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Negative space

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Or is it just too vague? I mean take a look at the infamous FedEx arrow or the "11" in the Big Ten. Is it too hard to do and not mess up the rest of the logo? Or just a waste overall? I think if done right, it might not be a bad thing to see more of.

BIG10.jpg

19_N_News_FedExLogo_L.jpg

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it's good if you could see the logo every day for a full year without noticing it... like fedex, or the hartford whalers.

but the big 10 thing is just annoying. everyone can see it, and it's not really all that clever...

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it's good if you could see the logo every day for a full year without noticing it... like fedex, or the hartford whalers.

but the big 10 thing is just annoying. everyone can see it, and it's not really all that clever...

I don't know--I saw the Whalers' "H" right away...

But that doesn't mean it wasn't a cool logo--because it's one of my all time favorites...

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it's good if you could see the logo every day for a full year without noticing it... like fedex, or the hartford whalers.

but the big 10 thing is just annoying. everyone can see it, and it's not really all that clever...

I don't know--I saw the Whalers' "H" right away...

But that doesn't mean it wasn't a cool logo--because it's one of my all time favorites...

i didn't say you HAD to see it a full year before noticing :)

if it's subtle enough that you could not notice a negative-space element, without being considered retarded or blind, then it's a great thing to have.

but if it starts to interfere with the actual logo (like taking a chunk out of the letter T), i think it's best to forget about it.

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The FedEx arrow occurs on any logo which has the letters Ex in it somewhere... so I don't REALLY think it counts.

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The FedEx arrow occurs on any logo which has the letters Ex in it somewhere... so I don't REALLY think it counts.

But the arrow was intentionally done. Someone had posted an interview with the designer here a few months ago.

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i think it's ok. except when your confrence is called Big Ten and has 11 teams. why not Big Eleven (or 12?) the negative space doesn't make sence for that logo.

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I don't understand your question with this post.

Is it hard to do without messing up the logo? Yes. Its impossibly hard. It takes a supremely deft and talented hand to implement dual imagery using negative space. And half the time there is a touch of serendipity involved.

First of all, the FedEx arrow doesn't just "appear" whenever you type e and X together. That font was modified ever so slightly to lraise the crossbar on the E so that the edges line up flush. Then the kerning to bring them together to touching to actually form the arrow. The best designs seem simple and obvious and sort of......oh yeah.......duh. But they are the most difficult to produce.

The Big Ten is a brand name now for their conference. If Hines 57 adds or removes more flavors (which they have) they stick with their established brand. The addition of the 11 may not be quite as natural as the FedEx or Whalers logos, but it is still very effective and a lot harder to pull off than it looks.

Thats a grand total of three super well known ones. I don't understand if you're asking that this is rampant and overdone? The Wild have pulled off dual imagery but not with letterforms....instead turning their creature into a bit of scenery with the river, trees and shooting star.

These designs are precious moments of inspiration not likely to be easily duplicated.

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it's good if you could see the logo every day for a full year without noticing it... like fedex, or the hartford whalers.

but the big 10 thing is just annoying. everyone can see it, and it's not really all that clever...

I agree! I didn't catch the FexEx arrow for years. Same with the Milwaukee Brewers old mit logo.

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I don't understand if you're asking that this is rampant and overdone? The Wild have pulled off dual imagery but not with letterforms....instead turning their creature into a bit of scenery with the river, trees and shooting star.

No, I was asking why isn't it done more.

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Another reason it's not done more is that some designs look forced and out-of-whack if their obviously manipulated to make something appear in the negative space. In the FedEx logo, the middle bar of the E was raised ever-so-slightly, that it hardly looks like anything was done at all. Now, if a different font were used for that logo (lets say Broadway for example), it would be much more obvious that the E was manipulated so the arrow would appear.

The magic of a negative shape is due to its subtlety. Like the Brewers M-B-Ball-in-glove logo, or the M-D-B whatever of the Expos. It's not that hard to use negative space effectively, but it's almost genius to do it like the FedEx arrow.

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No, I was asking why isn't it done more.

Aaaaaaaaaah! gotcha.

Its not done more because its impossible. Like slapshot said. Its easy to try, but genius to use with the appropriate subtely and effectiveness.

Negative space is used to the benefit of all work all the time. Don't be confused. Every good design ever is at least fundamentally aware of negative space. Negative space used "representationally" as an object, letter or the like, is whats rare.

And its for the best. When its wrong and forced it is tediously obvious and lame. It can drag a concept down faster than anything else.

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Although both are great, I actually like the Big 10 one better then the FedEx one. The FedEx one is so subtle it is really hard to notice and to be honest I didn't know it was intentionally designed that way until it was mentioned the designer said so himself. It is a monumental accomplishment to achieve it, but I guess it is almost as if it was done "too" well. The FedEx logo is instantly recongizeable for sure, and so the design is a winner, but my impression is that not many people realize the arrow and as such the effect is "missed".

By the way, I don't regard the old Brewers logo as being in the same category because it is not really a "negative space" strategy so much as it is a "multiple purposes for positive space" strategy. The glove can be a glove or two letters - very innovative, but it is a use of positive space. Only the ball could really be considered negative space because it is the negative part of the "b".

LT

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what do you mean arrow in FEDEX? I don't see it.?.?.?.?

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what do you mean arrow in FEDEX? I don't see it.?.?.?.?

Look at the EX part. The bottom half of the E and the left side of the X. The space in between them forms an arrow.

Edit: JPslapshot22 beat me to it.

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