Help Clean up the Concepts Forum

[Drakonius26]

this thread is disheartening to me...

seems like a lot of the things i've been doing in my NHL tweaks thread are against concept etiquette... which is disheartening simply because of the amount of work and thought i've put into my series, and the amount of positive feedback i've actually gotten on a project that seems to break most of these rules.

overall, i think that we've got a lot of crap going on in this forum that probably shouldn't go on..... but if i had to put a #1 seed on the board for what i think this forum's biggest problem is, it wouldn't be recolors, paint concepts, tweaks, or trolls... it would be egos.

i'm a moderator here (largely due to my work schedule allowing me to help clean up spam at night, and my long-yet-relatively-silent tenure). i love this forum and read it more often than i read my own hockey forum (tbn). but at times, this forum infuriates me because of the high horses that so many of the members sit on. not everyone is a professional. not everyone aspires to be a professional. that doesn't mean their ideas or work don't deserve consideration. i post concepts not for artistic feedback or advice on how to improve my skills. i post them because i want to share my ideas at a creative outlet with other sports nerds that "get it." i can't draw original logos worth a crap, but i love using what's currently available in team identities to "perfect" those packages. if that means making a bruins jersey that changes the black to brown, so be it. or making a cohesive baby-blue based thrashers identity using current templates... not something i've actually done, and not something that requires the utmost skill... but there's a million different ways to do it, and i wouldn't mind seeing a lot of paint-bucket fillers take their crack at it. i mean, the actual team hasn't done it right yet. what's wrong with someone trying it in paint? not every concept has to re-invent the wheel to be worth its while.

basically, a concept doesn't have to be a completely original 100% hand drawn logo package by a professional artist. it can be as simple as a new way of looking at a striping pattern, as far as i'm concerned. maybe i'm alone in that... but some of you come across as so pretentious and pious about this stuff that it's a wonder any newbies even give it a shot.

/rant

I couldn't agree more with this post. I know I'm opinionated about a lot of things, but I try to either not post (if I don't like it) or give that person a nudge in the right direction. I'm an amateur artist, really. More skilled in the field of creative writing than design, but some of the posts and crap that Ice had to deal with on his Historical Hockey Concepts is exactly why I'll never think of posting a concept here. Sometimes even when you try to defend your point in the general forums, you get insulted simply for stating a different opinion than others around you, and that carries over into the concept part of these boards where someone will take offense to any critique you give them because they've had to deal with someone of those idiots, previously mentioned. It's rather disappointing to see these boards on the decline, but we do need to have some sort of changes made without encroaching upon the creativity of others (we don't need to get rid of all people making signatures or wallpapers, just move them) or creating a class system (an executive committee of 10 people that could very easily be abusive or hold a grudge against those they differ with previously) which would undoubtedly cause even more tension than before.

There are currently two threads about wallpapers on the front page. I don't see a single one about avatars. Is there really a point to creating a whole forum for them? Seems like a massive overreaction to something that isn't even problematic (and I've never made a wallpaper, either, so it doesn't help me either way)

Uh... I never said anything about avatars in my post or complained about signatures or wallpapers existing on these boards. If anything I don't want to see them removed, if anything, maybe moved to their own part of the boards, but not removed completely.

[exaccardi]

It's the immense popularity of sigs threads that need a new forum, because the consistency of requests keeps them on top, pushing the true concepts down. I don't have a problem with the sigs threads, i actually make requests myself, but for those of you who don't see the need, let me give you a few examples-

Tornado's Tackle Twill-11 pages

mbannon's Mesh sigs- 7 pages

p.stic's Jersey walpapers- 132 pages

I just think that great threads like these deserve a forum of their own, and concepts need room to breathe without them

[hockey week]

I quoted the wrong post Drakonius, sorry about that. I fixed my post, and it actually gave me the opportunity to add another quote. Honestly, it's such a small problem that it's almost irrelevant. Just scroll past them. That's a few thousand times easier than creating a new subforum for them.

Once that happens, and it gets 5 threads a month, what's next? forums for each sport's concepts? forums for series, divided by sports? It just seems silly for two threads.

What I'm saying, is that these few threads are not the problem that we all have talked about. I struggle to see how it's even a symptom of those problems. The entire "issue" is only distracting from actual solutions.

[elliott]

Attitude, attitude, attitude. Create a positive attitude where clean, nicely presented concepts are admired and where the junk is ignored will both inspire people to post more nicely presented, clean, concepts and discourage trolls and recolour junkies.

Definitely agree. Even when providing criticism on a concept you don't like at all, if you use a negative attitude when posting the criticism, it's likely to end with a "I hate this" or "This sucks the biggest d***" comment, instead of a more carefully worded comment that comes across as helpful, ie.... "I dont like this, but here is what you can do to make it better". The latter is just so much better in both helping improve the quality of work and creating a more positive atmosphere.

[9erssteve]

Rather than a like button or board for 'pros' why not just introduce a reputation system like some other boards have. If you like someones comment or a thread they've created you can give them 'rep' and a small power bar or stars appear under the users avatar that way you can get a rough idea of how valuable a member they are in terms of constructive critism or activity on the board. You could also use rep levels to stop people just hitting up the board for a request and then leaving you could have to have a minimum level of rep before you could post to the request thread or even start a concept thread. I dunno just spit balling here.

I'm with others tho I think ANYTHING that involves a logo, or a uni should count as a concept in here. Recolours, minor tweaks etc etc as long as they can be justified with a good reason and not just 'cos I thought black was cool' I'm happy to see it posted and where I feel inclined will post c&c's.

9erssteve

[exaccardi]

Rather than a like button or board for 'pros' why not just introduce a reputation system like some other boards have. If you like someones comment or a thread they've created you can give them 'rep' and a small power bar or stars appear under the users avatar that way you can get a rough idea of how valuable a member they are in terms of constructive critism or activity on the board. You could also use rep levels to stop people just hitting up the board for a request and then leaving you could have to have a minimum level of rep before you could post to the request thread or even start a concept thread. I dunno just spit balling here.

I'm with others tho I think ANYTHING that involves a logo, or a uni should count as a concept in here. Recolours, minor tweaks etc etc as long as they can be justified with a good reason and not just 'cos I thought black was cool' I'm happy to see it posted and where I feel inclined will post c&c's.

9erssteve

I like the sound of that- it could potentially fix the comments problem, giving others a warning of what to expect in the thread

[Krona]

I'm fine with the idea of looking at what you like, skipping what you don't, but you can't really do that without previews. I've reached the point where I look at the posters name to decide whether i have interest, but I'm missing out on new talent. My point about having a separate forum for recolors, crossovers and tweaks was not to deny those posts, but make it easier to browse. I indulge myself in viewing those threads, but it's not for inspiration or critique, but fun. It's the brownie sundae of the concepts forum. It's not necessarily nourishing, but who doesn't like it once and awhile?

[IceCap]

Adding bells and whistles to the board isn't the solution.

Is it so much to ask for people to just act decently when replying to a concept?

Let's not devolve this community to the level of Facebook with "Like" buttons.

[BBTV]

When I see a great concept that I think needs almost no fixing, I usually don't comment. Why? Because when I would do that, I felt like I was post-padding. If I say something like "This is great, you did a great job and there's nothing I can really recommend to change", I feel like I am not really contributing anything. I don't know how many other posters feel that way, but I think that's why the bad concepts get more attention - it's because for those, there are actually things to critique and recommend (and therefore post).

Sounds like the perfect validation for a Like button or a thumbs up/thumbs down ratings system on each post.

A like / dislike button helps nobody and accomplishes nothing.

If you do not know how to critique art and design then stay out of the concept forum. If you like it, explain in detail what you like. Your explanation might cause someone else to focus on that part and maybe identify something with it that could be improved.

I used to spend a long time writing critiques for concepts and have received many "thanks" from the better artists that no longer post here. I don't even waste my time anymore because the forum is just full of either unappreciative idiots or kids who aren't even trying or "rebrands" that are simply copying a modern logo and pasting it on an old template, etc.

[loogodude90]

Adding bells and whistles to the board isn't the solution.

Is it so much to ask for people to just act decently when replying to a concept?

Let's not devolve this community to the level of Facebook with "Like" buttons.

Yeah, let's not "devolve" this community by adding a feature from the second-most popular website in the world.

When I see a great concept that I think needs almost no fixing, I usually don't comment. Why? Because when I would do that, I felt like I was post-padding. If I say something like "This is great, you did a great job and there's nothing I can really recommend to change", I feel like I am not really contributing anything. I don't know how many other posters feel that way, but I think that's why the bad concepts get more attention - it's because for those, there are actually things to critique and recommend (and therefore post).

Sounds like the perfect validation for a Like button or a thumbs up/thumbs down ratings system on each post.

I actually kind of like the way Facebook only has "like" buttons. I feel that trolls are more likely to dislike something for no reason, than actually like it. Trolls don't "like" things, they "dislike" things.

[crkraider22]

Is there a way to keep polls from automatically jumping to the top after every vote casted?

[IceCap]

Adding bells and whistles to the board isn't the solution.

Is it so much to ask for people to just act decently when replying to a concept?

Let's not devolve this community to the level of Facebook with "Like" buttons.

Yeah, let's not "devolve" this community by adding a feature from the second-most popular website in the world.

Please.

A "Like" button will only encourage people to hit "like" rather then write up helpful critiques. If you can't be bothered write more then "I like it" when you see something you like then you shouldn't be posting in the concepts section at all. I'm not saying you have to write a paragraph or anything, but simply saying "I like it, the crest is great" is more helpful then saying "I like it."

Facebook's "Like" and "Poke" buttons have severely damaged social interaction by taking actual thought out of communicating between two or more people. Lets not bring this nonsense into a forum that's supposed to be a home for constructive artistic criticism.

If you're so enamoured with the idea of Like buttons and concepts then post your own concepts on your Facebook page. This is supposed to be a place for helpful critique, not simplistic "Like" buttons.

[Funkatron101]

Adding bells and whistles to the board isn't the solution.

Is it so much to ask for people to just act decently when replying to a concept?

Let's not devolve this community to the level of Facebook with "Like" buttons.

Yeah, let's not "devolve" this community by adding a feature from the second-most popular website in the world.

Please.

A "Like" button will only encourage people to hit "like" rather then write up helpful critiques. If you can't be bothered write more then "I like it" when you see something you like then you shouldn't be posting in the concepts section at all. I'm not saying you have to write a paragraph or anything, but simply saying "I like it, the crest is great" is more helpful then saying "I like it."

Facebook's "Like" and "Poke" buttons have severely damaged social interaction by taking actual thought out of communicating between two or more people. Lets not bring this nonsense into a forum that's supposed to be a home for constructive artistic criticism.

If you're so enamoured with the idea of Like buttons and concepts then post your own concepts on your Facebook page. This is supposed to be a place for helpful critique, not simplistic "Like" buttons.

It won't stop me from giving feedback when I think it is warranted. However if it a simple recolor, I don't see what is so bad about giving a little "Like this" button feedback. I mean, what more really needs to be said?

[IceCap]

Recolours fall into one of two categories. If they're well done, like Cole's Bruins concept, then you probably owe it to the op to at least say why you like it. If it's poorly rendered then you should either not say anything at all or give constructive feedback for how the op can improve his or her work.

[Funkatron101]

Recolours fall into one of two categories. If they're well done, like Cole's Bruins concept, then you probably owe it to the op to at least say why you like it. If it's poorly rendered then you should either not say anything at all or give constructive feedback for how the op can improve his or her work.

Sure. But how many concepts, recolor or otherwise, get a lot of comments right now? It seems like many get a lot of views, and the creator doesn't have any feedback.

The really bad, really good, or really close with a few tweaks seem to get the most attention. Everything in between gets cast to the side. I don't think that is going to change, but at least the creator could get some idea whether it is liked or not and based on that feedback, then can prompt people to explain.

Just a thought.

[vicfurth]

The most ironic thing about this idiotic thread is that you attached a poll to it. Polls do more damage to push down relevant topics than any sig/avatar thread.

Moreso, this forum should be used for any type of concept. All you're doing is bitching and moaning. No concept to be seen.

[hockey week]

Adding bells and whistles to the board isn't the solution.

Is it so much to ask for people to just act decently when replying to a concept?

Let's not devolve this community to the level of Facebook with "Like" buttons.

Yeah, let's not "devolve" this community by adding a feature from the second-most popular website in the world.

Please.

A "Like" button will only encourage people to hit "like" rather then write up helpful critiques. If you can't be bothered write more then "I like it" when you see something you like then you shouldn't be posting in the concepts section at all. I'm not saying you have to write a paragraph or anything, but simply saying "I like it, the crest is great" is more helpful then saying "I like it."

Facebook's "Like" and "Poke" buttons have severely damaged social interaction by taking actual thought out of communicating between two or more people. Lets not bring this nonsense into a forum that's supposed to be a home for constructive artistic criticism.

If you're so enamoured with the idea of Like buttons and concepts then post your own concepts on your Facebook page. This is supposed to be a place for helpful critique, not simplistic "Like" buttons.

I'm thinking, or rather hoping, that instead of people coming into a thread and clicking the "like" button on the concept post, they'll hit the "like" button on a post that adequately says what they're thinking, someone that already got to the thread and gave the critique that they would have. It would also allow the concept's poster to see which critiques carry more weight, allowing them to better choose between two conflicting comments. I definitely think that a "Like" button could be used in a positive way for critiques. The idea here is to encourage more involvement, and having someone agree with a post through a "like" button is better than them looking at a concept and thinking "my involvement here is unnecessary".

Perhaps it would be better to have an "I agree" or "Here Here!" button than a "Like" button, but for the purposes of the conversation, "Like" is the term used.

[Funkatron101]

Adding bells and whistles to the board isn't the solution.

Is it so much to ask for people to just act decently when replying to a concept?

Let's not devolve this community to the level of Facebook with "Like" buttons.

Yeah, let's not "devolve" this community by adding a feature from the second-most popular website in the world.

Please.

A "Like" button will only encourage people to hit "like" rather then write up helpful critiques. If you can't be bothered write more then "I like it" when you see something you like then you shouldn't be posting in the concepts section at all. I'm not saying you have to write a paragraph or anything, but simply saying "I like it, the crest is great" is more helpful then saying "I like it."

Facebook's "Like" and "Poke" buttons have severely damaged social interaction by taking actual thought out of communicating between two or more people. Lets not bring this nonsense into a forum that's supposed to be a home for constructive artistic criticism.

If you're so enamoured with the idea of Like buttons and concepts then post your own concepts on your Facebook page. This is supposed to be a place for helpful critique, not simplistic "Like" buttons.

I'm thinking, or rather hoping, that instead of people coming into a thread and clicking the "like" button on the concept post, they'll hit the "like" button on a post that adequately says what they're thinking, someone that already got to the thread and gave the critique that they would have. It would also allow the concept's poster to see which critiques carry more weight, allowing them to better choose between two conflicting comments. I definitely think that a "Like" button could be used in a positive way for critiques. The idea here is to encourage more involvement, and having someone agree with a post through a "like" button is better than them looking at a concept and thinking "my involvement here is unnecessary".

Perhaps it would be better to have an "I agree" or "Here Here!" button than a "Like" button, but for the purposes of the conversation, "Like" is the term used.

"Here Here"!

[jaha32]

I really have no problem with how the board works. Everyone has a right to post their work regardless of quality. If it's crap, everyone lets them know. It seems kind of arrogant to say that certain types of concepts are allowed and others aren't. That mentality can discourage creativity.

The only thing I wish would change is how people title their thread. I see the word "concept" a lot in the titles, but it doesnt say "logo" or "jersey". I wish people would title their thread as what they are so I know if Im clicking on a logo, jersey, or something else.

[slapshot]

"Like" accomplishes nothing. A fan of the Yankees could "like" a Yankees concept because it's for the Yankees, rather than for its aesthetic merit.

A "like" button or a reputation monitor provides no more constructive criticism than , or .

I've seen plenty of concepts thar were little more than recolors or differently typed wordmarks that received comments like "awesome!" "best concept evar" and five notworthys.

Those don't do anything but inflate the ego of the artist, and don't come close to explaining why the concept was good or bad. And that defeats the purpose of comments.