingham.

[MJWalker45]

5 minutes ago, Sodboy13 said:

 

Did we ever find out if the NBC Universal portion of the broadcast rights was a brokered agreement?

 

As for the new amalgamation, calling it now: Eight teams, 10 games, run however it's cheapest to do so. Hope you like Birmingham.

I would expect more than 8 teams going forward, otherwise what's the advantage of a merger? Dropping the two worst teams in each league gets you 12 teams, but other than Vegas who gets dropped from the XFL? Orlando? Pittsburgh getting dropped makes sense due to lack of a home stadium, the Generals are a bigger name in USFL lore and could just be rebranded as the Canton Generals if they can't play at Red Bull Arena. 

[McCall]

I saw on Twitter, er, X, that teams without home stadiums could be in trouble. So Vegas and some of the hub-only teams might get nixed. Although I'm sure a team in Canton could be in. That could theoretically leave 12 teams in the new league.

 

EDIT: James Larsen was the one who said "Hearing that organizations without venues currently secured are in hot water."

[Cujo]

1 hour ago, GDAWG said:

 

10-12 teams seems more manageable. 

 

So get rid of one of the Houston teams and all the homeless teams that played at a USFL hub. How many teams does that leave the UXFL with? Cause that's who goes thru.

[TBGKon]

28 minutes ago, Cujo said:

 

10-12 teams seems more manageable. 

 

So get rid of one of the Houston teams and all the homeless teams that played at a USFL hub. How many teams does that leave the UXFL with? Cause that's who goes thru.

Vegas and one of the Houston teams seem like easy cuts.  Seattle could be a cut for only geography alone.  After that I'd think Pittsburgh is possibly a cut unless they rebrand as Ohio.  That gets you to 12.