Milwaukee Journal Sentinel Packer Writer

[quantum]

I find it funny people complaining about the 'G' on the helmet. The name Packers doesn't exactly instill toughness or intimidation. Other than tradition, people should be calling for a name change. Name change aside, does a GB versus a G really make a difference?

I look at the Pack as being like the Browns. They may be ugly and their name is lame, but they are our team. And that's all that matters.

[leopard88]

The name Packers doesn't exactly instill toughness or intimidation.

In a vacuum, the name Packers doesn't "instill toughness or intimidation." However, now (after 80+ years of history), the name screams football and the toughness and intimidation for which teams strive. Most fans immediately think Lombardi when they hear the name. He is/was toughness and intimidation personified.

[griffelh]

If you read my first post, I am only playing devil's advocate, I don't neccessarily believe this.

Though, Kansas City has a KC on their hat, I don't see why at least one New York City team doesn't have a NYC on their hat or helmet.

'Kansas City' is the official name of that city. 'New York' is the official name of the city as well. The word City is merely used by people to differentiate it from the State. The official postal address is New York, NY, NOT New York City, NY

[BallWonk]

Because the Yankees play in New York City, or the City of New York.

SO, the NY should have a C.

Are you serious with this?

Apply that logic to every MLB team. 22 teams would then have to add a "C" to their monograms, as they play in cities. (This includes the City of Kansas City, Missouri.) 4 teams would add an "S" for "State (of)". The Nationals would get a "C" for "City of Washington"... or would it be "D" for "District"?

Point of clarification: There is no "City of Washington" in the nation's capital. The local jurisdiction, with an elected mayor and council and affiliated police force and stadium authority and sanitation service and bloated bureaucracy, along with, rumor has it, a few schools, libraries, and parks, though sightings of the latter trio of civic functions have not been confirmed since 1973, is called the "District of Columbia."

The whole "Washington" thing is basically informal, a customary place name rather than the actual name of a place or a political division. Which isn't to say it's not real; as long as most people use the name and everyone knows what they're talking about, "Washington" is as real a name for DC as "Twin Cities" is a name for Minneapolis and St. Paul. But the point is that if we were applying the silly logic that team caps should have the full names of the political divisions they represent, Nationals caps would only have to say "DC".

And the answer with Green Bay is obvious: If the Packers must have only one letter on their helmets, it should be a "B", and it should be green.

[Gothamite]

Point of clarification: There is no "City of Washington" in the nation's capital. The local jurisdiction, with an elected mayor and council and affiliated police force and stadium authority and sanitation service and bloated bureaucracy, along with, rumor has it, a few schools, libraries, and parks, though sightings of the latter trio of civic functions have not been confirmed since 1973, is called the "District of Columbia."

The whole "Washington" thing is basically informal, a customary place name rather than the actual name of a place or a political division. Which isn't to say it's not real; as long as most people use the name and everyone knows what they're talking about, "Washington" is as real a name for DC as "Twin Cities" is a name for Minneapolis and St. Paul. But the point is that if we were applying the silly logic that team caps should have the full names of the political divisions they represent, Nationals caps would only have to say "DC".

I don't think that's true.

The official postal designation is "Washington, DC." I seem to recall being taught in school that the city name is Washington, and instead of being located within a state it is in a federal District. In general parlance, "DC" is used similar to the way one would use the name of a state.

In any case, "Washington" is much more than an informal designation.

[Blue Falcon]

The gold is really mustard yellow. And the green wouldn't match if the uniforms were truly trimmed in gold.

Methinks Mr. Christl needs his sight adjusted. I've never seen any mustard at the grocery store that is that shade of yellow!

The fact is the Pack have won six championships with those uniforms and colors. Maybe the logo doesn't make much sense, but it was adopted in 1961 when designs were still pretty simple.

I'm sure if the Pack hadn't won all those titles the logo would have been changed by now!

[BallWonk]

The official postal designation is "Washington, DC." I seem to recall being taught in school that the city name is Washington, and instead of being located within a state it is in a federal District. In general parlance, "DC" is used similar to the way one would use the name of a state.

In any case, "Washington" is much more than an informal designation.

So if the Postal Service says so, it must be true, huh? Does the fact that the Postal Service officially says that my zip code is in Alexandria, VA means that I really live in the city of Alexandria, and not just across the line in Fairfax County? No, it does not. The Postal Service adopts lots of place names for the sake of simplicity or to reflect customary and informal use. Just down the road from me, people get their mail addressed to "Mount Vernon, VA," even though they don't live in George Washington's house and there is no city or town or village of "Mount Vernon" either. It's just a zip code at one end of Fairfax County.

Fact: Before the District of Columbia was founded, there were two cities on the land that would become the federal district: Alexandria and Georgetown. Fact: After the District was established, the city of Washington was formed around the federal core of the city, several miles from Georgetown, and across the river from Alexandria. Fact: The Virginia side of the District, which included Alexandria was given back to Virginia before the Civil War. Fact: The city of Washington eventually grew in size to become coterminous with the District of Columbia, gobbling up Georgetown and a couple of other villages that had been formed within the District over the years. Fact: For an extended period, Congress did not allow elected home rule, so there was in function no city government of Washington. Fact: When Congress granted elected home rule, with a mayor and council, it was organized as the Government of the District of Columbia. The mayor is the Mayor of the District of Columbia. The legislature is the District Council. The stadium authority is the District of Columbia Sports and Entertainment Commission. And so forth.

There. Is. No. City. Of. Washington.

The name "Washington" survives in customary use, and even continues to be used by the federal government in official descriptions of its capital city.

But the point raised in this thread about how if the Packers have to say GB then the Yankees have to say NYC is about the formal, legal names of the jurisdictions where teams play. By those terms, there is no "Washington" here. There is only the District of Columbia. "Washington" is just a historical name we use to describe what now formally exists as the District of Columbia.

This doesn't mean that the name "Washington, DC" isn't real, or that it's wrong to use it. Just that there is no actual city in the District of Columbia named "Washington." It's just a customary place-name widely used and understood by all.

[kurtman62]

I happen to like, no, love the Packers unis the way they are right now! I'd tell that writer where to go, but I'm keeping this message clean.

[dunford]

NO, officially it is the City of New York.

And, people call it NYC, never NY.

Wrong.

New York City is "New York, NY."

That's the mailing address. That's what people from New York call it. Only people who aren't from New York refer to it as New York City, really.

[CC97]

Not sure how this turned into a argument about the post office, but I figure I'd throw my situation in here... where I grew up, our address was located in "Don Mills, ON"... but there is no such place as Don Mills, ON... in fact Don Mills is just a street in North York/Toronto... but according to the post office, we lived in a place called Don Mills, Ontario.

[CJR]

I can't speak for now, but at one time there was a city of Washington inside the District of Columbia. The only other city in the District was Georgetown, but eventually that was absorbed by Washington. So you had Washington, DC, and Georgetown, DC. I wouldn't know if Washington and DC are merged now or what.

As for mailing addresses and such... I believe that the city listed in the address is the home of the nearest post office. I recently lived in Meridian Township, Michigan, outside the limits of Okemos. My mail was sent to Okemos, MI. While I didn't live in Okemos, mail was addressed there because it was where the post office that handled mail for Meridian Township was. In other words, just because your mail is sent there doesn't mean you live there.

Edit:

From Wikipedia's Washington, DC, entry.:

Washington, D.C. is the capital city of the United States of America. "D.C." stands for the "District of Columbia", the federal district containing the city of Washington. The city is named after George Washington, military leader of the American Revolution and the first President of the United States. The District of Columbia and the city of Washington are coextensive and are governed by a single municipal government, so for most practical purposes they are considered to be the same entity (this was not always the case, though, as Georgetown was a separate city within the District until 1871). However, although there is a municipal government and a mayor, as per Article I, Section VIII, of the United States Constitution, Congress has the sole authority over this federal district and thus the municipal government and mayor exist in the shadows of Congress. It is commonly known as the District, D.C., or simply Washington. Historically, it was called the Federal City or Washington City.

[Gothamite]

I can't speak for now, but at one time there was a city of Washington inside the District of Columbia. The only other city in the District was Georgetown, but eventually that was absorbed by Washington. So you had Washington, DC, and Georgetown, DC. I wouldn't know if Washington and DC are merged now or what.

Well, he makes a good point that there is no Washington government per se. The government is the Disctrict. But now that the city of Washington fills the entire Disctrict, that makes a certain amount of sense.

Doesn't erase Washington as a city, though. I'm not aware of Congress ever formally disbanding the city in favor of the District.

As I said, it's more than simply an unofficial name.

[illinirox1]

The gold is really mustard yellow. And the green wouldn't match if the uniforms were truly trimmed in gold.

Methinks Mr. Christl needs his sight adjusted. I've never seen any mustard at the grocery store that is that shade of yellow!

The fact is the Pack have won six championships with those uniforms and colors. Maybe the logo doesn't make much sense, but it was adopted in 1961 when designs were still pretty simple.

I'm sure if the Pack hadn't won all those titles the logo would have been changed by now!

I think he means yellow hot dog mustard. But hating on green and gold? Didn't he see the Celtics' St. Patty's day unis?

Seriously though, the packers have one of the best identities in sports because of the history. Even if the "G" doesn't make sense, and some people hate the colors, when you look at a TV and see one team wearing Green and Yellow, and another lined up in away jerseys in the cold, you know what's going down.

[wman]

Didn't they threaten to go to BLUE and not GREEN jerseys right before they got good again in the early 90's?

[Gothamite]

Well, there is a great history of the Packers wearing blue. They did consider changing it back in the early 1990s, but never seriously.

The uniform change that Rol Wolf proposed (and almost went through with) was a darker green and a metallic gold. Not navy.

[DrBear]

I've always believed that the story about the blue jerseys in the early Ron Wolf era came about after somebody at the Journal Sentinel (which broke the story) saw prototypes for the throwback jerseys (which WERE blue and gold) and thought it was for a permanent change.

[ProvidenceRI]

New York City is "New York, NY."

That's the mailing address. That's what people from New York call it. Only people who aren't from New York refer to it as New York City, really.

Um. I lived there. I assure you people who live there refer to the burrough that they are in, or "the city"... then "NYC" if they are talking abut all 5 burroughs. "New York" is a vague term for New Yorkers. It could refer to the state or the city.

So, don't tell me I'm wrong. I'm not telling anybody they are wrong, I'm just bringing to people's attention the acronym problem here.

The post office is only a system for mail delivery, it is not the recordkeeper of town names, or a geographical institute... after all I live in one town, but my mailing address is for another town due to post office guidelines.

[paynomind]

The gold is really mustard yellow. And the green wouldn't match if the uniforms were truly trimmed in gold.

Methinks Mr. Christl needs his sight adjusted. I've never seen any mustard at the grocery store that is that shade of yellow!

Arent these pretty close to the same color?

Methinks Mr. Christl sees just fine

[Gothamite]

The post office is only a system for mail delivery, it is not the recordkeeper of town names, or a geographical institute... after all I live in one town, but my mailing address is for another town due to post office guidelines.

Okay, we can offically drop the post office thing.

If anyone still doubts that "Washington" is more than an unofficial name, they can take it up with the DMV.

[bricknivy]

Would like to disagree about the Packers uniform. It's a classic. Not perfect but a winner.

The Yankees uniforms are both snoozers but classic nonetheless, because of what it represents.

The Candiens uniform is outstanding true, but the best NHL uniform in a runaway is the Blackhawks red jersey. The incredible indianhead crest and the "C" with the tomahawks secondary logos on the sleeves (the best secondary in sports). Stunningly beautiful.

Thoughts?