Is It Time to Retire the Football Helmet?

[BlueSky]

WTF? What's your problem with the Army? Are you really so ignorant as to think the only people in the military just don't have other options?

Are you so naive as to think that military recruiters don't prey on people whose options are limited? There are demographic shifts going on there since Vietnam and it's silly to pretend it's not happening. Most people who don't have to serve in the military won't. That's fine. The people who choose to want to. I don't think I was wrong in drawing a parallel between the creepy southern families where you play football for Inordinately Important Small-Town High School because that's what your dad did and his dad did, and the creepy southern families where you join the Army because . . .

I can't believe you're comparing riding a bicycle to confirmed repetitive subconcussive head trauma.

So in other words, your perception of southern families and football is straight out of Friday Night Lights. Brilliant.

I'm NOT comparing riding a bicycle, I'm comparing bicycle accidents with no helmet to confirmed repetitive subconcussive head trauma. In 2008, 93 bicyclists 15 and under were killed and 13,000 injured, and 91% of the bicyclists killed in 2008 reportedly weren't wearing helmets. I started wearing one years ago when I read an article where emergency room doctors said half the people who died in bike accidents would have lived had they worn a helmet. It's common sense.

Let's see your numbers on repetitive subconcussive head trauma. (BTW, it's a lot easier to cut and paste that than to type it every time. )

[Gothamite]

Pro Football players have dementia rates eight times that of the general population. Let's not pretend that CTE isn't a serious problem.

Nobody's pretending anything. That's good data if it's accurate, and that's my point, let's base our actions on facts. You guys just sound a little kneejerk is all, and I guarantee some member of the indignant "my child will never play football crowd" is letting their kid ride a bike or skate without a helmet or not wear a seatbelt, both of which are gigantic risks.

So why don't you guys protest this horrific situation by refusing to watch any more football? Aren't you part of the problem, like people who go to dogfights?

Oh, please. So there's no room between "never question the authority" and "complete boycott?" Absurd on its face.

And while it's certainly possible that some people might have knee-jerk reactions to any given situation, that does not appear to be the case here. So let's set aside the straw men, shall we?

If you want to compare cycling and football, then by all means. My older son bikes, and I make him wear a helmet because helmets are demonstrated to save lives. Indications are that football helmets are making football less safe, not more. So where exactly lies the comparison?

[STL FANATIC]

Back on topic, before we strike football from American society, can we at least see some numbers on how many play the game with no ill effects whatsoever vs. those who suffer long-term injuries? Take a look at a few fatality traffic accidents and you'd probably think parents would never allow their little angels to drive. Well, driving is a lot more dangerous than football and just about every kid over 17 has a license.

Pro Football players have dementia rates eight times that of the general population. Let's not pretend that CTE isn't a serious problem.

I guarantee some member of the indignant "my child will never play football crowd" is letting their kid ride a bike or skate without a helmet or not wear a seatbelt, both of which are gigantic risks.

This makes me think you're not really understanding where we're coming from. Any type of contact sport or physical activity in general leaves a risk for a one-time catastrophic incident. That's an unfortunate reality, but most of the time you accept the risks and don't let a 1 in a bunch chance cause you to limit your (or your children's) life experience.

Our (or perhaps I should just speak for myself) concern with football has less to do with the type of play that happened in the Rutgers game (although it could be prevented by the same measures) and more with the cases of CTE that are caused by multiple and not always severe hits to the head. A player may never suffer a "major" injury in his career and still be diagnosed at age 40 or 50 with a serious medical condition because of playing football. And we're finding that just that is happening often.

A child who skateboards without a helmet for 20 years isn't at that risk. His risk is if he has a fluke occurrence and hits his head a single time.

Now, that said, my children will wear helmets when they bike or whatever else, because it's a simple precaution to eliminate that risk.

[Gothamite]

Thank you, STL. Well said.

[BlueSky]

Comparing cycling and football? No. My point was the hypocrisy inherent in withholding a child from one "dangerous" activity while allowing him/her to participate in numerous others without even taking the maximum precautions.

And BTW, hearing loss is way up in younger people. I assume your children will never be allowed to listen to iPods.

[The_Admiral]

But this isn't just "a potentially dangerous activity." It's become tantamount to cigarettes: football, as traditionally coached and played, destroys you. As the body of research grows and grows, you're going to see more and more high schools discontinue their football programs. They're going to decide that it's not in their best interests as schools to concuss their students, and more importantly it won't be worth insuring. Private schools that aren't in the business of churning out freaks of nature will be the first to go because they have the most to lose financially.

[The_Admiral]

High school football should be banned just for this:

Sweet Jesus.

[BBTV]

WTF? What's your problem with the Army? Are you really so ignorant as to think the only people in the military just don't have other options?

Are you so naive as to think that military recruiters don't prey on people whose options are limited? There are demographic shifts going on there since Vietnam and it's silly to pretend it's not happening. Most people who don't have to serve in the military won't. That's fine. The people who choose to want to. I don't think I was wrong in drawing a parallel between the creepy southern families where you play football for Inordinately Important Small-Town High School because that's what your dad did and his dad did, and the creepy southern families where you join the Army because . . .

I can't believe you're comparing riding a bicycle to confirmed repetitive subconcussive head trauma.

I grew up in a middle class suburban neighborhood in the shadows of a major east-coast city. I saw an army recruiter maybe once, maybe not at all - I don't remember. I'm sure there were some kids in my high school (and in the area in general) who joined the services, but it was a rarity and I'm sure the typical response to a decision like that would have been along the lines of "wtf?"

I went to college in a very rural town in western PA, a part of the state where there's no real industry (maybe a few mines and farms) and really not much going on. Many of the kids at my college were older, because they were in the military first. There was a recruiting center in the only mall in the area. These kids looked at the army as 1) just something that you're supposed to do after high school, 2) the only way they were going to get to go to college, or 3) my pa was in the army, his pa was in the army, his pa... etc. The culture couldn't be more different. While there are certainly exceptions, my guess would be that the typical person who enlists is from a lower class or rural area where jingoism reigns supreme, or a urban area where it's sold as "a way out".

You can name exceptions all day long, but my experiences have been right in line with what Admiral is saying. Though I may have refrained from using the word "creepy".

[BlueSky]

WTF? What's your problem with the Army? Are you really so ignorant as to think the only people in the military just don't have other options?

Are you so naive as to think that military recruiters don't prey on people whose options are limited? There are demographic shifts going on there since Vietnam and it's silly to pretend it's not happening. Most people who don't have to serve in the military won't. That's fine. The people who choose to want to. I don't think I was wrong in drawing a parallel between the creepy southern families where you play football for Inordinately Important Small-Town High School because that's what your dad did and his dad did, and the creepy southern families where you join the Army because . . .

I can't believe you're comparing riding a bicycle to confirmed repetitive subconcussive head trauma.

I grew up in a middle class suburban neighborhood in the shadows of a major east-coast city. I saw an army recruiter maybe once, maybe not at all - I don't remember. I'm sure there were some kids in my high school (and in the area in general) who joined the services, but it was a rarity and I'm sure the typical response to a decision like that would have been along the lines of "wtf?"

I went to college in a very rural town in western PA, a part of the state where there's no real industry (maybe a few mines and farms) and really not much going on. Many of the kids at my college were older, because they were in the military first. There was a recruiting center in the only mall in the area. These kids looked at the army as 1) just something that you're supposed to do after high school, 2) the only way they were going to get to go to college, or 3) my pa was in the army, his pa was in the army, his pa... etc. The culture couldn't be more different. While there are certainly exceptions, my guess would be that the typical person who enlists is from a lower class or rural area where jingoism reigns supreme, or a urban area where it's sold as "a way out".

You can name exceptions all day long, but my experiences have been right in line with what Admiral is saying. Though I may have refrained from using the word "creepy".

So neither of you actually has any military experience?

[BlueSky]

High school football should be banned just for this:

Sweet Jesus.

I wouldn't have blamed say long-suffering Saints play-by-play guy Jim Henderson for going off like that when Porter made his pick, but...oh wait, I forgot. He got it out of his system in the Saints' first playoff win in '01.

[BBTV]

I don't. Just going by what I saw and who I met in the communities I lived in. In the rural lower-income community, you couldn't walk by 10 people without 8 of them having military experience. I really don't think I know anyone from where I live now who is under 50 and has served.

[infrared41]

High school football should be banned just for this:

Sweet Jesus.

That is -ing hilarious. It is also about as pathetic as it gets. That a grown man can get that excited over a bunch of 17 year olds...well, it troubles me.

[DG_ThenNowForever]

Fun story:

My older brother scored an 850 on his SAT (long story, but yes, that's terrible). He couldn't go 20 minutes without a military recruiter calling the house. Seriously, we would get multiple calls from an Army recruiter every single day looking to set up a meeting.

Four years later, I scored in the 1200's, and never once got a call. I was, however, interested in ROTC as a way to pay for college. I actually sought out the ROTC recruiter, called, and scheduled an appointment. At that time, my family lived in a 60/40% black/white neighborhood (same neighborhood as my brother when he was in high school), and I'm sure the average income was pretty low.

Anyways, instead of an ROTC recruiter coming to my home, they sent an Army guy instead. I was disappointed, but I listened to his pitch. He asked me to take a test, and gave me an hour to do so. Four minutes later -- no joke -- I was finished, and I scored a 98 percent. The Army guy gave me the card for an ROTC recruiter, and promptly left.

So, yeah, that is my perception of the US Armed Services. Best to the people that join up, but there are clearly target demographics for enlistment.

[AJM]

Watched the safety video: http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/09000d5d81b80962/Player-safety

So basically...

http://deadspin.com/5670864/unnamed-viking-expresses-thoughts-on-new-nfl-safety-rules-via-white-board

[STL FANATIC]

Except, no. That's not what the video said at all. I knew that was going to be called out, but clearly the hit put on that punter was nothing like the hits they're calling out. NOTHING like it.

It's so simple. Hits to the head or by the head are illegal. Hits to the head or by the head on a defenseless player (and any player on the field can be qualified as defenseless in the right situation) are called up specifically in the rulebook for extra scrutiny.

There's no bias or favoritism at play there. But guess which guess defensive players try to blow up the most? The big money positions. The money has nothing to do with, it's just the way gameplay goes.

[AJM]

STL --> I agree...just posted the pic/link for humor purposes only...

The hit on the punter was clean, and even then someone still is gonna get injured...but thats the game.

I guess in general I just side with current and retired players that dont like the changes being made and publicly state that they knew/know what they are getting themselves into and accept the risks. They assumed the risk/possibility of injuries and long term effects (not to mention shortened life span in some cases) because they loved the game. This game has always been brutal and people have and will always get hurt playing it...deal with it. If you don't like it then don;t play or watch, leave it to those who understand the risks.

Having said that, I agree what the league is doing in monitoring tackling techniques that involve less fundamentals, but leave it at that. I won;t be able to watch the NFL if it gets any softer, especially with this hands to the QB helmet BS. I'll just watch more Hockey...these guys brawl and its part of the f-ing game...these guys have blades on their feet and even after a few guys have gotten seriously cut NO ONE is calling for them to change equipment to use rollerblades. C'mon.

Look into new advancements in helmets, call out/fine/suspend A-holes who are playing like Chuck Cecil did, and leave the rest alone.

[mania]

So neither of you actually has any military experience?

As somebody who did enlist out of high school, and has had siblings serve in the military (one is in boot camp right now), they're not far off the ball at all.

[rams80]

STL --> I agree...just posted the pic/link for humor purposes only...

The hit on the punter was clean, and even then someone still is gonna get injured...but thats the game.

I guess in general I just side with current and retired players that dont like the changes being made and publicly state that they knew/know what they are getting themselves into and accept the risks. They assumed the risk/possibility of injuries and long term effects (not to mention shortened life span in some cases) because they loved the game. This game has always been brutal and people have and will always get hurt playing it...deal with it. If you don't like it then don;t play or watch, leave it to those who understand the risks.

Having said that, I agree what the league is doing in monitoring tackling techniques that involve less fundamentals, but leave it at that. I won;t be able to watch the NFL if it gets any softer, especially with this hands to the QB helmet BS. I'll just watch more Hockey...these guys brawl and its part of the f-ing game...these guys have blades on their feet and even after a few guys have gotten seriously cut NO ONE is calling for them to change equipment to use rollerblades. C'mon.

Look into new advancements in helmets, call out/fine/suspend A-holes who are playing like Chuck Cecil did, and leave the rest alone.

Except you aren't now.

Here's an idea. If you lead with a helmet on any play-15 yard penalty. Second offense, auto-eject. People are going to charge their technique quickly.

[BBTV]

It doesn't matter if "they know what they're getting in to" or not. A civilized society doesn't sit around and watch people beat each other half to death or knock each other's heads (literally) around. It's a sad commentary on our culture if we're endorsing people flying head first into other people's heads. And those players may know what they're getting themselve's into, but do their young kids who are going to have an idiot brain-damaged dad have a say in the matter? My guess is not.

[Gothamite]

It doesn't matter if "they know what they're getting in to" or not. A civilized society doesn't sit around and watch people beat each other half to death or knock each other's heads (literally) around. It's a sad commentary on our culture if we're endorsing people flying head first into other people's heads. And those players may know what they're getting themselve's into, but do their young kids who are going to have an idiot brain-damaged dad have a say in the matter? My guess is not.

Given that we are only now just beginning to understand CTE, I don't see how any of the current players can know what they've gotten themselves into.