Winnipeg and the new NHL

[Phil]

In the "It's Over" thread, jkrdevil posted the following:

Yes, The Maple Leafs are back. Hopefully know with the cap Winnipeg and Quebec City or Hamilton can get back in the NHL (and when i say Hamilton i mean Hamilton Tigers old club.) and get Canada back up to 8 maybe if possible 10 teams! At least Winnipeg. Go Leafs Go!

     

From a chat with Scott Burnside

Michael (Winnipeg): What are the chances now of a team moving back here now that it's affordable?

Scott Burnside: (3:05 PM ET ) Zero. Only because part of the point of the lockout is that Gary Bettman insists the 30-team NHL can be a success. Teams will get a chance to succeed. But is it possible Nashville will decide they aren't a hockey town? Yes. Then a place like Winnipeg could be an option. But that's not why the CBA got done the way it did, so Winnipeg can get a team. It was done so teams can stay where they are.

However, in today's Winnipeg Free Press...

NHL in city becomes a 'when,' not an 'if'

Thu Jul 14 2005

RANDY TURNER

IT'S only a matter of time. Over the next months and years -- it now seems almost inevitable -- an opportunity will arrive for Winnipeg to return to the National Hockey League.

Maybe some U.S. owner in a stinky market like Nashville is going to wake up one morning and conclude, "What was I thinking!!?" Maybe the league itself will come to the realization that, "Hey, maybe we might be better off -- and we're just spitballing here -- by putting our teams in markets where they recognize hockey as a sport."

So we can't tell you exactly how it's going to happen. But based on the curb-stomping the NHLPA took in the tentative new CBA unveiled yesterday, the prospect of the NHL returning to Winnipeg took a giant step forward.

Forget about the cap of $39 million, that's irrelevant to Winnipeg. The only number worth concentrating on in this market is $21.5 million, the CBA's reported floor. And, remember, both those numbers are based on projected revenues of $1.8 billion, only $200 million less than the $2 billion generated before these MENSA candidates decided they'd be better off not playing games for an entire year. So don't be shocked if any cap numbers proposed today will undergo significant shrinkage by this time next summer -- which is exactly why a portion of players' salaries will be held in escrow (ie. owners' bank accounts) next season.

Bottom line: the agreement probably couldn't be more small-market-friendly if it had been negotiated by Manitoba Moose boss Mark Chipman himself. Sure, teams can no longer have rock-bottom $17-million payrolls, like the Pittsburgh Penguins, but at least the days of two-tiered hockey are over.

That means a Winnipeg franchise with, say, a $25-million cap won't be obliterated in the open market by one with a bloated $80-million payroll. The agreement also includes revenue-sharing where the top 10 money-making clubs donate to a fund shared by the bottom 10 teams. But since these are NHL owners we're talking about here, let's just assume there won't be much money changing hands.

No, the players are paying for this baby, thanks to a stubborn union leader, surrounded by enough believers, who led the whole bunch off the cliff. Although, maybe it didn't matter what the NHLPA did, because throughout the negotiations every time the players bent over the owners' response was, "Not far enough yet."

Whatever. That's not our problem, right?

In this town, it's details, schmetails: Are we getting a team or not?

According to Chipman, the first order of business is to see the new CBA in action, a reasonable deduction.

"We need to see how this deal works," Chipman said yesterday. " It gives us the luxury of time. We have a good product (the Moose) right now that we're very proud of. We can at the same time see how this new world order unfolds in the next year or so. Then we can assess whether or not it's something we can pursue. Is it going to work for 30 (existing) markets? I don't know. It would need to work in less than 30 markets for us to even get our hands on the ball."

Now the tinderbox question in Winnipeg: Is there now reason to hope?

"Wow, I can just imagine my e-mail and voice mail for the next 48 hours for having to answer that question, but... why not?" Chipman replied. "I mean, we got this place (the $133-million MTS Centre) built. Hockey's obviously a very important part of our culture. If it could work somehow, I think there's reason... you should always dream."

That's how Chipman has always referred to the possible return of the NHL; a nice dream. Well, it's not going to be a dream anymore, at least financially.

To that extent, in fact, this won't boil down to, "Will a team become available at some point?" It won't be a matter of, "Are there enough corporate dollars in town to buy into the team?"

No, it's going to ultimately come down to this: Are there enough Manitobans willing to cough up at least $2,000 a year -- every year -- for season tickets that will average between $50 and $70, more than double the average cost of a Jets ticket back in 1996, when the franchise lost an astonishing $25 million with a payroll of just $17 million. And then there's the up-front cost, as the Anaheim Mighty Ducks, for example, were recently sold for about $100 million Cdn.

Still, times have changed. In 1994, when the last CBA was signed, it was common consensus that the Jets' days were numbered. When the impact of the new agreement finally takes hold, it will equally be the consensus that the NHL will probably be back.

But, ultimately, this isn't going to be about what U.S. owner might be selling and what local ownership group could afford the tab. It's going to depend on you, Winnipeg hockey fan, and how much you're prepared to cough up.

Might as well decide now. Because it's only a matter of time. Bank on it.

randy.turner@freepress.mb.ca

Thoughts?

[Phil]

Exhibit 2:

'Reason to dream' of NHL: Chipman

Thu Jul 14 2005

By Tim Campbell

IF the NHL is now back open for business, so might Winnipeg be.

That was the message from True North Sports and Entertainment chairman Mark Chipman, who's also the governor of the AHL's Manitoba Moose, when he met with reporters yesterday to discuss ramifications of the announcement the NHL and the NHLPA have finally agreed to terms but not yet ratified a new collective bargaining agreement.

That CBA will include a hard salary cap, a salary floor and some revenue sharing, according to reports.

"We've said in the past we're certainly not going to be an impediment to the NHL coming back to Winnipeg," Chipman said yesterday in the Moose locker-room at MTS Centre. "We would facilitate it in whatever way was most useful.

"We would welcome those discussions but they have not materialized yet."

Chipman said the new NHL deal needs to be understood and observed in action before he could make a definitive statement about a team returning to Winnipeg. After losing about $25 million in their final season of existence, the Jets quit the city in 1996 and went to Phoenix.

"This gives us the luxury of time," Chipman said. "We have a good product here now that has been well-accepted and we know that. We can at the same time see how this new world order unfolds in the next year or so and then we can judge whether or not it's something to pursue."

Asked if he wanted the area's hockey fans to hope, Chipman paused and then seemed to dive in with both feet.

"Why not?" he said. "We got this place built. We're all very proud of that. Hockey's obviously a very, very important part of our culture and if it could work somehow, I think there's reason to... you should always dream."

Chipman added the NHL is not going to expand so Winnipeg's only hope for the league's return was the sale or relocation of an existing franchise.

To those who might be pondering such a transaction, what would Chipman want them to know?

"It's what I want them to know about our market, and that's that we have a great building and a very passionate fan base," he replied. "And frankly, the hockey business is a small world. That's pretty much well known. The success of our team and the building last year, whoever I bump into the hockey business, is well-known. It's not like it's a secret."

Of course, no NHL discussion about Winnipeg would be valid without debating a potential ticket price and what the market could realize in terms of revenue.

To that end, Chipman said the Moose and True North have a model for operating their AHL franchise that isn't so far from that of an NHL team, that crunching future numbers might not be that difficult. But there is no definitive research or a market study to show what NHL ticket price could work here and he suggested fans look at the Edmonton Oilers if they wanted to speculate what it might cost.

"The basic math we've done produces something not less than $50, not more than $70, not unlike what Edmonton has," he said. "That means the bulk of the tickets would be in that range."

tim.campbell@freepress.mb.ca

[DEAD!]

Is it possible that the NHL will come back to Winnipeg? Sure, but we need to see what happens with all the other teams in the short term (1-2 years) I think the question is still 'IF'.

IF the league comes back strong in five years, with all teams at least breaking even, or maybe one or two teams with small losses, then I don't see the NHL coming back to Winnipeg any time soon. We just don't know yet.

[BBTV]

I'm no expert by any means, but it seems that the players took a huge beating in this new CBA, and assuming that the league can stay afloat and maybe even improve over the next couple seasons, the players will get more during the next CBA, and then more after that, etc. etc. These things tend to go in cycles, and while this agreement may make it feasible for Winnipeg to return, would they want to put a team in a market that while feasible now could become just as unfeasible in a couple of years?

I guess that could also be said about some of the existing teams, but at least there is already an existing investment there. I can't see them making a new risky investment with so many other risks already existing.

[Gary]

i'd like to see Winnipeg get a new hockey team. Have the Moose become the affiliate, and both can play in the new arena. But doesn't the Coyotes own the name "Jets", and the history?

[Ez Street]

*cough*Kansas City*cough*

[pollux]

I want to believe what has been said in this article, because hockey is primarily a canadian game. I hope Winnipeg gets a team back, because there was so much fan support there.

But this would probably mean that the Manitoba Moose would either move or fold...

The new salary cap will help all canadian teams, that's for sure. But it would help all other franchises, only if fans come back to the game. I have doubts that fans will rush back in masses, especially where they didn't even care when the franchises were created.

I also hope that they would shut down some franchises, to have a better league.

EZ, KC will eventually get his team, no doubt about that either. Otherwise, a completely new arena would represent a big investment if they didn't have something planned...

Was hockey that popular with the Scouts? I too young to remember the WHA, so I can't guess what fan base there would be...

[Ez Street]

Well the Scouts were 30 years ago. So times change. Sports are different now.

The fan base will be there.

I want Winnipeg to get a team also....by the way.

[Ez Street]

From todays Kansas City Star -

Lockout ending

Good news, NHL fans

KC may be closer to getting a team

By JIM PEDLEY The Kansas City Star

Word that the NHL and the players? association have reached an agreement in principle and that play will resume this October is not only good news for hockey fans in the 30 cities that currently have teams.

It could also be good news for hockey fans in Kansas City.

It could mean that Kansas City has come one step closer to becoming an NHL city.

Paul McGannon, who heads NHL21, the local group trying to attract a franchise to play in the now-under-construction Sprint Center, said the end of the labor dispute represents ?the first domino? in the quest to bring big-league hockey to town.

Mark Faber, the senior vice president of business operations at the Sprint Center, would not dispute that.

?I think it could be perceived as a positive,? Faber said. ?This will give the NHL and the owners the ability to focus on other aspects of the business now that the (collective bargaining agreement) has been tentatively approved.?

Hopes are high that other aspects of NHL business include getting a team up and playing in downtown Kansas City.

On Wednesday, the NHL and the players? association released a joint statement on the new collective bargaining agreement, which, if ratified by players and the league, will end the lockout that forced the cancellation of the 2004-05 season.

The statement read, ?It is anticipated that the ratification process will be completed next week, at which time the parties will be prepared to discuss the details of the agreement and plans for next season.?

Some of the agreement?s details have, however, already found their way into the media.

It is expected that the agreement includes the institution of a salary cap, something the players? association vigorously fought against. The cap will reportedly have an initial ceiling that approaches $40 million and a floor of about $22 million.

Also as a part of the agreement, there will reportedly be a rollback of player salaries of 24 percent.

In addition, the deal dictates that player salaries will not exceed 54 percent of leaguewide revenues.

Mark Sauer, president and CEO of the St. Louis Blues, said he would have no comment on the deal until after it became official.

He did say, however, he was pleased that a deal was in place.

McGannon was more than pleased.

He said much of the delight for Kansas City fans should be in the details of the agreement.

He said the terms of the settlement would produce the kind of economic atmosphere within which an NHL franchise could flourish in Kansas City.

?The most important thing for the NHL day-to-day is to have the doggone thing be affordable,? McGannon said.

The new agreement, when ratified, probably will bring ticket prices down.

?Ticket prices will be as affordable as in any other sport,? McGannon said.

Faber said, ?Games will be more affordable.?

And that would be important in gaining local support for a team in Kansas City, McGannon said.

?The thing would always break down when you started to talk about the business model,? he said. ?It was hard to get people engaged. But now, with this new business model going forward, to me, it?s the linchpin of getting a team here.?

Kansas City has two hopes for landing a team ? the movement of an existing franchise or by way of league expansion.

The former scenario appears to be the most likely, Faber said.

And, he said, the new agreement could be viewed as a potential boost to that scenario.

?This,? he said of the agreement, ?will give (the owners) an ability to focus on their business models in each market and evaluate the economics of the teams in their markets and see how the CBA will impact their future in their various cities. As a result, depending on how the economics and the models develop going forward, then, various ownership groups may look at other locations and certainly, Kansas City is one of those options.?

The lockout began prior to the start of the 2004-05 season, and talks continued past the starting date for the season.

With little progress being made, league commissioner Gary Bettman announced in February that the season would be canceled. That marked the first time that a professional sports league in North America had its entire season canceled because of a labor dispute.

Talks resumed in mid-March.

On Tuesday morning, the two sides sat down for 24 straight hours and the agreement was finalized.

The agreement also reportedly includes some rule changes designed to make the game more exciting.

The Associated Press contributed to this report.

Sorry to hijack your thread.

[youcan'tseeme]

I was watching a CBC news program yesterday and they were in Phoenix last night, interviewing people about the coyotes. no a single person said they'ed go and watch and one even said he'ed save his money for the Cardinals and Diamondbacks. The next city to get an NHL franchise via Expansion/relocation is Kansas City, In 2007 there will be NHL in Kansas city one way or another. I don't agree but they got the Sprint Center being completed that year and someone will be there. Of NHL franchises Phoenix and Nashville are likely if any to relocate to Winnipeg.

[Gary]

I was watching a CBC news program yesterday and they were in Phoenix last night, interviewing people about the coyotes. no a single person said they'ed go and watch and one even said he'ed save his money for the Cardinals and Diamondbacks. The next city to get an NHL franchise via Expansion/relocation is Kansas City, In 2007 there will be NHL in Kansas city one way or another. I don't agree but they got the Sprint Center being completed that year and someone will be there. Of NHL franchises Phoenix and Nashville are likely if any to relocate to Winnipeg.

you know what it depends on who they talked to! Phoenix isn't going anywhere so don't start the Phoenix back to Winnipeg crap. Seriously they are upset that they took a year off so they could argue about money. Damn right i'd be upset too. They must of been talking to the average fan. Because Phoenix has there hardcore fans here. Ones who have moved from Canada and East Coast as well as the ones who grew up here as well. Trust me I work for a Sports Radio Station here, and about 90% of the people who called up to talk about the end of the lockout were excited about the lockout but would boycott the first few games because they were also upset. With Wayne Gretzky possibly taking over for the Coyotes as the new Head Coach that will get more seats in. So CBC was talking to the casual fans, or what Phoenix call "fairweathered fans", because there are alot of people here that are Fair Weather Fans. Give it about half the season and when the 'Yotes start to win, you will see people flocking to the Glendale Arena.

[Phil]

My thoughts are as follows;

Revenue

Although I don't know much about the revenue sharing system, other than the top 10 teams for revenue pay the bottom 10 or 15 revenue-getting teams a certain amount, and that the top revenue teams got off fairly easy in this regard.

However, this will provide some reason for rich owners to desire financial success for the poorer teams.

For the first several years, the NHL will get next-to-nothing for the TV rights. As a result, gate revenue will play the most significant role in earning revenue.

If the fans don't come back for a significant period of time or in significant numbers in any one of 8 or so 'southern' markets, there may be interest by that owner to move to a city where a new, sold out arena every night is virtually a lock. Other owners wouldn't be so opposed, because of the new incentive for the richer teams to desire financial stability for the not-so-rich.

TV Deal

Back in 94-95, the NHL was looking to establish a presence in major American markets in the hopes of securing a windfall television contract, and the fact that it never materialized will live on as one of Gary Bettman's greatest failures (for which he has only begun to atone).

I think the NHL overestimates the importance of the presence of franchises in certain major markets. Factors such as the entertainment factor of the product and 'appointment television' can play a larger role.

Consider the NFL: despite not having a presence in what I understand to be the second-largest American market, the league's presence couldn't be stronger on television, thanks to providing the best players on the game's most prestigious fields all day every Sunday and as well on Monday nights.

The NHL seems to have caught on that its product has lost some of its entertainment value, and is taking steps to remedy the situation (although I speculate that the distribution of talent due to the salary floor and ceiling will be as effective at providing a consistent, entertaining product as any rule change).

The NHL has solid 'appointment TV' viewership in Canada with HNiC, but has failed to establish a similar franchise in the U.S. I feel that should be a higher priority than attempting to make the game work in apathetic markets. Ideally the league would work in all their major markets; however, I believe, and the NFL seems to support my belief, that this is no pre-requisite to a successful television presence.

What could transpire?

I believe the NHL could survive without a second team in Florida. The Lightning will hopefully be able to build off their recent Stanley Cup Championship, and with that same young core of players, could compete for many years into the future. Winning will be the key to their survival, especially to attract attention over the winter months.

Ideally the league would be able to establish solid footings for both the Lightning and Panthers and grow the game in these non-traditional markets, but research has no conclusively proven or disproven the success of this attempt, although my speculation is that this coming winter, Shaq, Dwyane, and the Heat will generate more of a buzz than Luongo, Bouwmeester, and the Panthers.

I don't know the specific situation in Florida, but I do know that Winnipeggers remember very well the excitement Roberto Luongo brought this city six years ago at the WJHC. Stores would not possibly be able to stock enough Jets' "Luongo" jerseys if this speculative scenario were to unfold.

By putting the Panthers in Winnipeg, the NHL would quickly be able to take a franchise that is rebuilding, but not exactly expected to top the NHL attendance charts or sports headlines in Miami for a few years yet, and turn it into an instant sensation that would be able to survive several years of losing before winning would at all affect the team's revenue stream.

Comment on any or all of my thoughts... I'm not too naive to believe this is in fact a matter of "when" as opposed to "if", but I do love to speculate, and am interested in broadening my knowledge of other's opinions on the matter.

[Dilbert]

I would like to see Winnipeg, Houston maybe jump from the AHL to NHL and maybe add Seattle and Quebec City

[youcan'tseeme]

I was watching a CBC news program yesterday and they were in Phoenix last night, interviewing people about the coyotes. no a single person said they'ed go and watch and one even said he'ed save his money for the Cardinals and Diamondbacks. The next city to get an NHL franchise via Expansion/relocation is Kansas City, In 2007 there will be NHL in Kansas city one way or another. I don't agree but they got the Sprint Center being completed that year and someone will be there. Of NHL franchises Phoenix and Nashville are likely if any to relocate to Winnipeg.

you know what it depends on who they talked to! Phoenix isn't going anywhere so don't start the Phoenix back to Winnipeg crap. Seriously they are upset that they took a year off so they could argue about money. Damn right i'd be upset too. They must of been talking to the average fan. Because Phoenix has there hardcore fans here. Ones who have moved from Canada and East Coast as well as the ones who grew up here as well. Trust me I work for a Sports Radio Station here, and about 90% of the people who called up to talk about the end of the lockout were excited about the lockout but would boycott the first few games because they were also upset. With Wayne Gretzky possibly taking over for the Coyotes as the new Head Coach that will get more seats in. So CBC was talking to the casual fans, or what Phoenix call fairweathered fans, because there are alot of people here that are Fair Weather Fans. Give it about half the season and when the 'Yotes start to win, you will see people flocking to the Glendale Arena.

Not trying to start something but ever single NHL city has it's hardcore fans, And of course 90% of the people who called in were excited or why would they call in. that's like saying 90% percent of people who eat at McDonalds like it of course they do or they wouldn't eat there! Also any true fan wouldn't boycott(even for a few days) the NHL they'd be happy for it to be back, this lockout happened for the purpose of keeping the Coyotes in Phoenix. Phoenix back to Winnipeg is actually a possibility unlikely but it is possibly. You are a hardcore hockey fan i said something about your team that you didn't like and you stood up for them and I respect that! But the 90% percent of people who call in is a very unvalid point there only gonna call in about the lockout if they watch and are a hockey fans.

P.S., I don't want Phoenix to move back i want another team imagine the rivalry between Phoenix and Winnipeg!

[HatCityEnforcer]

My thoughts are as follows;

Revenue

Although I don't know much about the revenue sharing system, other than the top 10 teams for revenue pay the bottom 10 or 15 revenue-getting teams a certain amount, and that the top revenue teams got off fairly easy in this regard.

However, this will provide some reason for rich owners to desire financial success for the poorer teams.

For the first several years, the NHL will get next-to-nothing for the TV rights. As a result, gate revenue will play the most significant role in earning revenue.

If the fans don't come back for a significant period of time or in significant numbers in any one of 8 or so 'southern' markets, there may be interest by that owner to move to a city where a new, sold out arena every night is virtually a lock. Other owners wouldn't be so opposed, because of the new incentive for the richer teams to desire financial stability for the not-so-rich.

TV Deal

Back in 94-95, the NHL was looking to establish a presence in major American markets in the hopes of securing a windfall television contract, and the fact that it never materialized will live on as one of Gary Bettman's greatest failures (for which he has only begun to atone).

I think the NHL overestimates the importance of the presence of franchises in certain major markets. Factors such as the entertainment factor of the product and 'appointment television' can play a larger role.

Consider the NFL: despite not having a presence in what I understand to be the second-largest American market, the league's presence couldn't be stronger on television, thanks to providing the best players on the game's most prestigious fields all day every Sunday and as well on Monday nights.

The NHL seems to have caught on that its product has lost some of its entertainment value, and is taking steps to remedy the situation (although I speculate that the distribution of talent due to the salary floor and ceiling will be as effective at providing a consistent, entertaining product as any rule change).

The NHL has solid 'appointment TV' viewership in Canada with HNiC, but has failed to establish a similar franchise in the U.S. I feel that should be a higher priority than attempting to make the game work in apathetic markets. Ideally the league would work in all their major markets; however, I believe, and the NFL seems to support my belief, that this is no pre-requisite to a successful television presence.

What could transpire?

I believe the NHL could survive without a second team in Florida. The Lightning will hopefully be able to build off their recent Stanley Cup Championship, and with that same young core of players, could compete for many years into the future. Winning will be the key to their survival, especially to attract attention over the winter months.

Ideally the league would be able to establish solid footings for both the Lightning and Panthers and grow the game in these non-traditional markets, but research has no conclusively proven or disproven the success of this attempt, although my speculation is that this coming winter, Shaq, Dwyane, and the Heat will generate more of a buzz than Luongo, Bouwmeester, and the Panthers.

I don't know the specific situation in Florida, but I do know that Winnipeggers remember very well the excitement Roberto Luongo brought this city six years ago at the WJHC. Stores would not possibly be able to stock enough Jets' "Luongo" jerseys if this speculative scenario were to unfold.

By putting the Panthers in Winnipeg, the NHL would quickly be able to take a franchise that is rebuilding, but not exactly expected to top the NHL attendance charts or sports headlines in Miami for a few years yet, and turn it into an instant sensation that would be able to survive several years of losing before winning would at all affect the team's revenue stream.

Comment on any or all of my thoughts... I'm not too naive to believe this is in fact a matter of "when" as opposed to "if", but I do love to speculate, and am interested in broadening my knowledge of other's opinions on the matter.

Very well thought out points there, sy...and I have to say I agree with it...

It's especially hard for me to believe that (for the sake of arguement, here)Raleigh's a much better market for hockey than Winnipeg, Quebec City, or Hartford were in the past...As much as I'm for expanding the game across the NA continent, there's just some places where it's not gonna work, no matter how much you try to force the issue.

Out of the "Forsaken 3" (The 'Peg, Quebec, and Hartford), I'd have to think that Winnipeg's got the best shot of getting back into the NHL (esp. since the MTS Centre opened up...looks like an amazing place and would work well for an NHL team)....

[GMac]

I want Winnipeg to get a team also....by the way.

and he wants a footlong hoggie, fries, and a large drink... oh and an apple pie...

Bring back the Jets... i havent heard Van Halen's Jump in forever...lol... man thats sad that everytime i hear that song all I can think of is the Jets

[Gary]

I was watching a CBC news program yesterday and they were in Phoenix last night, interviewing people about the coyotes. no a single person said they'ed go and watch and one even said he'ed save his money for the Cardinals and Diamondbacks. The next city to get an NHL franchise via Expansion/relocation is Kansas City, In 2007 there will be NHL in Kansas city one way or another. I don't agree but they got the Sprint Center being completed that year and someone will be there. Of NHL franchises Phoenix and Nashville are likely if any to relocate to Winnipeg.

you know what it depends on who they talked to! Phoenix isn't going anywhere so don't start the Phoenix back to Winnipeg crap. Seriously they are upset that they took a year off so they could argue about money. Damn right i'd be upset too. They must of been talking to the average fan. Because Phoenix has there hardcore fans here. Ones who have moved from Canada and East Coast as well as the ones who grew up here as well. Trust me I work for a Sports Radio Station here, and about 90% of the people who called up to talk about the end of the lockout were excited about the lockout but would boycott the first few games because they were also upset. With Wayne Gretzky possibly taking over for the Coyotes as the new Head Coach that will get more seats in. So CBC was talking to the casual fans, or what Phoenix call fairweathered fans, because there are alot of people here that are Fair Weather Fans. Give it about half the season and when the 'Yotes start to win, you will see people flocking to the Glendale Arena.

Not trying to start something but ever single NHL city has it's hardcore fans, And of course 90% of the people who called in were excited or why would they call in. that's like saying 90% percent of people who eat at McDonalds like it of course they do or they wouldn't eat there! Also any true fan wouldn't boycott(even for a few days) the NHL they'd be happy for it to be back, this lockout happened for the purpose of keeping the Coyotes in Phoenix. Phoenix back to Winnipeg is actually a possibility unlikely but it is possibly. You are a hardcore hockey fan i said something about your team that you didn't like and you stood up for them and I respect that! But the 90% percent of people who call in is a very unvalid point there only gonna call in about the lockout if they watch and are a hockey fans.

P.S., I don't want Phoenix to move back i want another team imagine the rivalry between Phoenix and Winnipeg!

I guess we'll agree to disagree, the Coyotes will be here for a long time, just consider us the next LA Kings

[Big_Mac]

i live two hours away from winnipeg and i want them back!

phoneiz wont go anywhere, they just built a new rink and have a mutli-year lease i believe that goes into the next decade or so

[Gary]

i live two hours away from winnipeg and i want them back!

phoneiz wont go anywhere, they just built a new rink and have a mutli-year lease i believe that goes into the next decade or so

it's a 30 year lease, that won't end until 2033 if i'm not mistaken, also they are building the Westgate City Center and they have the Glendale Arena as the centerpiece. So the Yotes will be here for the long run.

[KCScout76]

*cough*Kansas City*cough*

I wish it were true - I'll believe it when I see it. We can't even support a UHL team, let alone an NHL team. I know we have good people and the promotion group is well organized. Kansas City & the midwest would be a viable market.

Think of the Rivalries; St. Louis (duh ), Dallas, Minnesota, Colorado & Chicago.

However, reality hits me in the face - the NHL isn't going to put a team in a city (unless the Nashville owners see that KC is a viable choice) that struggles to support it's other teams - loyal as they are, we ain't generating the big $ at the gate (The Chiefs being the exception; that's due to great ownership and the long ties to our communities).

If I were a betting man, I'd put my money on a Canadian city - possibly Winnipeg.

Sorry I don't have any proof, just a strong gut feeling. Of course, the way Gary Bettman has been going, he'll put a team in Kansas City instead of Canada. Seems he's been sucking the life out of Great White North friends. But Gary's not the whole problem.

Good luck my Winnipeg friends - I hope the hockey dream comes true (though I would root for KC to get a team )