The NHL: Americans vs. Canadians

[IronChefShark]

According to the latest figures, the Nashville Predators, being ranked 23rd in the NHL in attendance, have still drawn 87.3% to capacity for the season.

In comparision to another team in another sport, the Toronto Blue Jays were 18th in the MLB in total attendance, drawing 56.3% to capacity.

so why is everyone calling for the predators to move and nobody is even suggesting the blue jays should move?

and although this is two different sports leagues here with different venues and such, it is still the same issue. why is a team drawing 87.3% capacity considered unstable whereas a team that is drawing 56.3% capacity is considered stable?

I'm just saying......

[Guest]

Like you said, everything's relative. I think that Toronto is sort of regarded as a fair-weather city when it comes to teams other than the Leafs, so when you have a team that is only quite recently on the upswing and demonstrating a commitment to October after about a decade of mediocre-to-bad baseball, selling 57% of the Skydome over 81 dates isn't all that bad. I would also add that Toronto probably has much more solid support from a corporate standpoint as well, being a much larger and more important city, luxury boxes for Toronto baseball are going to rake in a lot more than they will for Nashville hockey. Furthermore, there's a considerable difference between being 18th of 30 and 23rd of 30. Just by eyeballing that, 18 is middle of the road, 23 is the bottom. If you wanted to run in that direction, why didn't you match up 23 with 23? I don't know who that would be--Rangers, Athletics, Mariners, and Orioles are my educated guesses--but that would at least be a fair comparison. As it stands, it just looks like you're trying to go after Canada in some silly revenge move.

[IronChefShark]

I also find it interesting how teams in alleged "unimportant" cities like Tampa and Nashville seems to be doing not just a little better but significantly better in attendance than a team in a big important city like Chicago

wait, Chicago isn't in Canada? oh snap!

[DG_YouKnowWhatThatMeans]

I also find it interesting how teams in alleged "unimportant" cities like Tampa and Nashville seems to be doing not just a little better but significantly better in attendance than a team in a big important city like Chicago

wait, Chicago isn't in Canada? oh snap!

That's because there's other stuff to do in Chicago. Tampa and Nashville are heehaw cities.

[rams80]

I also find it interesting how teams in alleged "unimportant" cities like Tampa and Nashville seems to be doing not just a little better but significantly better in attendance than a team in a big important city like Chicago

wait, Chicago isn't in Canada? oh snap!

That's because there's other stuff to do in Chicago. Tampa and Nashville are heehaw cities.

So following this line of reasoning we should take the teams from the big Northern markets and move them South because there's nothing to do down there besides drink and try to watch the Gen'l Lee go around in circles.

Of course I think the real reason Nashville wants to move is that most of that 12.7% missing games would probably be seated in the luxury boxes.

[Guest]

I also find it interesting how teams in alleged "unimportant" cities like Tampa and Nashville seems to be doing not just a little better but significantly better in attendance than a team in a big important city like Chicago

wait, Chicago isn't in Canada? oh snap!

So you mean to tell me that I finally exert myself and write more than a "stupid one-liner" in my reply to you and all you have is something that's not even germane to the argument at hand, e.g. your faulty comparison of the Predators and Blue Jays?

As for other things to do in Chicago, there's this one thing up in Rosemont called "the Chicago Wolves," where you can buy affordable tickets to watch competitive hockey, or failing that, watch home games on television featuring Chicago hockey legend Pat Foley. Chicago is a hockey town, no doubt about it, but when you have the worst owner in sports, who still doesn't trust the tele-vision not to hurt ticket sales, while putting shamelessly bad teams on the ice for the better part of the United Center's existence, I don't know what's to be done anymore. Bobby Hull, Stan Mikita, Phil Esposito, Keith Magnuson, Denis Savard, Jeremy Roenick, Ed Belfour, Chris Chelios, Wayne Messmer, the Chicago Stadium, the Barton organ, and of course the Indian head sweater are all near and dear to a Chicago sports fan's heart, but we're dealing with an organization in shambles tantamount to no other. The Lions have problems. The Raiders hit a skid. The Blackhawks are hopeless under Bill Wirtz. If you're not a struggling fan of this struggling club, you can't understand.

[IronChefShark]

I do not see how it is any different. You can numbers crunch all you want regarding how many of those actually attending are in the the club seats and suites and how many of those seats were or were not sold via various promotions such as 4 ticket family packs and such.

Bottom line is that there ARE people attending the games. Are they drawing SRO crowds? Obviously not, but the Nashville Predators situation is hardly a Montreal Expos situation, when a crowd of 7,000 was considered a good crowd. Nashville can suceed as a hockey market and from the looks of it, it will. I believe they are doing pretty well there when you consider that there is less visiting fan revenue, if you will with them when you consider that they maybe only play two teams on a regular basis that have well traveled fan bases (Detroit, St. Louis).

On that note, I would like to know how the Yankees and Red Sox fanbases effect the patronage of the Blue Jays, considering that they play an approx. total of 18 games at home against those two teams combined. You can't deny that the "glamour" teams if you will coming in to play the home team has a profound effect on how well a club does at the gate.

Also from the looks of things, it doesn't seem that Anaheim and Carolina don't have the attendance problems that seem to be falsely documented.

Bottom line, markets like Nashville, Carolina, Tampa deserve NHL clubs. Tampa even filled half a baseball stadium to capacity for NHL games and that was when the team wasn't contending and a few years after thier so called honeymoon period with the fans as an expansion franchise. That has to account for something.

Besides, if this global warming theory does come to fruition then the argument regarding having the proper climate to play hockey outdoors will be moot for all NHL fans seeing as how ponds won't be able to freeze even in Canada and all

and yes, for the record, Toronto does deserve an MLB club......

and at least Chicago has one major league club.......on the south side.

[HedleyLamarr]

and at least Chicago has one major league club.......on the south side.

Now that's what I call a parting shot....

[Bronxmet]

I do not see how it is any different. You can numbers crunch all you want regarding how many of those actually attending are in the the club seats and suites and how many of those seats were or were not sold via various promotions such as 4 ticket family packs and such.

Bottom line is that there ARE people attending the games. Are they drawing SRO crowds? Obviously not, but the Nashville Predators situation is hardly a Montreal Expos situation, when a crowd of 7,000 was considered a good crowd. Nashville can suceed as a hockey market and from the looks of it, it will. I believe they are doing pretty well there when you consider that there is less visiting fan revenue, if you will with them when you consider that they maybe only play two teams on a regular basis that have well traveled fan bases (Detroit, St. Louis).

On that note, I would like to know how the Yankees and Red Sox fanbases effect the patronage of the Blue Jays, considering that they play an approx. total of 18 games at home against those two teams combined. You can't deny that the "glamour" teams if you will coming in to play the home team has a profound effect on how well a club does at the gate.

Also from the looks of things, it doesn't seem that Anaheim and Carolina don't have the attendance problems that seem to be falsely documented.

Bottom line, markets like Nashville, Carolina, Tampa deserve NHL clubs. Tampa even filled half a baseball stadium to capacity for NHL games and that was when the team wasn't contending and a few years after thier so called honeymoon period with the fans as an expansion franchise. That has to account for something.

Besides, if this global warming theory does come to fruition then the argument regarding having the proper climate to play hockey outdoors will be moot for all NHL fans seeing as how ponds won't be able to freeze even in Canada and all

and yes, for the record, Toronto does deserve an MLB club......

and at least Chicago has one major league club.......on the south side.

As for Yankees and Red Sox affecting attendance, look at Baltimore and Tampa Bay more than Toronto. At least there are more Jays fans in Toronto where as I see more NY/Boston fans in Baltimore and Tampa.

[marlinfan]

I also find it interesting how teams in alleged "unimportant" cities like Tampa and Nashville seems to be doing not just a little better but significantly better in attendance than a team in a big important city like Chicago

wait, Chicago isn't in Canada? oh snap!

That's because there's other stuff to do in Chicago. Tampa and Nashville are heehaw cities.

Tampa has more entertainment options than 80% of other NHL markets; the beach being a huge #1.To call it a 'heehaw' city (whatever the hell that is supposed to mean in the first place) is downright laughable and just shows your lack of knowledge (or ignorance) to other parts of the country.

[DG_YouKnowWhatThatMeans]

I also find it interesting how teams in alleged "unimportant" cities like Tampa and Nashville seems to be doing not just a little better but significantly better in attendance than a team in a big important city like Chicago

wait, Chicago isn't in Canada? oh snap!

That's because there's other stuff to do in Chicago. Tampa and Nashville are heehaw cities.

Tampa has more entertainment options than 80% of other NHL markets; the beach being a huge #1.To call it a 'heehaw' city (whatever the hell that is supposed to mean in the first place) is downright laughable and just shows your lack of knowledge (or ignorance) to other parts of the country.

I'm sure I'm not the only person who remembers this: http://boards.sportslogos.net/index.php?sh...6881&st=20#

And if by "entertainment options" you mean "more strip clubs per capita than any other city," then you're absolutely right. Tampa has more titty bars than nearly any other city in the U.S. But I'm not sure what beach you're talking about. When I lived in Tampa, we either went to Clearwater or St. Pete for a beach. Neither of those cities are in Tampa. However, I didn't live in Tampa for very long so I could be mistaken.

[njmeadowlanders]

All I can say is that if anyone was at either Rangers-Islanders game this past week (Madison Square Garden March 5th, Nassau Colisseum March 8th), I'd like you to tell me nobody in America cares...

And I'm aware it WAS Rangers-Islanders, but still...you should've heard those buildings...

[marlinfan]

I also find it interesting how teams in alleged "unimportant" cities like Tampa and Nashville seems to be doing not just a little better but significantly better in attendance than a team in a big important city like Chicago

wait, Chicago isn't in Canada? oh snap!

That's because there's other stuff to do in Chicago. Tampa and Nashville are heehaw cities.

Tampa has more entertainment options than 80% of other NHL markets; the beach being a huge #1.To call it a 'heehaw' city (whatever the hell that is supposed to mean in the first place) is downright laughable and just shows your lack of knowledge (or ignorance) to other parts of the country.

I'm sure I'm not the only person who remembers this: http://boards.sportslogos.net/index.php?sh...6881&st=20#

And if by "entertainment options" you mean "more strip clubs per capita than any other city," then you're absolutely right. Tampa has more titty bars than nearly any other city in the U.S. But I'm not sure what beach you're talking about. When I lived in Tampa, we either went to Clearwater or St. Pete for a beach. Neither of those cities are in Tampa. However, I didn't live in Tampa for very long so I could be mistaken.

Tampa, Clearwater and St. Pete are in the same metro area.

[Original6]

This is what I find funny about Hockey fans. They love their sport so much, which is great, but they are severely in denial. They expect hockey to get treated with respect and complain so much about everything. Just get over it, hockey clearly isn't a major sport outside of Canada and never will be, but still they try to blame the US for not "accepting" the game. They are living into the whole Canadian + Hockey stereo type and it's become so bad over generations that they take to heart anything that anyone has to say or do negative about the game.

It's kind of pathetic really, I mean Americans might love Baseball but even they will slash the game every once in a while, but in Canada... NO! YOU CAN'T SPEAK BAD ABOUT HOCKEY!

It's sad that this is the only sport we're noticed in. Even though there are plenty of Canadians that have enough talent to play all the other sports.

[CC97]

This is what I find funny about Hockey fans. They love their sport so much, which is great, but they are severely in denial. They expect hockey to get treated with respect and complain so much about everything. Just get over it, hockey clearly isn't a major sport outside of Canada and never will be, but still they try to blame the US for not "accepting" the game. They are living into the whole Canadian + Hockey stereo type and it's become so bad over generations that they take to heart anything that anyone has to say or do negative about the game.

It's kind of pathetic really, I mean Americans might love Baseball but even they will slash the game every once in a while, but in Canada... NO! YOU CAN'T SPEAK BAD ABOUT HOCKEY!

It's sad that this is the only sport we're noticed in. Even though there are plenty of Canadians that have enough talent to play all the other sports.

Does anyone know what this guy is talking about?

[IceCap]

This is what I find funny about Hockey fans. They love their sport so much, which is great, but they are severely in denial. They expect hockey to get treated with respect and complain so much about everything. Just get over it, hockey clearly isn't a major sport outside of Canada and never will be, but still they try to blame the US for not "accepting" the game. They are living into the whole Canadian + Hockey stereo type and it's become so bad over generations that they take to heart anything that anyone has to say or do negative about the game.

It's kind of pathetic really, I mean Americans might love Baseball but even they will slash the game every once in a while, but in Canada... NO! YOU CAN'T SPEAK BAD ABOUT HOCKEY!

It's sad that this is the only sport we're noticed in. Even though there are plenty of Canadians that have enough talent to play all the other sports.

Does anyone know what this guy is talking about?

I'm not sure, but I think he was cut from his pee-wee hockey team back in the day and he's never gotten over it.

[gojetsgo]

According to the latest figures, the Nashville Predators, being ranked 23rd in the NHL in attendance, have still drawn 87.3% to capacity for the season.

In comparision to another team in another sport, the Toronto Blue Jays were 18th in the MLB in total attendance, drawing 56.3% to capacity.

so why is everyone calling for the predators to move and nobody is even suggesting the blue jays should move?

and although this is two different sports leagues here with different venues and such, it is still the same issue. why is a team drawing 87.3% capacity considered unstable whereas a team that is drawing 56.3% capacity is considered stable?

I'm just saying......

There is a key part of that 87.3% capacity that you are missing. This number only takes into account tickets distributed and not paid attendance.

It is a fact that the Predators give away on average about 2,500 tickets per game. Yes - 2500 tickets. Why would a first place team need to give away 3000 tickets? I'll let you draw your own conclusions. Regardless, the bottom line is that the Predators are a great team on the ice and a horrible team off of it. I predict that, unless they win the cup, next year will be their last in Nashville.

[jkrdevil]

According to the latest figures, the Nashville Predators, being ranked 23rd in the NHL in attendance, have still drawn 87.3% to capacity for the season.

In comparision to another team in another sport, the Toronto Blue Jays were 18th in the MLB in total attendance, drawing 56.3% to capacity.

so why is everyone calling for the predators to move and nobody is even suggesting the blue jays should move?

and although this is two different sports leagues here with different venues and such, it is still the same issue. why is a team drawing 87.3% capacity considered unstable whereas a team that is drawing 56.3% capacity is considered stable?

I'm just saying......

There is a key part of that 87.3% capacity that you are missing. This number only takes into account tickets distributed and not paid attendance.

It is a fact that the Predators give away on average about 2,500 tickets per game. Yes - 2500 tickets. Why would a first place team need to give away 3000 tickets? I'll let you draw your own conclusions. Regardless, the bottom line is that the Predators are a great team on the ice and a horrible team off of it. I predict that, unless they win the cup, next year will be their last in Nashville.

All teams give tickets away. I would be willing to bet those tickets are going to sponsors and such and are not being given out at the grocery store.

Also, all sports use tickets distributed when talking about attendance.

[HedleyLamarr]

It is a fact that the Predators give away on average about 2,500 tickets per game. Yes - 2500 tickets.

Prove it.

[CC97]

All teams give tickets away. I would be willing to bet those tickets are going to sponsors and such and are not being given out at the grocery store.

Also, all sports use tickets distributed when talking about attendance.

I once thought that but the Jays have been saying "paid attendance" for the last year or so, perhaps baseball does not do this.