Penguins to KC

[Shmee]

sorry not happening, new arena, perfect locale and rising attendance and the fact that they have fan base that is getting bigger and bigger.  The Yotes are going nowhere.

Really? Cause according to ESPN.com, the Coyotes are actually drawing fewer fans per game this year than they did in the season before the lockout. And that's with the greatest hockey figure ever standing behind the bench at every game.

Their 15,112 fans per game are good for only 20th in the league and 86.4 per cent of total capacity.

And how does moving to an arena outside of the cultural and commercial center of Phoenix to a glorified suburb make for a perfect locale?

I know you cream your pants twice every time somebody mentions Glendale and all, but I'm not buying the Coyotes as a team beloved by more than a small portion of the population of a very large city. A city that is, of course, very used to ignoring underperforming teams. See: Arizona Diamondbacks, who this year played to just over 51 per cent of capacity, and Arizona Cardinals, who this year are playing to just over 42,000 fans a game at 57.3 per cent of capacity, both good for last in the league.

If Phoenix can't support underachieving teams in traditional American sports like baseball and football, why should we believe that you guys will support an underachieving team in a sport that most desert natives will never play themselves?

[WSU151]

And that's with the greatest hockey figure ever standing behind the bench at every game.

I'd venture to say that more people would rather watch Gretzky PLAY hockey than COACH hockey. That's just me. So I really don't get that argument.

And how does moving to an arena outside of the cultural and commercial center of Phoenix to a glorified suburb make for a perfect locale?

What would you know about perfect locations in Phoenix? Why would the suburbs be such a terrible location?

[Shmee]

And that's with the greatest hockey figure ever standing behind the bench at every game.

I'd venture to say that more people would rather watch Gretzky PLAY hockey than COACH hockey. That's just me. So I really don't get that argument.

And how does moving to an arena outside of the cultural and commercial center of Phoenix to a glorified suburb make for a perfect locale?

What would you know about perfect locations in Phoenix? Why would the suburbs be such a terrible location?

Coaches are figureheads. A team should be able to market Gretzky's presence.

And you're jumping the gun a bit. I didn't say the suburbs are a terrible location, I just questioned what makes Glendale perfect. As far as knowing anything about Phoenix, my sister went to Arizona State for four years. We visited enough that I got to see the city a few times. Forgive me for not giving you my life story the first time around.

[Gary]

And that's with the greatest hockey figure ever standing behind the bench at every game.

I'd venture to say that more people would rather watch Gretzky PLAY hockey than COACH hockey. That's just me. So I really don't get that argument.

And how does moving to an arena outside of the cultural and commercial center of Phoenix to a glorified suburb make for a perfect locale?

What would you know about perfect locations in Phoenix? Why would the suburbs be such a terrible location?

Coaches are figureheads. A team should be able to market Gretzky's presence.

And you're jumping the gun a bit. I didn't say the suburbs are a terrible location, I just questioned what makes Glendale perfect. As far as knowing anything about Phoenix, my sister went to Arizona State for four years. We visited enough that I got to see the city a few times. Forgive me for not giving you my life story the first time around.

what makes Glendale so perfect is plenty of land to donate. Westgate AZ will open in about a year and so will the new Cardinals Stadium. So when you have the $$$ and the land people will go there

[appleclock]

Oklahoma City will be on the list too if the Hornets thing falls through. They've wanted an NHL team for years and tried to get the Oilers in the 90s although not as seriously as Houston tried.

[winters in buffalo]

The reason Pittsburgh will lose the team is because the local economy is in the toilet, and the government has bigger concerns than keeping the team.

Hell, they can't hold on to US Air, which employs far more people and pumps far more money into the local economy thant the Penguins do. Face it, the Pens aren't a priority there.

As far as where they'll end up... Kansas City wants them the most, and Houston is in the best position (in terms of population and finances) to support a team. My outside bet would be Vegas. . The Pens might as well be the first. Vegas is today what Charlotte and Phoenix were 15 years ago, and sooner or later something's going to end up there.

Other MSAs that are as big or larger than Pittsburgh, include: San Diego, Baltimore, Seattle and Cleveland, but none really jumps out as a possibility.

[EagleFan344]

Hopefully they end up in Canada.

[winters in buffalo]

Hopefully they end up in Canada.

Highly unlikely. Canada's 6 largest metro areas already have teams. The next 3 biggest - Quebec, Hamilton and Winnipeg - are each roughly 70% of the size of the league's smallest market.

[CC97]

Hopefully they end up in Canada.

Highly unlikely. Canada's 6 largest metro areas already have teams. The next 3 biggest - Quebec, Hamilton and Winnipeg - are each roughly 70% of the size of the league's smallest market.

smaller markets, but the arena will be near capacity every night

[Ez Street]

Kansas City already has the suites for the Sprint Center sold out. That will go a LONG way in getting a team. That is where the real money is made.

[jkrdevil]

Hopefully they end up in Canada.

Highly unlikely. Canada's 6 largest metro areas already have teams. The next 3 biggest - Quebec, Hamilton and Winnipeg - are each roughly 70% of the size of the league's smallest market.

smaller markets, but the arena will be near capacity every night

Yes, but you have to also look at coporate support which is another key thing. Again Winnipeg or any other Canadian city without a team can't match the available US markets. The you have to look at the economic impact for the league as a whole if a US based team moves to Canada. That's lower US TV money because you are losing a US TV market. Also, it would result in less US sponsorships. Thats' why the league does not want an US based team moving to Canada. Thus the Pens aren't moving to Canada.

[Phil]

Hopefully they end up in Canada.

Highly unlikely. Canada's 6 largest metro areas already have teams. The next 3 biggest - Quebec, Hamilton and Winnipeg - are each roughly 70% of the size of the league's smallest market.

smaller markets, but the arena will be near capacity every night

Yes, but you have to also look at coporate support which is another key thing. Again Winnipeg or any other Canadian city without a team can't match the available US markets. The you have to look at the economic impact for the league as a whole if a US based team moves to Canada. That's lower US TV money because you are losing a US TV market. Also, it would result in less US sponsorships. Thats' why the league does not want an US based team moving to Canada. Thus the Pens aren't moving to Canada.

Yes, but corporate support is proportionally related to the level of prestige associated with the team.

In a major US market, you're not going to get the highest level companies competing for the rights to plaster their name on a team nobody cares all that much about. In Canada, you'd have all of the biggest companies vying to get their name associated with the team because it's the biggest show in town.

Furthermore, the NHL isn't all that concerned with TV revenues. They've signed their deal with the OLN, and 1 less team in an American market isn't going to make or break the deal when it comes to moving up in the network world... a better game will.

If the Penguins do go on the market, there will be a strong civic push for a Winnipeg buyer to step up, and the Penguins will hear from Winnipeg... whether that translates into the team coming here is by no means a sure thing, but don't count us out yet.

[Lee.]

It's important to note that the team isn't necessarily going up for sale- it's looking to move.

And yes, it would be nice if it wound up in Canada, i.e. Winnipeg, but let's face it- If the Pens are in a position to lose $7M for selling out every game and going into the second round of the playoffs, with 17k seats, what makes anyone think that moving to Winnipeg, with 2,000 less seats INCLUDING LUXURY BOXES and operating in Canadian funds, will be able to make the team profitable?\

I hate to break it to the Canadian fans who want to see Winnipeg back in the league, but as far as size goes, the MTSC is just perfect.....to bring in top-line concerts. This is what ownership wants. Easier to sell out a concert for an act who's coming through once every three or four years at $100 a ticket, than 41 dates for a mediocre hockey team for $70 a ticket.

Sorry to prick everyone's balloon about Winnipeg and the NHL. Again.

[WSU151]

Coaches are figureheads. A team should be able to market Gretzky's presence.

They have marketed Gretzky's presence...but that's not why people go see Coyotes games.

I've never known people going to games because of the coach in pro sports. People don't go to watch Phil Jackson. They don't go to see Bill Belichick. And they certainly don't go to see Joe Torre. Again, that's just my view. I'd rather go see great players play than a good coach standing behind a bench.

[jrh31584]

Those who decided that the first nationally televised game of the college football season, complete with Gameday crew and pre-game concert, would be between a 6-5 team and an 0-11 team would beg to differ with your assessment.

[Mac the Knife]

Much as I hate the thought of them going as a former resident of the area, Lemeiux is right: it might be time for them to move on.

I remember Pens ownership (Baldwin I believe, but it may go further back than that) wanting a new arena back in 1987, and the city telling them, "you're next" only to turn around and approve revamping a convention center, or to build the Pirates a new stadium, or the Steelers, or tackle some other civic project.

Simply put, the Penguins have gotten a cornholing from the city in comparison to other professional sports teams in the town. They can compete in every respect other than arena-generated revenue, and that's something that cannot be fixed at the Civic Arena.

[Sodboy13]

Okay, I hereby put up $100 for a new arena in Hartford.

Who's with me on this one? Eh? Ehhhh?

[NickNickNick]

Honestly, I believe Kansas City probably has the best shot, over Houston, simply because of the way their new arena is already set up with sales.

Winnipeg will get its chance again too...If the NHL does what everyone says it will and move into a 20-team playoff format, there will be 32 teams in the NHL by 2015, and Winnipeg may be a viable option by then.

Houston will definitely get an expansion team in the future, should they lose the battle to KC.

Portland and Seattle are sticky because of Vancouver.

[Mac the Knife]

Honestly, I believe Kansas City probably has the best shot, over Houston, simply because of the way their new arena is already set up with sales.

Winnipeg will get its chance again too...If the NHL does what everyone says it will and move into a 20-team playoff format, there will be 32 teams in the NHL by 2015, and Winnipeg may be a viable option by then.

Houston will definitely get an expansion team in the future, should they lose the battle to KC.

Portland and Seattle are sticky because of Vancouver.

20 team playoff format?

That's the first I'd heard of it, actually. Who's "everyone"?

32-team NHL? Cool. 8 divisions of 4, NFL-style, but why not expand the playoffs to 24 teams, giving the top 2 division champs in each conference a bye in the first round?

Sorry, I didn't mean to threadjack. Winnipeg has no shot at an NHL team again anytime soon. I frankly can't see any Canadian city getting the Pens. If Pittsburgh moves (and I'm still saying "if" in hopes that something actually can get done), they'll likely go to either a big city that can support another sport (Houston), or a city where there's one (or no) other pro teams to compete with during the winter months, like a Portland, Salt Lake City, Sacramento, San Diego, Seattle, Kansas City, etc.

[WSU151]

Those who decided that the first nationally televised game of the college football season, complete with Gameday crew and pre-game concert, would be between a 6-5 team and an 0-11 team would beg to differ with your assessment.

You must've missed where I said "pro sports".