Bills confirm new uniform for 2011

[ARTnSocal]

Right you are ... although I never noticed just how dark the blue got until 1988, when they also switched the face-masks to dark blue and dropped the yellow one along with the yellow pants. I couldn't believe they went to striped pants and dropped the lightning bolt.

Spanos' Greek heritage justification was weak to .... the blue on the Greece flag is not dark blue.

Although I love the '63 power blues the best, the royal blue with yellow pants and mask during the early 80s where classic too.

[John in KY]

I remember that chipped facemask that Hall of Famer Ken Anderson* wore, and it drove me crazy at the time. And Anderson wasn't the only Bengal from that era to sport the painted/chipped two-bar mask. Here's a more-recent photo of Hall of Famer* Ken Riley, presumably with his game-used helmet. Is it possible that the two-bar mask was no longer manufactured when the Bengals changed to black masks in 1980 (stripes came in '81)?

Charlie Joiner looked to have a yellow facemask that was not painted. However, he was very old-school and didn't like changing his helmet - he reportedly used the same one he received back in 1976 for many, many years. Maybe his facemask was a holdover and by the time 1980 rolled around they weren't making colored two-bar QB facemasks anymore?

Remembering back to the 70s and early 80s I seem to recall the plastic face masks being available in at least yellow, white, blue and black - I remember several different Steelers kickers wearing what appeared to be molded black 1-bars. The Bengals are notorious for being one of the cheapest franchises in the NFL; I think they were just too damn cheap to buy black plastic 1-bar and 2-bar masks since they likely had a bunch of them in their equipment "stock" and just spray painted them black at the beginning of training camp.

I think that the plastic 1-bar and 2-bars were outlawed by about 1985 for all players except kickers (of course players already in the league were allowed to keep wearing them) so they should have begun to be available in multiple colors circa 1981. I could be thinking of suspension helmets but I believe they were both outlawed about the same time.

[BlueSky]

Right you are ... although I never noticed just how dark the blue got until 1988, when they also switched the face-masks to dark blue and dropped the yellow one along with the yellow pants. I couldn't believe they went to striped pants and dropped the lightning bolt.

Spanos' Greek heritage justification was weak to .... the blue on the Greece flag is not dark blue.

Although I love the '63 power blues the best, the royal blue with yellow pants and mask during the early 80s where classic too.

Yeah, except the '63 set wasn't powder blue, it was Pacific Blue. Don't feel bad though, it's a common error. The whole world seems to think they wore powder blue back then but it didn't come into their set until 1968.

[TruColor]

Right you are ... although I never noticed just how dark the blue got until 1988, when they also switched the face-masks to dark blue and dropped the yellow one along with the yellow pants. I couldn't believe they went to striped pants and dropped the lightning bolt.

Spanos' Greek heritage justification was weak to .... the blue on the Greece flag is not dark blue.

Although I love the '63 power blues the best, the royal blue with yellow pants and mask during the early 80s where classic too.

Yeah, except the '63 set wasn't powder blue, it was Pacific Blue. Don't feel bad though, it's a common error. The whole world seems to think they wore powder blue back then but it didn't come into their set until 1968.

And actually, I believe it was called Collegiate Blue from 1961 through 1966 and then from 1968 through 1973:

I haven't seen any evidence that it was ever called Pacific Blue...(but I've been wrong before)

[Buffalo]

WOW! this Buffalo Bills thread has been completely HIJACKED!!!

[ARTnSocal]

Clinton Hart (#42), Shaun Phillips (#95), and Quentin Jammer (#23) of the San Diego Chargers sport their 1963 AFL Championship season uniform. The teammates react after Jammer intercepted a pass in the first quarter against the Oakland Raiders on Sep. 14, 2009

*During the 2009 AFL-50 anniversary season these were ruled as their 1963 version by the SD Chargers, so that's official.

On the following website, it's not an official template, but the blue does look somewhat different, lighter in 1968, but it is taken from is an unofficial website. It never mentions 'Pacific' Blue.

cHristop's San Diego Chargers Uniform History (through 2004)

[Gothamite]

True, all the throwbacks are the lighter blue. But that doesn't mean the originals were.

Then again, I've never seen an actual extant specimen. And knowing what poor evidence color photos from the period are, I'm also not convinced that "Pacific Blue" or "Collegiate Blue" or whatever is actually distinguishable from the light blue throwbacks.

[ARTnSocal]

Okay ... back to the BUFFALO BILLS

I can assure everyone that these ARE our 1965 AFL Championship away uniforms

Except one noticeable glitch. In 1965 the BILLS wore their jersey numbers on the sleeves, above the stripes, not on the shoulders. To maintain the 1965 sleeve-striping and the way players wear their sleeves extra-short, they numbers were moved to the shoulders for AFL-50. The sox striping also looks different in the 2009 throwbacks.

[vmd9]

WOW! this Buffalo Bills thread has been completely HIJACKED!!!

I know! I wanted to see picks of the new uniforms, but instead see tons of chargers pictures??? are the Bills going to add lightning bolts to their jerseys next year?? are they adding yellow to the color scheme? haha well this will be interesting

[larrypep]

Sorry for the Chargers hijack.

Back to talking about the Bills.

Looking at the picture above I notice they put Jim Kelly front and center and also prominently feature Bruce Smith. I know he's a murderer and all, but I still think of OJ Simpson when I think of the all-time greatest Buffalo Bill.

[FGWB]

Looking at the picture above I notice they put Jim Kelly front and center and also prominently feature Bruce Smith. I know he's a murderer and all, but I still think of OJ Simpson when I think of the all-time greatest Buffalo Bill.

ACCUSED murderer.

Convicted thief.

[McCall]

Looking at the picture above I notice they put Jim Kelly front and center and also prominently feature Bruce Smith. I know he's a murderer and all, but I still think of OJ Simpson when I think of the all-time greatest Buffalo Bill.

ACCUSED Wrongfully acquitted murderer.

Convicted thief.

[ARTnSocal]

No matter what OJ's done long after his playing days, one cannot take away the fact that he was the greatest player to ever wear a BILLS jersey, and the 2nd best running back in the history of the NFL, after Jim Brown.

I never saw Jim Brown, but too many of the older generation BILLS fans told me that as great as OJ was, Jim Brown was even better.

2003 yards in a 14-game season for OJ ...

I've seen Emmitt, Payton, and Barry, but OJ was better then all 3 of 'em.

[John in KY]

Okay ... back to the BUFFALO BILLS

I can assure everyone that these ARE our 1965 AFL Championship away uniforms

Except one noticeable glitch. In 1965 the BILLS wore their jersey numbers on the sleeves, above the stripes, not on the shoulders. To maintain the 1965 sleeve-striping and the way players wear their sleeves extra-short, they numbers were moved to the shoulders for AFL-50. The sox striping also looks different in the 2009 throwbacks.

True about the numbers being on the sleeves; that ship has sailed in this era of virtually no sleeve space. However, that stripe pattern on the throwbacks is a hack job; they did not have 2 solid red strips and 2 solid blue stripes. The real Bills road jersey from this era was a mirror image of the blue jersey - all the stripes were blue and all the stripes had that ultra thin red outline called "feathering". Due to the feathering sometimes the thinner stripes would show up red, sometimes blue, but they were definitely blue. Here are a couple of Getty Images shots from the same November 25, 1965 Bills/Chargers game that show what I mean. The small stripes look red in this shot:

However, they look blue in this shot:

Those were the only color shots that show the Bills I could find from '65. The small stripes are more clearly blue in this shot from December 1966:

[ARTnSocal]

True about the numbers being on the sleeves; that ship has sailed in this era of virtually no sleeve space. However, that stripe pattern on the throwbacks is a hack job; they did not have 2 solid red strips and 2 solid blue stripes. The real Bills road jersey from this era was a mirror image of the blue jersey - all the stripes were blue and all the stripes had that ultra thin red outline called "feathering". Due to the feathering sometimes the thinner stripes would show up red, sometimes blue, but they were definitely blue. Here are a couple of Getty Images shots from the same November 25, 1965 Bills/Chargers game that show what I mean. The small stripes look red in this shot:

However, they look blue in this shot:

Those were the only color shots that show the Bills I could find from '65. The small stripes are more clearly blue in this shot from December 1966:

Your images didn't appear ... but I do know what you mean

[Cujo]

WOW! this Buffalo Bills thread has been completely HIJACKED!!!

And to my surprise, it wasn't hijacked by Cleveland Browns fans or that one Saints guy, who are the usual culprits.

[BlueSky]

Clinton Hart (#42), Shaun Phillips (#95), and Quentin Jammer (#23) of the San Diego Chargers sport their 1963 AFL Championship season uniform. The teammates react after Jammer intercepted a pass in the first quarter against the Oakland Raiders on Sep. 14, 2009

*During the 2009 AFL-50 anniversary season these were ruled as their 1963 version by the SD Chargers, so that's official.

On the following website, it's not an official template, but the blue does look somewhat different, lighter in 1968, but it is taken from is an unofficial website. It never mentions 'Pacific' Blue.

cHristop's San Diego Chargers Uniform History (through 2004)

Hey, nobody was more mystified than me when they came out with AFL 50th Anniversary throwbacks in powder blue and claimed they were the '63 set, what with the fact their own website says they didn't wear powder blue till 1968.

What appear to be the same illustrations are on their official site and yeah, you might say the original blue is a little darker. If Colorwerx says it's collegiate blue, fine, I've seen references to Pacific Blue but whatever the name is, it's darker. In these, the powder blue '68 set even looks darker than what we think of as powder blue (your throwback pic above).

Here are a couple of '63 pics (they only wore the All-American City "forehead" decal that season). This suggests the actual blue was even darker than the website illustrations. How dark exactly? Before Gothamite does, I'll point out that colors can look different over time or due to variations in lighting and/or production values so all this pic tells us is that it was a darker blue.

But in this pic, we have an important reference - the Patriot player, whose uni colors look accurate enough to make it a reasonable conclusion that the Chargers' '63 blue, by whatever name, was close to the pics above and much darker than powder blue.

Apologies to Buffalo posters, for whatever stupid reason the powder blue mystique is a hot button with me.

[ARTnSocal]

Hey, nobody was more mystified than me when they came out with AFL 50th Anniversary throwbacks in powder blue and claimed they were the '63 set, what with the fact their own website says they didn't wear powder blue till 1968.

What appear to be the same illustrations are on their official site and yeah, you might say the original blue is a little darker. If Colorwerx says it's collegiate blue, fine, I've seen references to Pacific Blue but whatever the name is, it's darker. In these, the powder blue '68 set even looks darker than what we think of as powder blue (your throwback pic above).

Here are a couple of '63 pics (they only wore the All-American City "forehead" decal that season). This suggests the actual blue was even darker than the website illustrations. How dark exactly? Before Gothamite does, I'll point out that colors can look different over time or due to variations in lighting and/or production values so all this pic tells us is that it was a darker blue.

But in this pic, we have an important reference - the Patriot player, whose uni colors look accurate enough to make it a reasonable conclusion that the Chargers' '63 blue, by whatever name, was close to the pics above and much darker than powder blue.

Apologies to Buffalo posters, for whatever stupid reason the powder blue mystique is a hot button with me.

Hey, that's Tobin Rote. I've read about him, he was quality and one of the best early AFL QBs. He was getting up their in years in '63, was their QB right before Hadl.

Anyway, take a look at the shield on the front of Rote's helmet. That logo contains the wording 'ALL-AMERICA CITY' and 'SAN DIEGO' ... It was worn by some players but not all during games in '63 and '64. Imagine that, some with that logo on their helmet and some without it in the same game. Ron Mix was one of his lineman yet didn't have one on his helmet.

They didn't have all these uniform rules of the current day, and someone did make the point prior that cameras didn't exactly give the most accurate color in those days, so who knows. Maybe they wore 2 different shades of light to a more medium-light blue that season.

AFL color photos are so precious, another thing that made that 5-part Showtime series with all that color video footage so very special.

Bottom-line ... The CHARGERS had the best uniforms in the AFL, and many believe in the history of both leagues. Their new power-blue alternate should not have been tweaked, you don't mess with near-perfection. I'll always remember how excited Chris Berman was in 1994 during NFL-75 when he knew that SD was gonna be breaking out the old powder-blues .

and no apologies needed ... SD is a very important part of BILLS history. We apologize that they were never given the opportunity to blow off that cannon of theirs in the '65 championship game at Balboa.

Lets just call it even ...

[slats7]

et cetera

[TruColor]

I'll write-up a new entry for my blog this weekend...and take this discussion outside of this thread.

Yes, the Blue was darker in 1963, no it wasn't called Pacific Blue, and no - the more recent throwback color wasn't the same as the '60s-'70s versions.