Rays seem ready to dump Devil

[Gothamite]

The logo predates the WTC.

From the Mets' site:

November 16, 1961 - The circular Mets logo, designed by sports cartoonist Ray Gatto, was unveiled. It has gone virtually unchanged throughout the history of the club. The shape of the insignia, with its orange stitching, represents a baseball, and the bridge in the foreground symbolizes that the Mets, in bringing back the National League to New York, represent all five boroughs. It's not just a skyline in the background, but has a special meaning. At the left is a church spire, symbolic of Brooklyn, the borough of churches. The second building from the left is the Williamsburg Savings Bank, the tallest building in Brooklyn. Next is the Woolworth Building. After a general skyline view of midtown comes the Empire State Building. At the far right is the United Nations Building. The Mets' colors are Dodger blue and Giant orange, symbolic of the return of National League baseball to New York after the Dodgers and Giants moved to California. Blue and Orange are also the official colors of New York State.

And of New York City (could that be the first time the team has laid claim to the state?).

[powersurge]

The logo predates the WTC.

From the Mets' site:

November 16, 1961 - The circular Mets logo, designed by sports cartoonist Ray Gatto, was unveiled. It has gone virtually unchanged throughout the history of the club. The shape of the insignia, with its orange stitching, represents a baseball, and the bridge in the foreground symbolizes that the Mets, in bringing back the National League to New York, represent all five boroughs. It's not just a skyline in the background, but has a special meaning. At the left is a church spire, symbolic of Brooklyn, the borough of churches. The second building from the left is the Williamsburg Savings Bank, the tallest building in Brooklyn. Next is the Woolworth Building. After a general skyline view of midtown comes the Empire State Building. At the far right is the United Nations Building. The Mets' colors are Dodger blue and Giant orange, symbolic of the return of National League baseball to New York after the Dodgers and Giants moved to California. Blue and Orange are also the official colors of New York State.

And of New York City (could that be the first time the team has laid claim to the state?).

DAMN! I was going to write United Nations Building...UGH!

Well thanks for the info.

Islanders have blue and orange too....coincidence?

[Gothamite]

I doubt that it is.

Long Island has been Mets territory since Shea Stadium opened (if not before then). Plus the Mets were very successful on the field, and popular, in the years leading up to the Islanders' debut.

Add that to the whole "colors of the state" thing, and it's a natural.

The Islanders are an unusual example, though, the more I think about it. Named after the state, but only staking a claim to a very limited part of it....

[Survival79]

Sternberg: Payroll will increase

Posted By Marc Lancaster at Sep 27, 2007 at 07:27 PM

Updated Sep 27, 2007 at 08:01 PM

Sternberg also addressed what seemed to be one of the top complaints from fans about the new uniform designs that leaked out last week?the apparent decision to remove ?Tampa Bay? from the road uniforms. Sternberg noted that ?Tampa Bay? isn?t a city before mounting his defense of the move?which of course he would not officially confirm.

?We really have a new brand, and I don?t want to say exactly what they?re going to be looking like away or not and confirm whether it?s Tampa Bay [on the road uniforms] or not, but we?re going to be pushing a new name for the team and I think that?s something we would like our fans to see at all chances we can get,? he said. ?So if in fact we?ve got the [nickname] on the away uniforms, that?s really the concept behind it.?

[Waffles]

I doubt that it is.

Long Island has been Mets territory since Shea Stadium opened (if not before then). Plus the Mets were very successful on the field, and popular, in the years leading up to the Islanders' debut.

Add that to the whole "colors of the state" thing, and it's a natural.

The Islanders are an unusual example, though, the more I think about it. Named after the state, but only staking a claim to a very limited part of it....

You could argue the California Angels were named similarly...given the state's name as their location, with a name that makes reference to their specific neck of the woods.

Also, I think New York's state colors are Blue and Gold. New York City's are Blue and Orange.

EDIT: Nassau County's colors are Orange and Blue as well. That might explain the Islanders' motif.

[Mac the Knife]

Just checked - don't see anything in the regulations about team names. The regulations are largely about game conditions, not the manner in which franchises are run.

Any source for your claim, Mad Mac?

There is, but admittedly its an old copy, pre-2002. I know the document's been modified since then, so its possible if not likely this prohibition no longer applies.

[Survival79]

Notes: Sternberg pleased with direction

By Bill Chastain / MLB.com

09/27/2007 9:02 PM ET

Sternberg also talked about the team's uniforms without validating the leaked reports.

"The uniforms, some portion of them, have come out, apparently or possibly on the Internet, the beauty of the Internet and the curse," he said. "It's certainly a new era. We'd like to think we've got a real new beginning here, new colors, new name. ... We're really excited about bringing it out to the Tampa Bay region. ... It's going to give us the opportunity, again, to reinvent ourselves."

I'm not holding my breath.

[Gothamite]

Just checked - don't see anything in the regulations about team names. The regulations are largely about game conditions, not the manner in which franchises are run.

Any source for your claim, Mad Mac?

There is, but admittedly its an old copy, pre-2002. I know the document's been modified since then, so its possible if not likely this prohibition no longer applies.

Sounds like it. It's certainly not in the current version. So they could take it if they really wanted it.

[Gothamite]

I doubt that it is.

The Islanders are an unusual example, though, the more I think about it. Named after the state, but only staking a claim to a very limited part of it....

You could argue the California Angels were named similarly...given the state's name as their location, with a name that makes reference to their specific neck of the woods.

Some pretty significant differences - the Angels' name isn't exclusive to one area, and they wore a sleeve patch of the entire state, not just one section of the state.

[powersurge]

Sternberg: Payroll will increase

Posted By Marc Lancaster at Sep 27, 2007 at 07:27 PM

Updated Sep 27, 2007 at 08:01 PM

Sternberg also addressed what seemed to be one of the top complaints from fans about the new uniform designs that leaked out last week?the apparent decision to remove ?Tampa Bay? from the road uniforms. Sternberg noted that ?Tampa Bay? isn?t a city before mounting his defense of the move?which of course he would not officially confirm.

?We really have a new brand, and I don?t want to say exactly what they?re going to be looking like away or not and confirm whether it?s Tampa Bay [on the road uniforms] or not, but we?re going to be pushing a new name for the team and I think that?s something we would like our fans to see at all chances we can get,? he said. ?So if in fact we?ve got the [nickname] on the away uniforms, that?s really the concept behind it.?

Sternberg sounds like he's back peddling here. Nicely packaged pile of bull if you ask me. If they continue to stink and leave the Trop empty of fans every night it'll be much easier for them to use the 'Rays' uniforms in Las Vegas without having to change them. I know we spoke about the feasiblity of them getting out of their lease already, but I'm just saying. Sounds alot like when the Minnesota NorthStars changed their unis to 'Stars' and left town a few years later.

[Mac the Knife]

Sternberg sounds like he's back peddling here. Nicely packaged pile of bull if you ask me. If they continue to stink and leave the Trop empty of fans every night it'll be much easier for them to use the 'Rays' uniforms in Las Vegas without having to change them. I know we spoke about the feasiblity of them getting out of their lease already, but I'm just saying. Sounds alot like when the Minnesota NorthStars changed their unis to 'Stars' and left town a few years later.

Uh... the Stars didn't drop "North" until they moved.

[Mac the Knife]

Just checked - don't see anything in the regulations about team names. The regulations are largely about game conditions, not the manner in which franchises are run.

Any source for your claim, Mad Mac?

There is, but admittedly its an old copy, pre-2002. I know the document's been modified since then, so its possible if not likely this prohibition no longer applies.

Sounds like it. It's certainly not in the current version. So they could take it if they really wanted it.

Any chance you could send me an electronic copy? I don't have the latest and greatest.

[Gothamite]

I found a copy here.

Don't see anything about names in it. The list of territories is very interesting.

[powersurge]

Sternberg sounds like he's back peddling here. Nicely packaged pile of bull if you ask me. If they continue to stink and leave the Trop empty of fans every night it'll be much easier for them to use the 'Rays' uniforms in Las Vegas without having to change them. I know we spoke about the feasiblity of them getting out of their lease already, but I'm just saying. Sounds alot like when the Minnesota NorthStars changed their unis to 'Stars' and left town a few years later.

Uh... the Stars didn't drop "North" until they moved.

I should have been more specific.

They dropped 'North' from their jerseys BEFORE the move.

EDIT: Actually I was quite specific. Reread my post.

http://www.sportsecyclopedia.com/nhl/minny...northstars.html

[Gothamite]

Sternberg sounds like he's back peddling here. Nicely packaged pile of bull if you ask me. If they continue to stink and leave the Trop empty of fans every night it'll be much easier for them to use the 'Rays' uniforms in Las Vegas without having to change them. I know we spoke about the feasiblity of them getting out of their lease already, but I'm just saying.

I'm sorry, but I just don't buy that.

No team will move in the middle of a season, and they need to buy new uniforms in the off-season anyway (not to mention caps). So how does removing the location from the jersey help?

[powersurge]

Sternberg sounds like he's back peddling here. Nicely packaged pile of bull if you ask me. If they continue to stink and leave the Trop empty of fans every night it'll be much easier for them to use the 'Rays' uniforms in Las Vegas without having to change them. I know we spoke about the feasiblity of them getting out of their lease already, but I'm just saying.

I'm sorry, but I just don't buy that.

No team will move in the middle of a season, and they need to buy new uniforms in the off-season anyway (not to mention caps). So how does removing the location from the jersey help?

No one said that they'd move in the MIDDLE of a season. (although professional franchises have done that before) What I was getting at was the fact that they'd start branding themselves primarily as the 'Rays' and take away the 'Tampa Bay' from the jersey. Seems to me that they aren't trying too hard to associate themselves as much with the Tampa Bay region. Its similar to the Anaheim Angels. They removed Anaheim from the roads to promote the 'Angels' identity, then they changed their name to L.A. Angels (of Anaheim) to brand themselves as a Los Angeles team. That is what I'm getting at. Maybe FLORIDA Rays is on the way...who knows?

[Gothamite]

That makes more sense, but I'm still not sure.

They did keep "TB" on the caps. The team could even have claimed historical justification in replacing it with the ray logo, although that would have required picking between one of their two identities.

Seems to me that they aren't trying too hard to associate themselves as much with the Tampa Bay region.

I'm not aware of that. Other than removing the name from their roads, what have they done to downplay Tampa Bay? The Angels took "Anaheim" off the roads as part of a large marketing push claiming the city of Los Angeles.

I still think if they were going to re-brand the regional name, they would have done so as part of this re-branding.

[powersurge]

That makes more sense, but I'm still not sure.

They did keep "TB" on the caps. The team could even have claimed historical justification in replacing it with the ray logo, although that would have required picking between one of their two identities.

Seems to me that they aren't trying too hard to associate themselves as much with the Tampa Bay region.

I'm not aware of that. Other than removing the name from their roads, what have they done to downplay Tampa Bay? The Angels took "Anaheim" off the roads as part of a large marketing push claiming the city of Los Angeles.

I still think if they were going to re-brand the regional name, they would have done so as part of this re-branding.

You actually make a good point about the 'TB'. I thought about that for a second and realized that if they really did want to de-emphasize there association with 'Tampa Bay' they wouldn't use the 'TB' on the hats. I still think it may be a possiblity of them eventually using the 'Florida' name.

The whole new identity seems very non-committed. IOW, too much of a compromise of everything instead of going down one particular road. Maybe I'm just projecting my own opinions on this thing...but then again, aren't we all?

[Gothamite]

The whole new identity seems very non-committed. IOW, too much of a compromise of everything instead of going down one particular road. Maybe I'm just projecting my own opinions on this thing...but then again, aren't we all?

Fair enough!

Look, I agree with you completely that the whole branding seems to be... off. Straddling the fence, trying to be all things to all people.

I think the difference between us is that you're looking for a reason why that should be, and I just think "Same old Devil Rays....".

[powersurge]

The whole new identity seems very non-committed. IOW, too much of a compromise of everything instead of going down one particular road. Maybe I'm just projecting my own opinions on this thing...but then again, aren't we all?

I think the difference between us is that you're looking for a reason why that should be, and I just think "Same old Devil Rays....".

You win.

BTW, if someone told me at the beginning of the season that there would be a team at 3-0 at the top of the NFC North and their colors were green and gold I would have laughed at them.

Well, Touche Green Bay. Touche.