NFL Jaguars could be sold and moved

[ferrousoxide66]

Apparently, there aren't enough first-class places for said journalists to pad their expense accounts in Jacksonville, so they'd like nothing better than to see the franchise relocated to a more cosmopolitan municipality.

Why would this even matter? Detroit in the winter is right above Kabul in terms of preferred destinations. St. Louis? Not much better. Not sure why journalists would give a rat's posterior about Jacksonville as a "destination" of some sort.

I'll tell you why everyone's a bit suspicious of Jacksonville's longterm success as an NFL city: attendance woes, enormously large stadium, miniscule tv market, competition from nearby franchises, and grave concerns about the viability of said franchise ever since its expansion bid upset superior competition.

But, I hope Jacksonville makes it. Franchise shuffling is never good for any league, even one as strong as the NFL.

[rams80]

Keep the Jaguars in Jacksonville.

I hate how American sports teams move home whenever they feel like.

I'm not sure how sports fans are over in the US, but over here, your football club is your life.

Have a look through the obituary section of a newspaper and youll see many references to there favourite club.

But maybe US sports fans don't see there team as their life.

And maybe the owners don't see the members, supporters, the fans that pay each week to see them play and instead care only for the dollar.

How old are the Australian football teams? In terms of local roots, there are only 3 NBA teams that have stayed in place for 50+ years, 6 NHL teams, 9* NFL teams, and 14** MLB teams.

American sports teams are for the most part comparatively new to the standards of other sports. Additionally these are less neighborhood teams/organizations that advanced themselves, and more franchises of a corporate entity.

Of course...the USA also has cities that lack major league teams that could support them...as long as that phenomenon exists, it is likely franchises will move.

*-Counting Cleveland

**-This is the 50th season for Los Angeles and San Francisco

[Island_Style]

Weaver says it is all a lie.

?In light of news reports from last night, I must once again reiterate the fact that I am not selling the Jaguars"

Both sides are saying this is false.

A story like this just doesn't happen in the figment of some overeager sports scribe's mind.

As a former journalist, I can assure you of the fact that said scenario takes place far more often than sports scribes would care to admit. Combine a journalist's desire to justify his byline or column inches with the notion that sports journalism is inherently frivolous and, therefore, somehow not subject to the same level of source scrutiny as hard news reporting, and you have an environment in which a sports reporter will jump to conclusions based upon the flimsiest of so-called "leads".

Furthermore, I'm always a bit skeptical of any sports journalist's report of the impending sale and relocation of the Jacksonville Jaguars. If I had a nickel for every sports reporter, columnist or broadcast anchor who has bitched and moaned about a "backward" "cow-town" like Jacksonville being admitted into the ranks of NFL host cities... well, I'd be a WEALTHY man. The ink-stained wretches and broadcast pundits of sports have had it in for Jacksonville since the city was awarded an NFL expansion team. Apparently, there aren't enough first-class places for said journalists to pad their expense accounts in Jacksonville, so they'd like nothing better than to see the franchise relocated to a more cosmopolitan municipality. As a result, very few members of the august fraternity of sports journalists can be considered to be unbiased on this subject. Frankly, they're hoping that their doom-and-gloom pronouncements about Jacksonville's days being numbered as an NFL market are self-fulfilling prophecies.

Thank you. Very well said. that is what I have been saying for a long time.

[Island_Style]

Apparently, there aren't enough first-class places for said journalists to pad their expense accounts in Jacksonville, so they'd like nothing better than to see the franchise relocated to a more cosmopolitan municipality.

Why would this even matter? Detroit in the winter is right above Kabul in terms of preferred destinations. St. Louis? Not much better. Not sure why journalists would give a rat's posterior about Jacksonville as a "destination" of some sort.

I'll tell you why everyone's a bit suspicious of Jacksonville's longterm success as an NFL city: attendance woes, enormously large stadium, miniscule tv market, competition from nearby franchises, and grave concerns about the viability of said franchise ever since its expansion bid upset superior competition.

But, I hope Jacksonville makes it. Franchise shuffling is never good for any league, even one as strong as the NFL.

Those "attendance woes" are blown out of proportion. The Jags were 23rd last year beating out the likes of Chicago, Dallas and Pittsburgh. Funny, if the Jags had a stadium the size of Chicago's no one would mention attendance. Like I said, next year's games will be sold out. Less than 4,000 season tickets are left. How many teams around the league will be sold out before the season starts? A few will but a lot wont be. Jacksonville is an easy target to sports reporters because they just dont flat out like the city. A new article like this comes out every year from someone else who hasn't been to Jacksonville since their local team played here. It is getting really annoying.

Attandance figures

[ferrousoxide66]

Apparently, there aren't enough first-class places for said journalists to pad their expense accounts in Jacksonville, so they'd like nothing better than to see the franchise relocated to a more cosmopolitan municipality.

Why would this even matter? Detroit in the winter is right above Kabul in terms of preferred destinations. St. Louis? Not much better. Not sure why journalists would give a rat's posterior about Jacksonville as a "destination" of some sort.

I'll tell you why everyone's a bit suspicious of Jacksonville's longterm success as an NFL city: attendance woes, enormously large stadium, miniscule tv market, competition from nearby franchises, and grave concerns about the viability of said franchise ever since its expansion bid upset superior competition.

But, I hope Jacksonville makes it. Franchise shuffling is never good for any league, even one as strong as the NFL.

The Jags were 23rd last year beating out the likes of Chicago, Dallas and Pittsburgh.

Attandance figures

That is true, but the troubling stat is the 88.5% pct for attendance, worst in the NFL. The stadium is way too big .

[Island_Style]

Apparently, there aren't enough first-class places for said journalists to pad their expense accounts in Jacksonville, so they'd like nothing better than to see the franchise relocated to a more cosmopolitan municipality.

Why would this even matter? Detroit in the winter is right above Kabul in terms of preferred destinations. St. Louis? Not much better. Not sure why journalists would give a rat's posterior about Jacksonville as a "destination" of some sort.

I'll tell you why everyone's a bit suspicious of Jacksonville's longterm success as an NFL city: attendance woes, enormously large stadium, miniscule tv market, competition from nearby franchises, and grave concerns about the viability of said franchise ever since its expansion bid upset superior competition.

But, I hope Jacksonville makes it. Franchise shuffling is never good for any league, even one as strong as the NFL.

The Jags were 23rd last year beating out the likes of Chicago, Dallas and Pittsburgh.

Attandance figures

That is true, but the troubling stat is the 88.5% pct for attendance, worst in the NFL. The stadium is way too big .

Well duh the stadium is way to big. Fla/Ga game is the main reason why. The city really wanted to keep that game. Still, if Chicago and Dallas is getting by with less than Jacksonville is. At the same time I also question the 88.5% stat. The average they have down is 65,301. The Jags max capacity is 67,164. See how that doesn't add up. What, ESPN wrong about a fact? Sports reporters always get the facts strait! Now maybe I am wrong but less than 2,000 tickets unsold of 67,164. doesn't quit add up to only 88.5% full, does it? Am I wrong on this one?

This is what the Stadium holds. 88.5% is false.

[rams80]

Apparently, there aren't enough first-class places for said journalists to pad their expense accounts in Jacksonville, so they'd like nothing better than to see the franchise relocated to a more cosmopolitan municipality.

Why would this even matter? Detroit in the winter is right above Kabul in terms of preferred destinations. St. Louis? Not much better. Not sure why journalists would give a rat's posterior about Jacksonville as a "destination" of some sort.

I'll tell you why everyone's a bit suspicious of Jacksonville's longterm success as an NFL city: attendance woes, enormously large stadium, miniscule tv market, competition from nearby franchises, and grave concerns about the viability of said franchise ever since its expansion bid upset superior competition.

But, I hope Jacksonville makes it. Franchise shuffling is never good for any league, even one as strong as the NFL.

The Jags were 23rd last year beating out the likes of Chicago, Dallas and Pittsburgh.

Attandance figures

That is true, but the troubling stat is the 88.5% pct for attendance, worst in the NFL. The stadium is way too big .

Well duh the stadium is way to big. Fla/Ga game is the main reason why. The city really wanted to keep that game. Still, if Chicago and Dallas is getting by with less than Jacksonville is. At the same time I also question the 88.5% stat. The average they have down is 65,301. The Jags max capacity is 67,164. See how that doesn't add up. What, ESPN wrong about a fact? Sports reporters always get the facts strait! Now maybe I am wrong but less than 2,000 tickets unsold of 67,164. doesn't quit add up to only 88.5% full, does it? Am I wrong on this one?

This is what the Stadium holds. 88.5% is false.

Does the phrase "TV market size" mean anything to you? The Bears and the Cowboys can make up for having slightly smaller stadia with their rather large following on the television.

-----------------------------

BTW....96.5% capacity for the Rams last year? One thing to say to that.

USODA!!!!

[Island_Style]

Apparently, there aren't enough first-class places for said journalists to pad their expense accounts in Jacksonville, so they'd like nothing better than to see the franchise relocated to a more cosmopolitan municipality.

Why would this even matter? Detroit in the winter is right above Kabul in terms of preferred destinations. St. Louis? Not much better. Not sure why journalists would give a rat's posterior about Jacksonville as a "destination" of some sort.

I'll tell you why everyone's a bit suspicious of Jacksonville's longterm success as an NFL city: attendance woes, enormously large stadium, miniscule tv market, competition from nearby franchises, and grave concerns about the viability of said franchise ever since its expansion bid upset superior competition.

But, I hope Jacksonville makes it. Franchise shuffling is never good for any league, even one as strong as the NFL.

The Jags were 23rd last year beating out the likes of Chicago, Dallas and Pittsburgh.

Attandance figures

That is true, but the troubling stat is the 88.5% pct for attendance, worst in the NFL. The stadium is way too big .

Well duh the stadium is way to big. Fla/Ga game is the main reason why. The city really wanted to keep that game. Still, if Chicago and Dallas is getting by with less than Jacksonville is. At the same time I also question the 88.5% stat. The average they have down is 65,301. The Jags max capacity is 67,164. See how that doesn't add up. What, ESPN wrong about a fact? Sports reporters always get the facts strait! Now maybe I am wrong but less than 2,000 tickets unsold of 67,164. doesn't quit add up to only 88.5% full, does it? Am I wrong on this one?

This is what the Stadium holds. 88.5% is false.

Does the phrase "TV market size" mean anything to you? The Bears and the Cowboys can make up for having slightly smaller stadia with their rather large following on the television.

-----------------------------

BTW....96.5% capacity for the Rams last year? One thing to say to that.

USODA!!!!

Anime is weird.

Second, be that is it may the numbers are still misleading. If the Jags' stadium were their size, the outside media would have nothing to fuel the phantom NFL move. Every game would be sold out. Also, that 88.5% is still a flat out lie. Anyone want to beg to differ?

[B-Rich]

I also question the attendance figures-- are they tickets sold? Turnstile counts? What is the source? How are these figures calculated?

As an example, since their return after Katrina, the Saints for the last two years have had sold out all games on a season ticket basis. Seems like that should be 100%. But according to this ESPN, they are only at 95.9 percent. Something ain't right.

[jkrdevil]

The ESPN numbers are unofficial. They may have Jacksonville's capacity as 76,867 which is the general football capacity. I know at least earlier this year ESPN for the Devils had the capacity for their new arena wrong as the numbers calculated them still using the old arena's capacity of 19,040 instead of the new 17,625.

On top of that I believe unlike the other sports the NFL prints turnstile attendance in it's box scores instead of tickets distributed.

[Island_Style]

The ESPN numbers are official. They may have Jacksonville's capacity as 76,867 which is the general football capacity. I know at least earlier this year ESPN for the Devils had the capacity for their new arena wrong as the numbers calculated them still using the old arena's capacity of 19,040 instead of the new 17,625.

Ding Ding Ding! That is what it is. That 88.5% figure is because they count the covered seats as empty seats. That's too bad because even if the game is sold out and every single person in the world wanted to buy a ticket to the Jaguar game it wouldn't matter. Once the season starts the covered seats can not be uncovered no matter what. So the official Jaguar capacity is the 67,000 and not the 73,000.

BTW, see, they already addressed the big stadium issue.

[Island_Style]

One thing I would like to add. You know some beat writer in California is going to see that wrong attendance percentage figure. He is going to assume that 88.5% is true rather than the real truth that it is in the high 90's percentage. His research will stop there even though the figure is obviously wrong to the people in Jacksonville who knows the stadium's real capacity. The beat writer in California will fail to do any more real research because he thinks this source is true. The headline next day will be "Attendance in Jacksonville is Dismal, Perhaps Move Next Option"l. As you can see that really isnt the case. He just wanted to jump on something, you know, break it. You see how this happens all the time?

[ferrousoxide66]

Ha ha, we get it. You love your hometown team. No shame in that.

Still, tarping up your unsellable seats to bolster attendance %? Er, ok. The A's do that. And let's be frank, it's a band-aid solution to a bigger problem.

[Island_Style]

Still, tarping up your unsellable seats to bolster attendance %? Er, ok. The A's do that. And let's be frank, it's a band-aid solution to a bigger problem.

You are totally wrong about the band - aid solution to a bigger problem. 3rd biggest stadium in the smallest market, what else are they suppose to do? Even after the cover up, They have a bigger stadium than Chicago, Dallas, and Pittsburgh. All three markets are way bigger. So no, I do not buy anything you say in this matter. Again, Do I have to say every game will be sold out this year? That is 100%. Of course ESPN will say 90%.

[illwauk]

Apparently, there aren't enough first-class places for said journalists to pad their expense accounts in Jacksonville, so they'd like nothing better than to see the franchise relocated to a more cosmopolitan municipality.

Why would this even matter? Detroit in the winter is right above Kabul in terms of preferred destinations. St. Louis? Not much better. Not sure why journalists would give a rat's posterior about Jacksonville as a "destination" of some sort.

I'll tell you why everyone's a bit suspicious of Jacksonville's longterm success as an NFL city: attendance woes, enormously large stadium, miniscule tv market, competition from nearby franchises, and grave concerns about the viability of said franchise ever since its expansion bid upset superior competition.

But, I hope Jacksonville makes it. Franchise shuffling is never good for any league, even one as strong as the NFL.

Detroit is a pretty decent sized media market though. Made even bigger when you include the entire state of Michigan. On the other hand, Jacksonville is the smallest market aside from Green Bay and has to share Florida with two teams in bigger cities with more established fan-bases. So unfortunatley the self-importance of sportswriters (please don't call them "journalists").

EDIT: The end of the above paragraph should read "...is just enough to change "the Jags might be leaving" to "they are leaving."

On a personal note... I remember after the all-star game disaster at Miller Park, sportswriters were taking all kinds of "what kind of hick town only has 10 places to get a $20 martini?" type shots at Milwaukee. That, and the arrogant attitudes of sportswriters in general made me switch from a Journalism major to Sociology.

[Brian in Boston]

Apparently, there aren't enough first-class places for said journalists to pad their expense accounts in Jacksonville, so they'd like nothing better than to see the franchise relocated to a more cosmopolitan municipality.

Why would this even matter? Detroit in the winter is right above Kabul in terms of preferred destinations. St. Louis? Not much better. Not sure why journalists would give a rat's posterior about Jacksonville as a "destination" of some sort.

Don't shoot the messenger. I'm just telling you what the party-line is amongst the vast majority of sports journalists. I can count on one hand the number of sports reporters I came across during my career who didn't take every opportunity presented to them to dump all over Jacksonville. Further, 90% of them never mentioned market population, attendance woes, stadium capacity, television market size, etc. They simply lambasted Jacksonville as a market that they were "forced" to visit. Period.

... competition from nearby franchises

The Buccaneers are 230 miles (and 3 to 3 1/2 hours) away. The Dolphins are 333 miles (and 4 1/2 to 5 hours) away. The Falcons are 350 miles (and 5 to 5 1/2 hours) away. The notion that there are "nearby" NFL franchises that would easily accomodate Jacksonville-based fans wishing to attend live games is a fallacy. If that were the case, the NFL wouldn't have granted Jacksonville the franchise to begin with.

[BBTV]

Still, tarping up your unsellable seats to bolster attendance %? Er, ok. The A's do that. And let's be frank, it's a band-aid solution to a bigger problem.

You are totally wrong about the band - aid solution to a bigger problem. 3rd biggest stadium in the smallest market, what else are they suppose to do? Even after the cover up, They have a bigger stadium than Chicago, Dallas, and Pittsburgh. All three markets are way bigger. So no, I do not buy anything you say in this matter. Again, Do I have to say every game will be sold out this year? That is 100%. Of course ESPN will say 90%.

If your argument is that Pittsburgh is a much bigger market, then it's a pretty weak argument.

[Brian in Boston]

Does the phrase "TV market size" mean anything to you?

Jacksonville-Brunswick, FL-GA is the 49th-largest Nielsen Television Market in the country. Then again, New Orleans, LA is the 53rd-largest and Green Bay-Appleton, WI is the 70th-largest.

Just like NFL franchises in those television (and radio) markets, the Jaguars have to count on pulling in viewers (and listeners) regionally. So, just as Saints officials would point to the New Orleans TV/Radio market being augmented regionally by viewers/listeners in #94 Baton Rouge, LA and #160 Biloxi-Gulfport, MS... just as Packers officials would point to Green Bay-Appleton being bolstered by #34 Milwaukee and #85 Madison... Jaguars officials will tell you that the Jacksonville-Brunswick broadcast market is bolstered by significant portions of the #19 Orlando-Daytona Beach-Melbourne, #108 Tallahassee-Thomasville, FL-GA and #162 Gainesville markets.

Does the Jacksonville market face challenges playing host to a major-professional sports franchise? Sure. That said, many municipalities and/or metro areas in the United States do. Bottom line? The NFL's future in Jacksonville is not as dire as some people would make it out to be.

[dfwabel]

Still, tarping up your unsellable seats to bolster attendance %? Er, ok. The A's do that. And let's be frank, it's a band-aid solution to a bigger problem.

You are totally wrong about the band - aid solution to a bigger problem. 3rd biggest stadium in the smallest market, what else are they suppose to do? Even after the cover up, They have a bigger stadium than Chicago, Dallas, and Pittsburgh. All three markets are way bigger. So no, I do not buy anything you say in this matter. Again, Do I have to say every game will be sold out this year? That is 100%. Of course ESPN will say 90%.

Tarping seats is very weak, plus you have used Dallas in comparison meanwhile this is the final year in Texas Stadium. It a moot point as they are moving to a facility larger than the Gator Bowl (sorry, easier to type). Soldier Field could have been larger but it was decided to keep the existing facade. If the city expanded just for Florida/Georgia, then the city manager and council (or Duval County) should be fired or removed from office. That is so narrow minded, it basically sums up the area. Outside of CSX, is there any corporations there? Floridian's average income generally is not that high, combined with a bad economy and housing crisis makes it worse. The NFL wanted a one team town, but the town has not lived up to their end of the bargain. I just looked at the season ticket prices and they are still a bargain and well below the NFL average by 25%!

[Island_Style]

Still, tarping up your unsellable seats to bolster attendance %? Er, ok. The A's do that. And let's be frank, it's a band-aid solution to a bigger problem.

You are totally wrong about the band - aid solution to a bigger problem. 3rd biggest stadium in the smallest market, what else are they suppose to do? Even after the cover up, They have a bigger stadium than Chicago, Dallas, and Pittsburgh. All three markets are way bigger. So no, I do not buy anything you say in this matter. Again, Do I have to say every game will be sold out this year? That is 100%. Of course ESPN will say 90%.

If your argument is that Pittsburgh is a much bigger market, then it's a pretty weak argument.

The Steelers have one of the biggest fan bases in all of sports. Someone said earlier that Pittsburgh's market is double the size of Jacksonville's. They aren't as big as Dallas' or Chicago's but they aren't as small as Jacksonville's or Minnesota's. To call it weak is weak on your part.