BALLLLLLIN'!

[ESTONES6]

Now the reasoning behind this is not very good. 'I only want whites in my league because they don't show off and they are not thugs' That is pretty much the message I got from that.

However, I think there would be nothing wrong with white American males doing something like this as long as there are other clubs exclusive to only other races. I think it's kinda funny that they are talking about doing this sort of thing in Atlanta and Augusta. In those areas, white American males really are a minority.

As much as I would love for people to look past color as a basis for doing things, we are sadly not there yet. I never have and never will agree with the double standard that all other groups can have organizations and clubs that excludes all other races. In the meantime, white males can't gather together in some places without the assumption that it's a Klan meeting. There are some things that some people need to understand:

1. African Americans, Hispanics, and Asians are no longer a 'minority' I grew up in Georgia, and Caucasians are the minority in many places.

2. Racial discrimination is out in plain view every day in the way of 'Insert race here Only' clubs, societies, scholarships, and fraternities. Some young African Americans are being taught that they will get slighted if they are forced to compete with whites for anything. Meanwhile, some whites are taught that if they are competing for a job with an African American, they will get slighted to fulfill a quota or requirement. This needs to stop, and the best way I think it can is to get rid of the 'race only' clubs.

3. Some African Americans are also taught that getting an education, working hard and avoiding trouble is 'acting white'. That is just plain stupidity.

4. Some Caucasians take the whole race issue way to far in the other direction. They try so hard to prove to the World that they are not racist, they will actually wrong their own race in order to get the message across. There is such a thing as trying too hard and I think whites are in that category sometimes. It's like they are trying to apologize for something they didn't even do. Now some African Americans are brought up to believe that they should get all they can from the 'white man' because the 'white man' took so much from them. And some whites are brought up to believe that they owe an entire race for something they themselves never did. The bottom line is, I'm 27 years old and I have never in my life owned a slave, and I have never met a black man that was a slave. the 1860's are over!

I always get a little riled up when the topic of race comes up because I can't believe people can still be so ignorant and so sensitive about it in 2010. I'm Caucasian. My best friend is African American and my wife is Mexican. Now that doesn't make me an expert on the subject but I feel that I really can look at it from both sides where others may not. I'm not a card carrying Nazi, nor am I sympathetic to the Sharptons and Jacksons of the World. Thanks for reading!

see... agree and disagree with you on some points. the first point i highlighted, i have had experience with directly. I am from Cleveland (Obviously) and my buddy from school, who is black, contacted me when he was in the CLE visiting family. It was nothing more than watching a Brownies game. His cousins, who are also black, accused my buddy of acting white. When my friend asked them why... they responded: "look at what you wearing... you even talk white." Now, i think that is awful. especially from family.

as for your idea of having separate leagues for whites only, blacks only, asian only. I disagree with that 100%. That seems like a repeat of the 50s and 60s and the Jim Crowe laws. Separate but equal i think is a horrible idea. I think racism is a thing that shouldn't be "attacked" but needs to be ended on people's own time. you can't force people to NOT be racist. it is something that people just need to learn by themselves, on their own time.

i think one of the problems we run in to as a society is that we push TOO much to end racism, and by doing that, we actually inflate it.

i too get really upset with this issue... because like i said, i have been on the unfair end of affirmative action.

[Saintsfan]

i wish this would happen... but it won't. even those the league is not racist, it will be pinned as being racist. Even though a league for only black players would be promoted and and encouraged, but because it's white players, the government and NAACP won't let it happen.

i don't think the Basketball would be as entertaining... but i would just want this to happen on principle.

It will be pinned as racist because it is racist.

"I don't hate anyone of color. But people of white, American-born citizens are in the minority now.

For a start 'Moose' has his facts wrong

first off... the frat parties. you must be a little bit out of touch with college. Frats let anyone in, as long as they have $2-5 (what ever the door fee is)... so there goes that argument. as for the potential of being a "white only" frat. At my school, they don't allow it. They do, however, allow black only frats. that defines racism. Inclusion or Exclusion determined only by the race of the applicant. racism. Let me just re-emphasize that this is at my college ONLY. it may not be true at others.

Now. The white only league... i dont think THAT is the racist part. the racist part was when he said "Fundamental Basketball" and "sick of seeing street ball." That is clearly racist. Players like Pistol Pete and Larry Legend immediately come to mind to disprove the street ball argument. As for his fundamental argument... also can be disproved by players like Tim Duncan and Kobe Bryant.

i guess i should have clarified. Based on my personal experience... i understand the need for affirmative action and why it has to be enforced because there are racist people in the world. I have had a close friend benefit from affirmative action. a position he received, as he should have, but was initially denied. But in the same hand, i personally have been on the other end of affirmative action. Me, being qualified for a position, but losing out to a lesser applicant, based on race.

That being said...i was defending the idea of the opportunity to have a group for whites only. would i want to be part of that group? no. But its the idea that in society we can HAVE black only, minority only groups or associations... but the idea of having white only groups is taboo in society.

PS: Jay Mariotti just used his "Face Time" on Around the Horn to talk about this.

But the NBA isn't a 'blacks only' society. If it were, then you might have a point.

If its the style of basketball that troubles anyone, then it doesn't need to be a racially segregated league, you just need to hire coaches and players who agree to play a particular type of game, and set up the rules to encourage it. But thats not what this is. Its a league set up in a part of the country where racism, to an extent, still exists, to play exactly to that racism.

[ESTONES6]

The "frat party" post was largely facetious, Estonia, which was why I didn't bother capitalizing and punctuating it. Kind of a thing I do. Nevertheless, it is worth noting that excessive drinking and objectification of women is pretty much what your hypothetical College Whites club would have to consist of.

i hope that was sarcasm as well. and for the record: i hate most frats too.

[ESTONES6]

i wish this would happen... but it won't. even those the league is not racist, it will be pinned as being racist. Even though a league for only black players would be promoted and and encouraged, but because it's white players, the government and NAACP won't let it happen.

i don't think the Basketball would be as entertaining... but i would just want this to happen on principle.

It will be pinned as racist because it is racist.

"I don't hate anyone of color. But people of white, American-born citizens are in the minority now.

For a start 'Moose' has his facts wrong

first off... the frat parties. you must be a little bit out of touch with college. Frats let anyone in, as long as they have $2-5 (what ever the door fee is)... so there goes that argument. as for the potential of being a "white only" frat. At my school, they don't allow it. They do, however, allow black only frats. that defines racism. Inclusion or Exclusion determined only by the race of the applicant. racism. Let me just re-emphasize that this is at my college ONLY. it may not be true at others.

Now. The white only league... i dont think THAT is the racist part. the racist part was when he said "Fundamental Basketball" and "sick of seeing street ball." That is clearly racist. Players like Pistol Pete and Larry Legend immediately come to mind to disprove the street ball argument. As for his fundamental argument... also can be disproved by players like Tim Duncan and Kobe Bryant.

i guess i should have clarified. Based on my personal experience... i understand the need for affirmative action and why it has to be enforced because there are racist people in the world. I have had a close friend benefit from affirmative action. a position he received, as he should have, but was initially denied. But in the same hand, i personally have been on the other end of affirmative action. Me, being qualified for a position, but losing out to a lesser applicant, based on race.

That being said...i was defending the idea of the opportunity to have a group for whites only. would i want to be part of that group? no. But its the idea that in society we can HAVE black only, minority only groups or associations... but the idea of having white only groups is taboo in society.

PS: Jay Mariotti just used his "Face Time" on Around the Horn to talk about this.

But the NBA isn't a 'blacks only' society. If it were, then you might have a point.

If its the style of basketball that troubles anyone, then it doesn't need to be a racially segregated league, you just need to hire coaches and players who agree to play a particular type of game, and set up the rules to encourage it. But thats not what this is. Its a league set up in a part of the country where racism, to an extent, still exists, to play exactly to that racism.

right. i wasn't trying to say the NBA is blacks only. I was more referring to the idea of black only clubs, organizations, and scholarships and their abundance and prominence (they are well know), as compared to A.) all white clubs not being permitted or B.) all white scholarships exist, but are so rare, and not many people know about them.

[Sodboy13]

The "frat party" post was largely facetious, Estonia, which was why I didn't bother capitalizing and punctuating it. Kind of a thing I do. Nevertheless, it is worth noting that excessive drinking and objectification of women is pretty much what your hypothetical College Whites club would have to consist of.

You forgot the latent homosexuality.

Bro.

[The_Admiral]

No, I repressed it.

[JayJaxon]

The best way to express not liking the brand of basketball that is currently being played is by simply not watching. Basketball has not been exciting for me in years, and I don't watch. I'm not going to complain about the way the game is being played, but I'm not interested in it so I'm just not watching it and maybe the guy has good intentions by wanting to put a different brand of basketball out there. But the way he went about it is totally wrong in my mind.

ESTONES6, maybe that part you talked about came out wrong. But you are right. As much as I would like for some people to see it my way, I can't force someone to not be racist. For some people, there is still some sort of war going on and some sort of struggle to overcome. I honestly feel that our generation is very important in changing the way some people feel about the subject. In the next 10-15 years, the children of the 90's are going to be leading this country. I hope my generation does a better job to bring a real equality to this country than there is now.

[The_Admiral]

I watched a college basketball game the other evening and I was bored and annoyed out of my mind. So much noise. I just wanted to watch basketball.

[twi]

I watched a college basketball game the other evening and I was bored and annoyed out of my mind. So much noise. I just wanted to watch basketball.

While I can't tell if you're being serious or not (honestly, it's hard with you sometimes) I agree. High level basketball has become Travelling and Dunking - The Game. Watch ESPN highlights, it's all the same highlight the players are just different. A guy at work is always asking me why I don't like basketball. I can truthfully say that I do, it's a fun game to play and watch (minus the timeouts at the end), I just can't get into the NBA style of the game.

As for the topic at hand, it's shameful really. Any group that excludes, or strictly includes, based on race is doing themselves a disservice. If everything I was involved in was set apart for people just like me it would get boring real quick. I know too many people that are too different to think race has a bearing on who someone truly is.

[HedleyLamarr]

And in college, there are numerous African American only, Asian American Only, or Spanish American only clubs, but no where can you find a Caucasian American only.

frat parties

Country clubs....

[The_Admiral]

Um, I was saying why I prefer the NBA. The quality of the college game is markedly inferior, but they mask the inferiority of the game with commotion, histrionics, and hyperbole the way gross people mask their body odor with Axe. Bands are playing, kids are yelling (slapping the floor if it's a Duke game. blugh), announcers are hysterically proclaiming that every player is a great prospect and an even greater human being, and after about fifteen minutes I find myself feeling like people are throwing one big soggy wool blanket after another on my back. These players are great. These kids are great. This program is great. It's too damn much. Everything's not great! I can see that! Most of these guys suck! That's why they're not getting paid! NBA games are circuses in person, yeah, but well-produced NBA telecasts--especially TNT's--give you quality basketball with salient analysis, and in the case of Inside the NBA, the funniest and most honest studio analysis you'll get in sportscasting.

Actually, this hair-splitting over NBA vis-a-vis is rather on topic, given that this league claims to be appealing to people who have this strange "fundamentals" fetish. Getting up in arms over traveling is one of things I'll never ever get. It's tantamount to dismissing the NFL out of hand because there's holding on every play. Furthermore, when pro teams do succeed by emphasizing the fundamentals and teamwork that the silent majority so yearns for, like the Spurs did with Tim Duncan and the Pistons did with Chauncey Billups, the same people just complain that they're boring and obnoxious. What's a league to do?

[Don]

Would they allow in a guy like Mike Bibby or Chris Andersen who play a "street ball" style of ball just cause theyre white or is this (as someone above said) just like Duke: The League?

[FiddySicks]

The "frat party" post was largely facetious, Estonia, which was why I didn't bother capitalizing and punctuating it. Kind of a thing I do. Nevertheless, it is worth noting that excessive drinking and objectification of women is pretty much what your hypothetical College Whites club would have to consist of.

There. That's really the best way I can explain it.

[The_Admiral]

I said "Duke: The League."

Mike Bibby's dad is black, so he's automatically banned from the lunch counter league. I guess you could have Birdman by the barrelful, though.

If Bucfan is positing that middle-class mainstream whites approach women and alcohol the same way that everyone else does, he's living in another world.

[NJTank]

I think this league is a great idea, and they should have the crowd be all black, so they can laugh their asses off.

[Lee.]

I think this league is a great idea, and they should have the crowd be all black, so they can laugh their asses off.

That racket you heard in the last couple of hours was Tyler Perry writing, filming, editing and releasing this scenario as a new-release DVD entitled "Tyler Perry's House of Hoops," now available at Blockbuster.

[illwauk]

I can't believe it's 2010 and people still say "Black people have [insert groub, club, network, etc. here], but if white people had it, it'd be racist!" Not only is that completely ridiculous, but it's not true. A quick google search pulled up at least a dozen Irish-American organizations, scholarships and just about any equivalent to whatever black people have that one can think of that are available to me. In fact, the Shamrock Club of Milwaukee doesn't have a single black member and no one (at least to my knowledge) has called them racist. And this is a city where acts of racial exclusion tend to make national headlines.

Whites-only organizations don't exist because the only things that tie white people together culturally (that aren't exclusionary) are completely superficial. What the hell would you do at a "white club" anyway... look at Abercrombie & Fitch catalogs? Eat Miracle Whip? Listen to Toby Keith?

Anyway, I'll be shocked if this league sees a single minute of actual game-time. Corporate sponsors aren't gonna touch this league with a 10-mile pole and no player who doesn't want to slam his career into a cell is gonna want to be affiliated with it. Besides, the "we play fundamental ball" party-line has worked out so well for the WNBA, hasn't it?

[Don]

The Ivy League kids need this league to have a future in b-ball, thats what this is all about.

[The_Admiral]

I want to say that Bobby Hull : WHA :: Tyler Hansbrough : AABA, but where the analogy hits a snag is that the biggest AABA town may not have two intersecting roads to hold the press conference at.

[infrared41]

Now, i know i proly look like some crazy racist... which is far from the case... but it is one thing that really gets under my skin have to grab and claw through highschool and college.

No, you look like some crazy racist that can't spell or write.

Not for nothing but when you're in a hole the first thing you need to do is stop digging.