The planned Mets stadium

[The_Admiral]

cookie-cutter "retro" parks

Such as?

http://www.andrewclem.com/Baseball/Stadiums_by_class.html

Look for yourself.

Man, check out the Incredible Shrinking Dodger Stadium! Some pitcher's park that is now.

[SEMOSTLfan]

When does it get to a point when these "non-clone" ballparks all just essentially become the same park? Granted it may not have the indistinct shapes and dimensions of the fields of the 70s, but all these "retro modern" parks looks the same to me. Show me a park like Griffith's Stadium that had a 400 foot foul pole and a tree hanging over the fense in right field, and I'll show you something that isn't so utterly contrived.

This stadium (much like many new parks of today) tries to hard. Ebbets Field's facade was great, but mainly because it WAS the corner of a city block. That's WHY it was shaped like that, and why it felt so cozy. It was a part of the landscape. I was never there myself, but I've heard the stories. This new park is giving a nod to it, but there's no purpose behind it, other than a simple nod. It's detached from its surrounding areas, and just looks like a generic park.

i know it bothers me too that they all look the same, but its always been like that. The norm just changes with the generations. In the 1960's and 70's it was the concrete bowl multi purpose stadiums, now its the retro ballparks.

The reason everyone wants the same looking park is beacuse its been proven to work. The norm wont change until someone else gets ballsy and tries out a radical design that works well.

[Gothamite]

The subways are what I think of when I see the exposed steel - it reminds me of the elevated tracks that wind their way through the outer boroughs.

Hope you don't actually wait until July - you're always welcome in the conversation.

The problem is, the exposed steel they are using in the design is actually nothing like the trains. Nothing.

Not the trains, but they look a lot like the elevated tracks.

You don't want to echo the train design anyway, since the redbirds are being retired. Train designs change. The exposed steel looks much like the elevated tracks themselves.

What actually would have been cool, is to incorporate the 7 train into the stadium design. The way Shea is now, you get off at that stop and have to leave the station to go into the stadium. How cool would it be to have the train run through just behyond the outfield wall.

That I'd like.

It's amazing that the community that Yankee stadium is in has been protesting a new building because it would be built on parkland. Why aren't they protesting the fact that they're neighborhood is one of the most dangerous in America.

The answer is simple - it's not.

[griffin128]

The subways are what I think of when I see the exposed steel - it reminds me of the elevated tracks that wind their way through the outer boroughs.

Hope you don't actually wait until July - you're always welcome in the conversation.

The problem is, the exposed steel they are using in the design is actually nothing like the trains. Nothing.

Not the trains, but they look a lot like the elevated tracks.

You don't want to echo the train design anyway, since the redbirds are being retired. Train designs change. The exposed steel looks much like the elevated tracks themselves.

What actually would have been cool, is to incorporate the 7 train into the stadium design. The way Shea is now, you get off at that stop and have to leave the station to go into the stadium. How cool would it be to have the train run through just behyond the outfield wall.

That I'd like.

It's amazing that the community that Yankee stadium is in has been protesting a new building because it would be built on parkland. Why aren't they protesting the fact that they're neighborhood is one of the most dangerous in America.

The answer is simple - it's not.

Really? Do you live in the Bronx? I'm not just someone who repeats what they hear on tv shows. It's a pretty bad neighborghood, I'm from Queens, been there plenty of times and the south bronx ain't the type of place you wanna have a picnic.

[Gothamite]

My best friend lives in the South Bronx. I go up there plenty - take the subway, hop a gypsy cab, I even ride my bike home from her apartment from my place in Manhattan. At night. Never once have I felt threatened.

Is it the best neighborhood in the 5 bros? Nope. But it doesn't even come close to "one of the most dangerous in America".

[griffin128]

First, you're a braver man than I am. I'm just a regular white guy from Queens and the one thing you learn living there is that you don't ride your bike alone in the South Bronx.

Second - "one of the most dangerous neighborhoods in america" may be a slight exageration but not by much. It's the South bronx, c'mon.

Third - my point is that the people of the South Bronx don't utter a word of protest when it comes to graffitti, or crime, or garbage on their streets. But if you attempt to take a park from them, then suddenly they become activists.

[jkrdevil]

First, you're a braver man than I am. I'm just a regular white guy from Queens and the one thing you learn living there is that you don't ride your bike alone in the South Bronx.

Second - "one of the most dangerous neighborhoods in america" may be a slight exageration but not by much. It's the South bronx, c'mon.

Third - my point is that the people of the South Bronx don't utter a word of protest when it comes to graffitti, or crime, or garbage on their streets. But if you attempt to take a park from them, then suddenly they become activists.

The south bronx isn't as bad as it used to be. I've gone with my father to plenty of games and most times we park on the street for free and nothing has ever happened to it.

[jws008]

As for the modern, retro ballparks; I remain a big fan, except when they replace something that should have been preserved.  I will never like Coamerica for this reason alone; the Tigers should still be playing in a renovated Tiger Stadium.

You should probably check out the concept I posted yesterday.

http://boards.sportslogos.net/index.php?showtopic=35233

Yeah, I would of liked to see them renovate the corner, but the reality is that it really wouldn't make much sense.

1) The neighborhood is a :censored:hole. There's nothing but rundown shacks that sold Tigers crap and empty dirt lots that the owners charged people to park there.

2) Yes, the stadium itself is structurally sound, but the rest of it would have to be completely gutted. The end result is something that would cost just as much or more as building a new stadium, and much of the charm would be gone. And why would you want to dump that much money into a stadium in the neighborhood that it's in?

Comerica is in a much better location. The last time I went there, we maid a day out of it. We ate in Greektown, checked out the casino, and walked to the game. With Tiger Stadium, you got there 45 minutes before the game to make sure you got a decent spot for less than 15 bucks and got the hell out of there as soon as the game ended or you knew that the Tigers were going to lose.

You're missing my point a little bit.

The Tigers should have renovated the old place before even considering building Coamerica.

Had the park been renovated, the now rundown shacks would have been improved, and the dirt lots could have been renovated into safe modern parking. One of the reasons that neighborhood looks like it does now is that the old ballpark has sat empty for year upon year now. Take the Tigers out of Coamerica and some of the surrounding area will have the same look a few years later (with no activity in the park).

Lastly, I think if you look at any cost analysis of renovating an existing park versus building new, that the cost would probably slightly favor renovation.

I will admit that the one game I've seen in Coamerica was a nice, modern experience.

It just bothers me that an old classic park was lost, mostly in the name of the almighty luxury box and dollar. I think that the Tigers could have done what the Red Sox are doing at Fenway Park now. They could have embraced the ballpark, preserved it, and improved the surrounding neighborhood.

Trust me on this, Fenway's neighborhood is much better now than it was twenty years ago. Some of that has to do with the Red Sox embracing their old ballpark.

[Gothamite]

First, you're a braver man than I am. I'm just a regular white guy from Queens and the one thing you learn living there is that you don't ride your bike alone in the South Bronx.

Maybe not in 1977. But those days are long gone. This white boy from Chelsea does it frequently.

Second - "one of the most dangerous neighborhoods in america" may be a slight exageration but not by much. It's the South bronx, c'mon.

I thought you said you weren't one of those guys who just repeated what he heard on TV. Just kidding, friend, but the South Bronx isn't nearly so bad as you've heard. Hasn't been for a decade.

It's a huge exaggeration.

Third - my point is that the people of the South Bronx don't utter a word of protest when it comes to graffitti, or crime, or garbage on their streets. But if you attempt to take a park from them, then suddenly they become activists.

What evidence do you have to support this assertion? I would suggest that regular protests don't get covered anywhere near the way that a protest against a new Yankee Stadium does.

[metmatt]

Am I the only one that thinks the interior really looks a lot like Turner Field?

Maybe. I don't see it though.

Turner Field has a two-tiered left field porch, with seats in a third deck that go partially beyond the left field wall; Shea II has 4 decks. There's no grassy hill in dead center, and the right field porch is also different. And the contour is different - the Mets have a large (and unnecessary, since there's no neighborhood being designed around) angle in center-right that Turner doesn't have. Turner's wall is generally a smooth curve with a subtle angle in right-center; Shea II has a couple prominent angles.

Yeah, the wall is definitley a different angle. However, I definitley see sort of a resembelence. The dimensions are similar too.

Turner Dimensions: 335-L, 380-LC, 400-C,

385-RC, 330-R

Shea II Dimensions: 335-L, 379-LC, 408-C, 391-RC, 330-R

[marlinfan]

PBS did a special on the late World Trade Center towers that pointed out the high winds the two towers' designs generated. I'm not an engineer, and I don't play one on TV, but I would guess based on that photo that the wind would howl in from right field, and of course the hitters would hate that. Either that, or you'd have very strange swirling wind patterns.

I believe this happens at Rogers Centre to an extent, because of the CN Tower.

Also, I read somewhere that the upper deck in rightfield at new Shea will hangover the playing field.

The stadium that was planned here in Miami certainly breaks the neoclassic mold. It looks like according to a few reports that this design will be used wherever the franchise decides to go whether it be San Antonio, Portland, Hialeah, Iraq, Israel, Anchorage, etc.

[tp49]

First, you're a braver man than I am. I'm just a regular white guy from Queens and the one thing you learn living there is that you don't ride your bike alone in the South Bronx.

Second - "one of the most dangerous neighborhoods in america" may be a slight exageration but not by much. It's the South bronx, c'mon.

Third - my point is that the people of the South Bronx don't utter a word of protest when it comes to graffitti, or crime, or garbage on their streets. But if you attempt to take a park from them, then suddenly they become activists.

Have you spent any considerable amount of time in the confines of the 44 Pct lately? It's a cesspool. Go on a non-game day and check it out even in the area around Bronx Supreme and the Municipal Building, without all the police in the area during a game no one would go there, and very few who do go to a game there venture east of the Grand Concourse. The neighborhood isn't as bad as it was int he 70's or as bad as it was during the late 80's - early to mid 90's but that area would qualify as the one of the most dangerous neighborhoods in America hands down. It consistently ranks in the top 5 precincts in the city when it comes to violent crime.

IIRC the plan is to put the park where the old Yankee Stadium would be as such there would be no loss of parkland.

The problem with Shea (other than it needs to be replaced) is that Willets Point is industrial so there isn't much to do in the immediate area after a game. I can't wait to go to a game at the "New Shea."

[Gothamite]

It looks like according to a few reports that this design will be used wherever the franchise decides to go whether it be San Antonio, Portland, Hialeah, Iraq, Israel, Anchorage, etc.

Yeesh, I hope not.

I would hope that whichever city gets the Marlins would build a stadium appropriate to the site. It might work in some places, it might not work in others.

[griffin128]

This white boy from Chelsea does it frequently.

Ok, I'm more impressed with you biking from chelsea to the south bronx, than I am with your courage in going to the south bronx in the first place.

That's not an easy ride, I've done it.

I really hope you don't mean motorcycle.

It's ok to disagree on this issue. I have tickets for thirsdays game. It's been awhile since I've actually stood in the south bronx, so after thursday we'll see if I agree with you.

[jerkstore]

The steel is actually supposed to based on the Hells Gate bridge. Its actually a Railroad bridge between Queens and the Bronx. (very similar to the bridge in Sydney harbour in Australia). Thats also the reason the lights are arched in such a way. There is a bridge theme in the model. There is literal bridge built over the bullpens if you look close at some ofthe images you can see it. There is also Bridge connecting the RF stands to the 1b stands.

As for Green Seats complaint, Polo Grounds had green seats.... (so did Yankee stadium til 1975 BTW)

[jerkstore]

Hells Gate

[Gothamite]

This white boy from Chelsea does it frequently.

Ok, I'm more impressed with you biking from chelsea to the south bronx, than I am with your courage in going to the south bronx in the first place.

That's not an easy ride, I've done it.

I really hope you don't mean motorcycle.

It's ok to disagree on this issue. I have tickets for thirsdays game. It's been awhile since I've actually stood in the south bronx, so after thursday we'll see if I agree with you.

It's actually not such a bad ride. The West Side bike path certainly helps.

No motorcycle. 10-speed. Call me old-fashioned.

Enjoy the game!

[Gothamite]

The steel is actually supposed to based on the Hells Gate bridge.  Its actually a Railroad bridge between Queens and the Bronx.  (very similar to the bridge in Sydney harbour in Australia).  Thats also the reason the lights are arched in such a way.  There is a bridge theme in the model.  There is literal bridge built over the bullpens if you look close at some ofthe images you can see it.  There is also Bridge connecting the RF stands to the 1b stands.

As for Green Seats complaint, Polo Grounds had green seats.... (so did Yankee stadium til 1975 BTW)

Good catch on the bridge.

Didn't Yankee Stadium's seats get a blue coat of paint at one time? The stadium seats I have seen come up for auction are blue:

Okay, it looks green, but is described as "blue".

Here's a restored seat from the same auction:

Lots 296 and 297, respectively, in the current Grey Flannel Auction.

FWIW, I've heard that the seats all got a coat of paint in the early 1960s. Maybe that's when they went from green to blue?

Here's an original field box seat (lot #2), in the original green color:

[jerkstore]

Yeah, you're right on that, Must have been painted some point mid-60s. Ive seen color shots from the early 60s in green, but the pics from the last season b4 renovation are definetly blue.