Barry Bonds hits #714

[NJTank]

Yeah MLB banned them but didnt test for them

[floydnimrod]

I'll prolly take heat for this but....

Who Cares?

Oooh Bonds* is in second place

I dont think Casey Mears got this much pub for finishing second in the Daytona 500

or Sweetnorhternsaint finishing second today at Pimlico

*may have taken steroids

[HedleyLamarr]

Isn't marijuana use illegal, too?

How about abiding by all the traffic laws?

I'm pretty sure there have been players who have beaten their spouses, which is also a no-no.

I don't see any fuss about banning or adding asterisks to any records or numbers for such offenders as Michael Irvin, Randy Moss, and Dany Heatley because of their run-ins with the law. Illegal is illegal, right?

[Fred T. Jane]

Like the US refused to recognize the People's Republic of China as ligit until the 1970's, I refuse to recongnize Bonds tying Ruth's record. He cheated. Plain and simple. He even admitted to taking steroids. He also said he wasn't aware that he was taking steroids. Whether that's true or not, it dosn't make a difference. He took steroids, he cheated.

How anyone can continue to defend him beyond me. It's just a shame that he'll probablly get away with cheating to break the records of two of baseball's greatest players.

714** Indeed

Of course, you were protesting the admittance of Gaylord Perry (an admitted cheater), who cheated his way to an unknown percentage of his 314 wins and 11 saves when he was admitted to the Baseball Hall of Fame in 1991. How about all of the players who used amphetamines? You want an asterisk next to their names also?

BTW, 100% correct Hedely. The lack outrage toward these folks is pretty telling. I guess had Bonds smiled and acted personable, it would be A-OK. Just ask McGwire and Sosa about this. It worked for them...

[NJTank]

Heres the thing with Bonds he does not have a single redeming quality about him. Hes a cheater a nasty person to fans and teammates a like, a naricisit just obssesed with himself and hes nasty to everyone.

[Fred T. Jane]

Heres the thing with Bonds he does not have a single redeming quality about him. Hes a cheater a nasty person to fans and teammates a like, a naricisit just obssesed with himself and hes nasty to everyone.

So 714 needs an asterisk next to it because he's a cranky person?

I think you just proved the final point of my previous post...

[FiddySicks]

Take that you haters.

[HedleyLamarr]

Heres the thing with Bonds he does not have a single redeming quality about him. Hes a cheater a nasty person to fans and teammates a like, a naricisit just obssesed with himself and hes nasty to everyone.

I'm not a supporter of Bonds by any stretch, don't get me wrong.

But tell me why Bonds should have an asterisk next to his final HR total because of being a subpar teammate and relative jerk to the media. Is Bonds' HR total a personal accomplishment or a team accomplishment? And if there was no testing before 2005, how can any of us prove he took steroids? Through word of mouth? Granted, I don't have members of the media following my every move for at least 7 months a year, but I would imagine I'd get pretty short with the media too if they kept asking me the same questions, day-in day-out.

I think that Barry is generally a good guy when the cameras aren't around and no microphones plugged into his mouth. It's just that we never get to see who Barry really is, and that the media paints him up to be this villian so the general public has someone that they despise.

[Jigga]

Heres the thing with Bonds he does not have a single redeming quality about him. Hes a cheater a nasty person to fans and teammates a like, a naricisit just obssesed with himself and hes nasty to everyone.

And you would know this how???

[LMU]

I refuse to recongnize Bonds tying Ruth's record. He cheated. Plain and simple. He even admitted to taking steroids. He also said he wasn't aware that he was taking steroids. Whether that's true or not, it dosn't make a difference. He took steroids, he cheated.

Steriods weren't against the rules in baseball up until last season, so Bonds' homeruns are legitiment. Regardless of what you think of steriods, anyone in the sport could have taken them too, including his opposing pitchers. Now if MLB tests him after today's game and it comes back positive, then by all means call him a cheater. If not, be quiet.

I agree with this completely. In terms of the memo though, I find that on par with those strange laws on the books, like the law in Eureka, CA banning men with moustaches from kissing women. If a rule isn't enforced, then you can't really fault someone who may not in fact be aware of the rule being in place. Granted, what Barry did was illegal, but the argument about Dany Heatley certainly applies, as although a policy may have been in place without enforcement, Selig had the responsibility of seeing that this policy be more than just a threat, but at the same time, Barry still has to answer to the law.

So, in my case, I don't think that there should be any asterisk attached to his record. And quite frankly, almost goes to show that maybe the Babe could have still been #2 or even #1 if he laid off the beer, hot dogs, and women in his playing days. Yet, it'll be interesting to see how this feat helps Barry out when he's behind bars for purgery.

[STL FANATIC]

Heres the thing with Bonds he does not have a single redeming quality about him. Hes a cheater a nasty person to fans and teammates a like, a naricisit just obssesed with himself and hes nasty to everyone.

I'm not a supporter of Bonds by any stretch, don't get me wrong.

But tell me why Bonds should have an asterisk next to his final HR total because of being a subpar teammate and relative jerk to the media. Is Bonds' HR total a personal accomplishment or a team accomplishment? And if there was no testing before 2005, how can any of us prove he took steroids? Through word of mouth? Granted, I don't have members of the media following my every move for at least 7 months a year, but I would imagine I'd get pretty short with the media too if they kept asking me the same questions, day-in day-out.

I think that Barry is generally a good guy when the cameras aren't around and no microphones plugged into his mouth. It's just that we never get to see who Barry really is, and that the media paints him up to be this villian so the general public has someone that they despise.

We don't require video camera proof to give someone the death penalty for murdering someone, and that's a more serious matter.

Just the same, if other evidence proves beyond much doubt that Bonds took steriods, that is your proof. I have not read the book, but it sounds to me that if the sources are legit than there is a book out there already that does a good chunk of proving. A further investigating is ongoing to see if more eviidence can be come up with.

You don't have to have a urinal sample to prove Bonds took steriods, you just have to have enough evidence.

Also, forget Bonds personality. Forget that players beat their wives. Barry didn't just break rules on route to gaining his numbers, he CHEATED by using illegal drugs that directly contribute to his performance in the game of baseball.

You bring up Gaylord Perry. And yes, I wonder if his cheating shouldn't be lumped in with Barry's. Still, it is two different kinds of cheating. Perry broke in-game rules. Those types of infractions are the kind that the umps are supposed to detect and take care of. Bonds broke league rules. The type that the league should detect and hand out appropriate punishment. Not completely different, but different enough.

All this said, I don't know if you asterick Barry or not no matter what the findings, but I think you could.

I also want to add that Barry Bonds was and is a great baseball player who was gonna be Hall of Fame worthy whether or not he took steriods. Still, he very likely increased his production by using illegal steriods.

[jkrdevil]

Isn't marijuana use illegal, too?

How about abiding by all the traffic laws?

I'm pretty sure there have been players who have beaten their spouses, which is also a no-no.

I don't see any fuss about banning or adding asterisks to any records or numbers for such offenders as Michael Irvin, Randy Moss, and Dany Heatley because of their run-ins with the law. Illegal is illegal, right?

Well there have been players suspended for beating their wives (Will Cordero comes to mind) and certaintly MLB can suspend players for those things.

The difference with steroids is it is a crime that directly affects the performance in the game. While I don't think you can take away any home runs because that opens up a bigger can of worms. If any investigation, whether it be MLB's or the Federal Government's finds the use of steroids by Bonds then an astriks should be placed next to his record if he breaks Hank Aarons record (Which is a big if). Overall I feel it will be up to the fans to make sure the steroid issue is not lost with time. And to be clear this goes for McGwire's record as well.

I don't think the fact that these guys broke baseball rules and in doing so broke the law should be overlooked.

[HedleyLamarr]

We don't require video camera proof to give someone the death penalty for murdering someone, and that's a more serious matter.

Just the same, if other evidence proves beyond much doubt that Bonds took steriods, that is your proof. I have not read the book, but it sounds to me that if the sources are legit than there is a book out there already that does a good chunk of proving. A further investigating is ongoing to see if more eviidence can be come up with.

You don't have to have a urinal sample to prove Bonds took steriods, you just have to have enough evidence.

Also, forget Bonds personality. Forget that players beat their wives. Barry didn't just break rules on route to gaining his numbers, he CHEATED by using illegal drugs that directly contribute to his performance in the game of baseball.

You bring up Gaylord Perry. And yes, I wonder if his cheating shouldn't be lumped in with Barry's. Still, it is two different kinds of cheating. Perry broke in-game rules. Those types of infractions are the kind that the umps are supposed to detect and take care of. Bonds broke league rules. The type that the league should detect and hand out appropriate punishment. Not completely different, but different enough.

All this said, I don't know if you asterick Barry or not no matter what the findings, but I think you could.

I also want to add that Barry Bonds was and is a great baseball player who was gonna be Hall of Fame worthy whether or not he took steriods. Still, he very likely increased his production by using illegal steriods.

I've yet to read the book either. However, if these writers aren't divulging their sources, why should I take second-hand information as undeniable truth? If these writers have nothing to hide, what's stopping them from telling us the names of who they interviewed and what all they know? Seems kind of fishy to me that they wouldn't give names as to who told them.

he CHEATED by using illegal drugs that directly contribute to his performance in the game of baseball.

Prove it.

Personally, I attribute his success on four things: a great knowledge of the strike zone, facing weaker pitching that what Ruth and Aaron faced in their eras, smaller ballparks than the ones Ruth and Aaron played in, and having so much protective armor on him that he has no fear of inside pitches, which means he can sit on the outside pitches and crush them.

You bring up Gaylord Perry. And yes, I wonder if his cheating shouldn't be lumped in with Barry's. Still, it is two different kinds of cheating. Perry broke in-game rules. Those types of infractions are the kind that the umps are supposed to detect and take care of. Bonds broke league rules. The type that the league should detect and hand out appropriate punishment. Not completely different, but different enough.

If MLB isn't policing their game, do you blame the players or do you blame the league? If a cop watches you jaywalk or watches you murder some doughnut shop clerk, and the cop does nothing about it, do you blame the lawbreaker or the cop, on the lack of consequences given to the lawbreaker? Is it any of the players' faults that MLB didn't police their steroids policy or do anything about it to ensure no steroids would be in the league? Again, if there were no steroid testings back then, how do you begin to prove which players used them and which players didn't? We're back to relying on word of mouth, which is always shady.

[IceCap]

Isn't marijuana use illegal, too?

How about abiding by all the traffic laws?

I'm pretty sure there have been players who have beaten their spouses, which is also a no-no.

I don't see any fuss about banning or adding asterisks to any records or numbers for such offenders as Michael Irvin, Randy Moss, and Dany Heatley because of their run-ins with the law. Illegal is illegal, right?

Marijuana and breaking traffic laws dosn't give a batter an unfair advantage. To compare Bonds taking steroids to an other player smoking a joint is a cheap way out of an argument. Marijuana wont help you break records, steroids can.

Also, they were banned in the MLB as early as 1991, as jkrdevil pointed out, basically making your entire argument void. He broke a MLB rule to achieve an unfair advantage, as well as break a federal law. How anyone can come to his defence is mind boggeling.

And if there was no testing before 2005, how can any of us prove he took steroids? Through word of mouth?

He admitted to taking them, all though he said at the time he took them he didn't know they were steroids. Either way, he took a substance that was banned by MLB and that helped him gain an unfair advantage.

Just ask McGwire and Sosa about this. It worked for them...

No, it didn't. Sosa's been more or less driven from the game, and McGwire's recods are seen with just as much suspicion as Bonds'. The difference is that McGwire's retired. If he was still playing and hitting 40+ a year, he'd get the same treatment as Bonds. Don't fool yourself.

[quantum]

How many players did steroids and were just average? People need to get passed this being Barry Bonds acting naughty. The league failed to test for it. If an asterisk is to be added, it needs to be added for the entire era.

This issue is beyond one person. Sure, Bonds can be a jerk. If he was a nice guy, does that really change anything? The league corrupted the integrity of the game.

Taking steroids may be cheating, but you still need to do the reps to make it pay off.

[HedleyLamarr]

Either way, he took a substance that was banned by MLB and that helped him gain an unfair advantage.

What unfair advantage did Bonds gain when he used steroids? That's been a common, vague, beaten-to-death phrase that no one has described yet.

What edge did steroids give Barry that protective gear, smaller ballparks, and a collectively lesser degree of pitching didn't give?

[STL FANATIC]

Either way, he took a substance that was banned by MLB and that helped him gain an unfair advantage.

What unfair advantage did Bonds gain when he used steroids? That's been a common, vague, beaten-to-death phrase that no one has described yet.

What edge did steroids give Barry that protective gear, smaller ballparks, and a collectively lesser degree of pitching didn't give?

Strength. Barry was already a great hitter. He was made even better by the factors you mention. When he got huge, so did his HR totals. It's not like there is not a correalation. His stats got even better from the fact that pitchers started wetting themselves when he came to bat and allowed him to look for one pitch and either [a] hit it out, or walk, but that's another story entirely.

The point is, Bonds HR production increased when his size increased, and his size increased when he (allegedly) started using steriods.

Your talking about deep line drives now carrying out of the park. Hitting it through wind resistance. All kinds of things.

I don't care what they do with Barry's numbers though. They can take away his records (not his stats, but his records) or they can asterick them. (Whatever they do though needs to come as a result of finding him to have used steriods through an investigation. Then, if they hand down punishment on his records, they need to also investigate guys like Mac and Sosa who (1) hold records--or near records and (2) have at least intriguing evidence about possible steriod usage.) They can also leave Barry's records alone.

At this point the fans can handle it just by how much credit they give Barry.

[Drew22]

714(No asterik)

IF, he failed a drug test would'nt it come out? THe press can get a hold of almost anything, but they have yet to release an actual drug test that he failed. He should make this fact known that he did not take steroids. Bonds knew what he was doing and he was and still is great at hitting homers.

DRew

[Fred T. Jane]

No, it didn't. Sosa's been more or less driven from the game, and McGwire's recods are seen with just as much suspicion as Bonds'. The difference is that McGwire's retired. If he was still playing and hitting 40+ a year, he'd get the same treatment as Bonds. Don't fool yourself.

I'm not folling myself. Everyone *still* gets all warm-and-fuzzy when they talk about 1998, and when you ask the average Joe about McGwire, they'll either shrug or say something to the tune of "Eh, I remember saying he used some stuff called Andro or something..." As for Sosa, perhaps he was "driven from the game" because his on-field performance had completely tanked, not because he used allegedly used steroids, something Rafael Palmiero couldn't avoid.

[jkrdevil]

No, it didn't. Sosa's been more or less driven from the game, and McGwire's recods are seen with just as much suspicion as Bonds'. The difference is that McGwire's retired. If he was still playing and hitting 40+ a year, he'd get the same treatment as Bonds. Don't fool yourself.

I'm not folling myself. Everyone *still* gets all warm-and-fuzzy when they talk about 1998, and when you ask the average Joe about McGwire, they'll either shrug or say something to the tune of "Eh, I remember saying he used some stuff called Andro or something..." As for Sosa, perhaps he was "driven from the game" because his on-field performance had completely tanked, not because he used allegedly used steroids, something Rafael Palmiero couldn't avoid.

Well, I know I don't get warm and fuzzy. When anyone mentions or I see footage of the 98 homerun race the first thing that comes to mind now is steroids.

I've yet to read the book either. However, if these writers aren't divulging their sources, why should I take second-hand information as undeniable truth? If these writers have nothing to hide, what's stopping them from telling us the names of who they interviewed and what all they know? Seems kind of fishy to me that they wouldn't give names as to who told them.

Then I take it you thought Nixon had no connection to the Watergate break-in up until a year ago or so when "Deep Throat" was revealed. After all, that story was broke and reported by using unnamed sources. Unnamed sources are used all the time in reporting and usually for legitimate reasons. I don't see how this would be any different.

Considering the fact a grand jury is investigating Bonds for perjury I would be willing to bet the book is pretty accurate.

Also your reasons for why Bonds is having so much access don't answer the question of why he is having career years at the age most ballplayers (notably his father) start to break down physically. Yes your reasons would give a small spike to the overall numbers which would mean one or two, 50 home run guys per year in the 90's and 2000 compared to the zero 50 home run guys in the 80's. And those guys most likely would be in there prime around 27-30 not over 35 years old.

IF, he failed a drug test would'nt it come out? THe press can get a hold of almost anything, but they have yet to release an actual drug test that he failed. He should make this fact known that he did not take steroids. Bonds knew what he was doing and he was and still is great at hitting homers.

Well Bonds was taking steroids that were designed to not test positive on an Olympic drug test, which is the toughest test for sports. So of course he wouldn't test positive on a MLB test. However all other evidence points to steroid use. Bonds not testing positive is like fooling a polygraph machine.