Taking it back to the U-N-I-VER-SI-TIES...

[tBBP]

Beautiful concept as always, but didn't the NCAA ban dark shoulders on road uniforms?

No. All they did was ban white shoulders or sleeves on home jerseys. This is odd because several teams used the NY Jets template, which had white sleeves on a dark jersey, for a few years after the law was passed because of BYU's "bib" uniform. In fact, here is the rule out of the NCAA handbook.

Contrasting Colors

ARTICLE 3. a. Players of opposing teams shall wear jerseys of contrasting

colors, and the visiting team shall wear white jerseys. White jerseys may

be worn by the home team when the teams have agreed before the season.

Players of a team shall wear jerseys of the same color and design.

b. A white jersey is one with only contrasting playing numbers, player?s

name, school name, NCAA Football logo, school insignia, conference

insignia, mascot insignia, game insignia, memorial insignia or the

American flag attached. An insignia must not exceed 16 square inches

in area (i.e., rectangle, square, parallelogram), including any additional

material (e.g., patch). Stripes may be placed on the sleeves. A border no

more than 1 inch wide around the collar and cuffs is permissible, as is a

maximum 4-inch stripe along the side seam (insert from the underarm to

pants top).

c. If a colored jersey contains white, it may appear only as a number,

border of a number, player?s name, school name, stripes on the sleeves, a

border no more than 1 inch wide around the collar and cuffs, a maximum

4-inch stripe along the side seam (insert from the underarm to pants top),

or as part of a legal insignia (Rule 1-4-3-.

Thanks for clearing that up. And now I'm glad I didn't go with the white-topped home jerseys.

(Okay...about the "Marion Barber" connection--and watch how many of your smack your foreheads after I explain this: Had I displayed the home version with white shoulders/yoke, couple that with the white helmet and pants--the exact reverse is shown in the ROAD version--and what team would the set most resemble? Marion Barber's current team, the Dallas Cowboys--or, at least, their throwback 3rds, anyway. make sense now? Hell...maybe I should come up with some "stumpers" to stick in the Sports In General forum...)

...And now, boys and girls--it's UPDATE TIME!

As can pretty much be deduced from C&C, the white shells--hell, the white period--don't seem to be hitting it up in here. Which is fine, you know, because, well...this IS C&C, by the way.

SO...I went back into my Illustrator file and started switching colors. I originally wanted to go with the maroon helmet, but, that's what they have now (the look that's too damn close to USC's), so then I tried out the gold helmet option, again--and realized just how much of a Sun Devil look-alike set i came up with. And for some reason I just can't get past duplicate looks (even though Oklahoma and Alabama probably couldn't be told apart from a distance...may as well add Arkansas and Indiana too, from a color standpoint...)

SO...since I can't seem to make up my damn mind, I'll let you all do it. Here's every version I've worked up using gold and maroon caps.

HOME

ROAD SET w/ GOLD HELMETS

ROAD SET w/ MAROON HELMETS

AND, as a bonus, here's an alternate set I worked up--one with the white-over-white look I liked so much previously, along with a set pretty much inspired by the sets that earned the Gophers their "golden" moniker--that is to say, gold over gold:

Okay guys...help me out here! (Maybe, if I can get this down, I can follow through on hitting up UM's athletic director and seeing just where/how far I can get with a redesign proposal...)

[VitaminD]

I'm gonna be straight with you. This one's not my favorite, and it's not up to the usual level of awesomeness I've come to expect and enjoy out of the Sarge in the Iron City. Part of that is a byproduct of how high you've set the standard for yourself, because almost everything else I've seen of yours has been off the charts phenomenal. This one's just not working for me.

To the point:

1. For a team nicknamed the Golden Gophers, I see an awful lot of white, some maroon, and precious little gold. Maroon/gold is a great color combo, and if done right can even nudge white out altogether (Southern Cal, and UM's stuff through last year). I just see too much white.

2. White helmets aren't working either. Especially when there are 2 better choices comprising the school colors.

3. I get trying to work the "M" in as part of the collar, but it triggered flashbacks of that awful year they had the double Ms on the chest (Apex One? Same year Iowa had the banana peels?). Bad karma.

4. Minnesota strikes me as far more conservative than these jerseys would have you think. The vibe just seems out of place for UM.

As always, I love the way you think. And I love how you have a strong rationale from nearly everything you put into your work. Your knowledge and dedication shows through clearly. This is just one of those where the parts don't add up to something that suits me. Just my nickel - keep the change or huck it back at my squash...

[tBBP]

I'm gonna be straight with you. This one's not my favorite, and it's not up to the usual level of awesomeness I've come to expect and enjoy out of the Sarge in the Iron City. Part of that is a byproduct of how high you've set the standard for yourself, because almost everything else I've seen of yours has been off the charts phenomenal. This one's just not working for me.

To the point:

1. For a team nicknamed the Golden Gophers, I see an awful lot of white, some maroon, and precious little gold. Maroon/gold is a great color combo, and if done right can even nudge white out altogether (Southern Cal, and UM's stuff through last year). I just see too much white.

2. White helmets aren't working either. Especially when there are 2 better choices comprising the school colors.

3. I get trying to work the "M" in as part of the collar, but it triggered flashbacks of that awful year they had the double Ms on the chest (Apex One? Same year Iowa had the banana peels?). Bad karma.

4. Minnesota strikes me as far more conservative than these jerseys would have you think. The vibe just seems out of place for UM.

As always, I love the way you think. And I love how you have a strong rationale from nearly everything you put into your work. Your knowledge and dedication shows through clearly. This is just one of those where the parts don't add up to something that suits me. Just my nickel - keep the change or huck it back at my squash...

Whoa..."Sarge In The Iron City"...that's a new one.

Just wondering...something tells me you wrapped up writing this before I got done posting the updates. however, items 3 and 4 could in your list can still apply.

And yeah...for some reason I get REAL overanalytical when i set out on these designs...maybe TOO overanalytical--but that's what Us Army can do to one's rationale. (You'd be surprised how many of us refer to ourselves as us army...inside joke. )

[Jamikel]

Beautiful concept as always, but didn't the NCAA ban dark shoulders on road uniforms?

No. All they did was ban white shoulders or sleeves on home jerseys. This is odd because several teams used the NY Jets template, which had white sleeves on a dark jersey, for a few years after the law was passed because of BYU's "bib" uniform. In fact, here is the rule out of the NCAA handbook.

I thought it was caused by BYU's uniforms, but it doesn't make sense that the rule would only affect home uniforms. The home version of BYU's bib unis were completely "dark royal blue", but the whites had blue shoulders. Unless there's an earlier version that I don't know about.

[lets_go_red]

I love the update...still hate the school, but I think it would be awesome if they wore something like this 10/10 (Gold Helmets + Golad Pants = Awesome) The all gold alternate = even better

[-(dp)-]

I agree with VitaminD about losing white completely in the home uniforms. When a dark jersey like a navy, maroon, or black one, is paired with single color numbers of yellow or gold, It usually works. Some of the best uniforms in the NCAA are this way (Michigan, USC, Minnesota last year, Army, among others I am sure.) I think it would look great if you used single stripes, losing all white on the helmet, pants and home jersey, and used the gold helmet and pants. I think that would give a more classic look, like most of the teams in the Big Ten.

[Epiphanic]

The updates are much better. I think that they keep with the "tradition" of Minnesota that VitaminD was alluding to earlier. I'm torn as well regarding which helmet is better. I'm leaning toward the maroon helmet for the simple fact that I think it works best with the all the possible color combos (essentially since the yoke is maroon in all jerseys).

VitaminD, I think you're right that Minnesota is more conservative than this. In fact, the Big Ten as a conference is a pretty conservative looking conference. But it looks like Minnesota could be bucking that trend at the behest of Coach Tim Brewster. So the question I ask is, which would you rather see Minnesota in. These gorgeous uniforms that Bucco has made or some Nike jersey/current jersey with side panels slapped on? In my opinion, if they're going to change go with something that has meaning and references the tradition and success of Gopher football.

Bucco, as I said earlier, I think the maroon helmets are the best. If you're going to go with one set to show them, I'd go with that one. However, if you do get an audience, I would also let them know (and possibly see) the other schemes. Have reasons to pick each one. White helmets for differentiation from USC/ASU, maroon helmets for tradition, etc. Good luck man, and I'm pullin' for ya.

[PackerBadger]

(1) Maroon helmets are best.

(2) I still like the white home pants/maroon road pants combo. If gold pants are necessary, leave them at home. (Having maroon road pants will help with the looks-too-much-like-USC issue.)

(3) And yes, I get the M reference ... which does not remind me of the twin Ms at all. This is much more subtle, and it's even the correct looking M (basically an upside-down W, as opposed to Michigan's M.)

(BTW: Is that maroon correct? It's always looked purplish to me ... but then again perhaps that's the Metrodome lights.)

(P.S. Does anyone know if the Minnesota State Patrol still wears maroon pants?)

[Brass]

Sweet stuff as always, bucco_B!

[sacker12]

Definitely the maroon helmets.

[tBBP]

Thanks everyone. Think Imma go home and really spread this out, rehas some fine lines and details, and push on with this planned proposal of mine to the U of M AD. Nah--really. For REAL!

(I'm thinking about putting one together for the Wyoming concept I did, too. Whatchy'all think?)

[Epiphanic]

(I'm thinking about putting one together for the Wyoming concept I did, too. Whatchy'all think?)

Hell Yeah!

[Joshawaggie]

I like the white helmet, I wish you would try it woth gold pants, that would be sweetness.

[PackerBadger]

Thanks everyone. Think Imma go home and really spread this out, rehas some fine lines and details, and push on with this planned proposal of mine to the U of M AD. Nah--really. For REAL!

(I'm thinking about putting one together for the Wyoming concept I did, too. Whatchy'all think?)

It would be a substantial improvement from what they have now.

As for this conservative* vs. not argument, remember that Minnesota's football tradition features mostly losing. So going away from tradition would be a good thing from the Gophers' perspective.

* Usually, the Big Ten is conservative, but not always -- see the Cam Cameron Indiana examples and the cream-colored road unis of '83, the Iowa wing things, the aforementioned big M Minnesota unis, Northwestern's journey through black, and the gold Purdue jerseys.

[tajmccall]

(BTW: Is that maroon correct? It's always looked purplish to me ... but then again perhaps that's the Metrodome lights.)

(P.S. Does anyone know if the Minnesota State Patrol still wears maroon pants?)

The Maroon is affected by the Dome lights. They always look a lot different away from the teflon top.

Regarding the State Troopers, indeed they do.