Anaheim Kings?

[McCall]

Sadly, that was the case. Though I think the Saints staying (weren't there relocation talks concerning them before Katrina?) would have softened the blow had the Hornets left. I mean does anyone in NOLA even care about the Hornets?

Yes.

NOLA is currently 24th in the league in home game attendance, and 17th in percentage of arena filled. There are quite a few other teams out there who are doing worse fan support-wise, teams who have not had to deal with Katrina, a huge oil spill, and worst of all, a sleazy idiot owner who was ALWAYS in over his head, strapped the team with unmanageable debt, and who almost CONSTANTLY played his franchise in a city vs. city game.

The New Orleans Hornets will never be a Dallas, with a deep pockets owner who treats his team as his toy and spends whatever it takes to keep his team in CONSTANT playoff contention. It will never be a New York, Chicago, or LA, where the metro area sheer size alone keeps the attendance levels decent even in lean years. It won't be a Utah, San Antonio or Oklahoma City, where there's no other major pro team in town and there's usually nothing else going on during cold winter nights. But it is and will remain on par with such teams as Indiana, Atlanta, Cleveland, Milwaukee, Washington, Miami, etc., where the fans will come in droves if the team is winning, and modestly support the team in lean years.

The Hornets can't really use the Saints as an excuse. By the time basketball starts football season is half over. So estimate about 4 home games on Sundays, maybe a primetime or Monday in there and then maybe the playoffs if they get a home game. They shouldn't really be THAT much of an attendance takeaway. And with no other pro team or really college team to compete with.

[The_Admiral]

Been over this before:

New Orleans in and of itself doesn't have the population or the money to support pro sports. It was dicey before the flood and impossible after. The trick with the Saints is that they've been able to cobble together a regional fanbase far beyond New Orleans, which in tandem with an eight-game mostly-Sunday home schedule, the NFL's generous revenue sharing, and a unbearably cloying storybook championship, has allowed them to get by. The NBA isn't structured this way. Teams generally don't draw from regional fanbases, the ones that do can't count on them to fill the gym on Wednesday nights, and they don't get subsidized enough to survive. The short-term p.r. bump of making the Hornets' move permanent would've been preferable to the mess we're in now, where the Seattle thing was handled as poorly as possible, and the Hornets are on the brink.

[DG_ThenNowForever]

So let's have a doover. Move the Hornets to Key Arena and we'll pretend nothing happened.

The Kings are on their own.

[McCall]

I root for NOLA to be a successful market but it just seems evident that it's not gonna be the case. The area still seems financially strapped for the most part and what people can afford on sports is going goths Saints. They've been there longer and with the Super Bowl win, it's pretty well certain they'll be there for years to come. Superdome renovations combined with there success have eliminated any relocation talks. Unfortunately the Hornets just had bad timing. They weren't there long before Katrina and the area has just taken too many hits where essentially the Saints are the only team that can strive there at this time.

[DG_ThenNowForever]

I'm going to continue to be a broken record on this issue because it seems so obvious to me. The Sonics are in OKC with the next Magic Johnson and that's just how it's going to be; that team isn't coming back to Seattle.

However, so long as any NBA team is struggling to meet attendance goals and Key Arena is just sitting there, it seems to me that the NBA is throwing away money. Yes, Seattle has been affected by the recession, but we're not nearly as bad off as most regions. We currently support an NFL team, D1 Pac-10 sports (including a 70,000-seat football stadium that's always full), 30,000+ regular attendees to MLS, and fine attendance for the Mariners that gets better as the team gets better. I can't confirm, but I'm pretty sure we also sell out WNBA games.

Simply put, people in this city show up for sports. If the problem in New Orleans is that people don't show up for games, that problem would go away in Seattle. There's still the longer-term problem of a new arena, but it feels like NOLA->Seattle in the offseason is a reasonable, doable move with short- and potentially long-term benefits.

[omnivore]

NBA left town because of no new arena. Probably leaving Sacramento for the same reason. Can't go back to a place without a new arena when you said that's why you were leaving in the first place. Seattle is a great market, but until they're willing to pony up for a new arena somehow or some way, they're not going to get a new team no matter how logical it might seems.

The business of sport is anything but.

[B-Rich]

The Hornets can't really use the Saints as an excuse. By the time basketball starts football season is half over. So estimate about 4 home games on Sundays, maybe a primetime or Monday in there and then maybe the playoffs if they get a home game. They shouldn't really be THAT much of an attendance takeaway. And with no other pro team or really college team to compete with.

The examples I provided are for places where the NBA was their first stab at the "big leagues", and remains their only link to the big leagues. You can also include Portland in that number. I don't think what I stated was "using the Saints as an excuse", any more than the Pacers would use the Colts as an excuse or Milwaukee would use the Brewers (or the Packers, for that matter) as an excuse. Though to be honest, I wouldn't be the first person to note that the NBA Hornets/Bobcats decline in fandom in Charlotte was partially a result of the entry of the NFL Carolina Panthers.

Been over this before:

New Orleans in and of itself doesn't have the population or the money to support pro sports. It was dicey before the flood and impossible after. The trick with the Saints is that they've been able to cobble together a regional fanbase far beyond New Orleans, which in tandem with an eight-game mostly-Sunday home schedule, the NFL's generous revenue sharing, and a unbearably cloying storybook championship, has allowed them to get by. The NBA isn't structured this way. Teams generally don't draw from regional fanbases, the ones that do can't count on them to fill the gym on Wednesday nights, and they don't get subsidized enough to survive. The short-term p.r. bump of making the Hornets' move permanent would've been preferable to the mess we're in now, where the Seattle thing was handled as poorly as possible, and the Hornets are on the brink.

Yes, you've "been over it" before, and no one has called you on it. You've consistently shown an anti-New Orleans stance in your posts and I'm tired of it. You make a lot of grand pronouncements about New Orleans and pro sports, and like lots of other here, have been doing so since Katrina when you were ready to write the Saints off as GONE.

"New Orleans in and of itself doesn't have the population or the money to support pro sports." If by New Orleans, you ONLY mean the actual political entity of the City of New Orleans, I'd agree with you wholeheartedly. But the same can be said of Cleveland, St. Louis, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh and even Miami. The metro area, including the suburban parishes (counties) is more than sufficient to support the Saints AND the Hornets.

You state that the Saints have been "able to cobble together a regional fanbase far beyond New Orleans". First of all, what NFL teams doesn't have "a regional fanbase"? New Orleans never "cobbled one together"; they've had one for over 40 years. Secondly, you're off in saying that's one of the reasons the Saints "get by" -- it's not like folks in Lake Charles, Alexandria, and Jackson, MS have saved the Saints by purchase of season tickets. There was an article a couple of years ago in the local paper about the SOLD OUT season ticket base and the 60,000 + waiting list for tickets. The great preponderance of tickets are held by folks not only in the immediate metro area, but on the south shore of Lake Pontchartrain.... Saints fans, like those in Green Bay and Pittsburgh, are probably more rabid than those in the average NFL area. Certainly moreso than in places like Atlanta and Miami. What may be lacked in overall market size is more than made up for in dedication. And yes, Katrina had a big part to play in that. The Saints NEVER sold out a season in advance before that, but the 2005 season that the team spent away galvanized the local fans-- it was a situation wherein they were taking something near and dear for granted, it was almost lost or taken away, so now ever since then it has been cherished even more. That was true for a lot of things after Katrina, not just the Saints, by the way.

In regards to the Hornets, I will give you that the NBA is a different animal than the NFL. Many more games, weeknight games, etc. It's not the weekend "event" that an NFL game or college football game is. And the financial set-up in the NBA is different in terms of financial operations-- salary cap, revenue sharing, etc. However, it is generally considered that after the current labor agreement ends in June, that financial operations will change to be more like the NFL. True revenue sharing is likely, as is a "hard" salary cap (in lieu of the luxury tax) and possible "franchising" of star players.

And despite your pronouncements, the immediate New Orleans metro area at 1.2 million has more than enough people-- and fans-- to adequately support the Hornets. Throw in the population from existing daily commute range (Baton Rouge, Houma-Thibodeaux, Gulfport/Biloxi )and that's another 1.2 million, plenty enough for a fan base. Of course, it hasn't helped that the Hornets' profitable local TV deal resulted in their games only being shown on the south shore (until early this year), limiting the growth of their reachable fan base. That has been changing and hopefully will continue to improve under the new non-Shinn management.

So let's have a doover. Move the Hornets to Key Arena and we'll pretend nothing happened.

Not gonna happen, my friend. Sorry.

Again, the problem is NOT that people don't show up for games, which is a common misperception. We're not breaking records for attendance, but we're not at the bottom of the barrel.

The problem with the Hornets has been bad management and lack of stability. The first three years in NOLA (pre-Katrina) the team had a different coach every year. And George Shinn was without a doubt the worst owner in the NBA and the one most over his head. He took on debt when he bought the expansion Charlotte Hornets with partners, then took on more debt when he bought out his partners once he saw the team was successful. Shinn then in short order: wouldn't pay to keep talent, alienated the local fanbase with his off-court activities and demands for a new arena, took on a minority partner (Ray Wooldridge) for capital, submitted to relocate his team to Memphis, was turned down, moved his team to New Orleans, took on a relocaton fee he never paid (more debt), bought out his minority partner (more debt), relocated the team to Oklahoma City after Katrina, supposedly wanted to stay but was told no by Stern, moved back to New Orleans, took on a different minority partner (Gary Schouest) for capital, tried to sell his debt-ridden team to the minority partner (who balked), then settled on selling it back to the NBA (who held most of his debts, anyway).

Schouest is still around, attending games not only on the floor, but on the Hornets sideline. What most foresee happening is that all parties are waiting for the new CBA to be brokered, then Schouest coming in as the new majority owner, buying the team for essentially the same price that the NBA paid for them, but without the attached debt.

[RETROJR79]

If the Kings does move to Anaheim I will go to their game but I don't know how far is walking distant between Disneyland & Honda Center.

[bigcoyotes]

If the Kings does move to Anaheim I will go to their game but I don't know how far is walking distant between Disneyland & Honda Center.

About 30-40 minutes or about a 7 minute car ride. I lived in Anaheim last semster during my internship at Disneyland

[RETROJR79]

More I think about it I think NBA in Anaheim could actually work I mean Memphis & OKC got a existing team and it working.

I can't say the same thing about New Orleans though.

Ummm...Memphis hasn't really worked out. In fact its a bit of a dumpster fire. Kind of like the NBA's Thrashers, Coyotes, or Panthers.

True Rams80 but at least they have a good fan base unlike when they were in Vancouver.

I think within 2 years the Coyotes will move back to Winnepeg and Trashers will move to Quebec which would be ironic since the IHL Knights moved to Quebec.

[RETROJR79]

If the Kings does move to Anaheim I will go to their game but I don't know how far is walking distant between Disneyland & Honda Center.

About 30-40 minutes or about a 7 minute car ride. I lived in Anaheim last semster during my internship at Disneyland

Oh all right thanks for the heads up bigcoyote I think ill take a taxi when the bus drop me off to Disneyland! =)

[bigcoyotes]

If the Kings does move to Anaheim I will go to their game but I don't know how far is walking distant between Disneyland & Honda Center.

About 30-40 minutes or about a 7 minute car ride. I lived in Anaheim last semster during my internship at Disneyland

Oh all right thanks for the heads up bigcoyote I think ill take a taxi when the bus drop me off to Disneyland! =)

No Problem! Glad I could help

[rams80]

True Rams80 but at least they have a good fan base unlike when they were in Vancouver.

THE TEAM IS HEMORRHAGING MONEY!

If this is the case, they don't have a good fanbase.

[RETROJR79]

If the Kings does move to Anaheim I will go to their game but I don't know how far is walking distant between Disneyland & Honda Center.

About 30-40 minutes or about a 7 minute car ride. I lived in Anaheim last semster during my internship at Disneyland

Oh all right thanks for the heads up bigcoyote I think ill take a taxi when the bus drop me off to Disneyland! =)

No Problem! Glad I could help

[RETROJR79]

If the Kings does move to Anaheim I will go to their game but I don't know how far is walking distant between Disneyland & Honda Center.

About 30-40 minutes or about a 7 minute car ride. I lived in Anaheim last semster during my internship at Disneyland

Oh all right thanks for the heads up bigcoyote I think ill take a taxi when the bus drop me off to Disneyland! =)

No Problem! Glad I could help

KoooL I wanna keep my consecetive Angels streak to 10 yrs! =)

[RETROJR79]

True Rams80 but at least they have a good fan base unlike when they were in Vancouver.

THE TEAM IS HEMORRHAGING MONEY!

If this is the case, they don't have a good fanbase.

Well what I meant is Memphis fans care more than the Vancouver fans.

[IceCap]

You're not setting the bar very high then.

[Lee.]

True Rams80 but at least they have a good fan base unlike when they were in Vancouver.

THE TEAM IS HEMORRHAGING MONEY!

If this is the case, they don't have a good fanbase.

Well what I meant is Memphis fans care more than the Vancouver fans.

Vancouver cares about basketball. This town loves basketball.

What it hates is Stu Jackson and base incompetence, which Jackson brought in droves.

[RETROJR79]

True Rams80 but at least they have a good fan base unlike when they were in Vancouver.

THE TEAM IS HEMORRHAGING MONEY!

If this is the case, they don't have a good fanbase.

Well what I meant is Memphis fans care more than the Vancouver fans.

Vancouver cares about basketball. This town loves basketball.

What it hates is Stu Jackson and base incompetence, which Jackson brought in droves.

Oh yeah I forgot about Stu Jackson sorry Lee.

[Lee.]

If the NBA had given Vancouver half of a chance, and if Stu Jackson was no where near the franchise, the team would probably still be around. Instead, they never allowed the Grizzlies (and, granted, the Raptors) a number one draft pick, when Jackson DID draft he drafted players that openly declared that they didn't want to be in Vancouver, and declined the chance to trade for Steve Nash. Sheer idiocy.

When you have futility like that in the front office and no end in sight, the people tune out.