BASEBALL ALL-TIME DRAFT: Discussion Thread (PLEASE LOCK)

[pmoehrin]

One is in the HOF and a few others that should be,

I know exactly who you're referring to. With such a lack of depth at the position, I'm surprised he's lasted this long. It helps (hurts?) that he's not a "name player."

I have ten guys listed as HOF 3B. This is also only including guys who played from 1901 onward.

Two are still on the board. One I feel is by far and away the best choice. I have him ranked seventh. The second is a middle of the road guy I have ranked 16th. The third is ranked very far down but he started his career before the turn of the century so he wouldn't be that high.

3B probably has the most names lost in history because there are so few in the HOF.

This is how my big board looked like using 3B that have been selected.

1. Eddie Mathews

2. Mike Schmidt (really should be 1 and 1A because I had Mathews 32 overall and Schmidt 33)

3. Brooks Robinson

4. Wade Boggs

5. George Brett

6. Pie Traynor

8. Ron Santo

11. Chipper Jones

12. Ken Boyer

15. Scott Rolen

19. Darrell Evans

32. Freddy Lindstrom

Lot of missing names in that group and none of them are HOFers. Compare that to 2B were all but two guys in my top 15 are in the HOF. The two being Craig Biggio and Bobby Grich. 9 and 15 respectively.

[pmoehrin]

This is also what I had on my big board for starting pitchers that have gone. (guys like Tim Keefe and Satchel Paige aren't included but if I left anyone off let me know, unless its somebody like a Tim Keefe or Paige. I haven't updated the players taken from last week until tonight.)

Picks have really been divulging from what I have lately. My rotation is set so it doesen't matter anymore but still, there's going to be guys I have in the top 70 and probably even the top 60 that won't get drafted.

1. Walter Johnson

2. Warren Spahn

3. Greg Maddux

4. Roger Clemens

5. Nolan Ryan

6. Grover Cleveland Alexander

7. Randy Johnson

8. Robin Roberts

9. Tom Seaver

10. Steve Carlton

11. Bob Feller

12. Christy Mathewson

13. Lefty Grove

14. Gaylord Perry

15. Don Sutton

16. Red Ruffing

17. Pedro Martinez

18. Early Wynn

19. Bob Gibson

20. Carl Hubbell

21. Don Drysdale

22. Bert Byleven

23. Bob Lemon

24. Phil Niekro

25. Ed Walsh

26. Fergie Jenkins

27. Jim Bunning

28. Hal Newhouser

29. Tom Glavine

31. Cy Young (ranking thrown off due to turn of the century play)

33. John Smoltz

34. Jim Palmer

35. Kevin Brown

38. Juan Marichal

39. Eddie Plank

40. Curt Schilling

41. Sandy Koufax

43. Mike Mussina

45. Whitey Ford

49. Jack Morris

51. Catfish Hunter

55. Dennis Martinez

58. Three Finger Brown

64. Dwight Gooden

69. Dave Stieb

82. Johan Santana

83. Roy Halladay

84. Rube Waddell

86. Jerry Koosman

95. Mickey Lolich

98. Dizzy Dean

99. Bret Saberhagen

113. Ron Guidry

119. C.C. Sabathia

120. Addie Joss

335. Felix Hernandez

346. Tim Lincecum (Anyone with under five seasons under their belt isn't going to be very high no matter how good they are. He retires today, he's not much more then a footnote in history. May change one day but as of now that's all he is. Same thing with King Felix.)

[Billy B]

I get what you're saying about most players that played under five seasons, but it's not like I picked Jayson Heyward or Stephen Strasburg. If Lincecum retired today, he still has 2 Cy Young Awards, led the NL in strikeouts 3 years in a row, was a 4-time All-Star, and a career 3.05 ERA. Hardly just a footnote in history.

[pmoehrin]

I get what you're saying about most players that played under five seasons, but it's not like I picked Jayson Heyward. If Lincecum retired today, he still has 2 Cy Young Awards, led the NL in strikeouts 3 years, was a 4-time All-Star, and a career 3.05 ERA. Hardly just a footnote in history.

Been tons of pitchers to have a couple of great years and did nothing else beyond that.

Mike Scott, Whit Wyatt, Herb Score, Pete Donohue, Mark Prior if you want someone more recent.

If Lincecum retires today, his resume would read very similar to those guys. I cannot even come close to ranking him amogst the all-time greats at this stage in his career. If he keeps this pace for another three or four years I'll change my mind, but my rule with current guys with ranking them all-time is to assume they retire today and right now Tim Lincecum is still a couple of years away from even getting 100 wins.

[knnhrvy16]

I've finally got five starters for a rotation. Question now is, where to put them...

I'm set on Mathewson being my ace, but the rest I'm having a tough time with. Tell me what you guys think of this:

1. Christy Mathewson

2. Robin Roberts

3. Don Sutton

4. Early Wynn

5. Mickey Lolich

I want a tough, durable rotation that won't give the opposition any breaks - hence why it is so workhorse-heavy.

[pmoehrin]

I've finally got five starters for a rotation. Question now is, where to put them...

I'm set on Mathewson being my ace, but the rest I'm having a tough time with. Tell me what you guys think of this:

1. Christy Mathewson

2. Robin Roberts

3. Don Sutton

4. Early Wynn

5. Mickey Lolich

I want a tough, durable rotation that won't give the opposition any breaks - hence why it is so workhorse-heavy.

If you look at my rankings I have Roberts one and Mathewson two, but otherwise it follows what I have perfectly. Sutton is 15, Wynn is 18 and Lolich is 95.

[knnhrvy16]

I've finally got five starters for a rotation. Question now is, where to put them...

I'm set on Mathewson being my ace, but the rest I'm having a tough time with. Tell me what you guys think of this:

1. Christy Mathewson

2. Robin Roberts

3. Don Sutton

4. Early Wynn

5. Mickey Lolich

I want a tough, durable rotation that won't give the opposition any breaks - hence why it is so workhorse-heavy.

If you look at my rankings I have Roberts one and Mathewson two, but otherwise it follows what I have perfectly. Sutton is 15, Wynn is 18 and Lolich is 95.

Yeah, I saw that just now actually. Very interesting, it's making me think about it a bit. How come Roberts is higher than Mathewson in your mind? I don't ask that in any confrontational way, I'm just simply curious. I find it really interesting, actually

[pmoehrin]

I've finally got five starters for a rotation. Question now is, where to put them...

I'm set on Mathewson being my ace, but the rest I'm having a tough time with. Tell me what you guys think of this:

1. Christy Mathewson

2. Robin Roberts

3. Don Sutton

4. Early Wynn

5. Mickey Lolich

I want a tough, durable rotation that won't give the opposition any breaks - hence why it is so workhorse-heavy.

If you look at my rankings I have Roberts one and Mathewson two, but otherwise it follows what I have perfectly. Sutton is 15, Wynn is 18 and Lolich is 95.

Yeah, I saw that just now actually. Very interesting, it's making me think about it a bit. How come Roberts is higher than Mathewson in your mind? I don't ask that in any confrontational way, I'm just simply curious. I find it really interesting, honestly

No that's fine. I'm about the highest guy on Robin Roberts that you will fine. I actually wanted to draft Roberts but held off on him for too long. As you can tell he was the best available pitcher I had for awhile.

He has a stretch from 1950-1955 that has to rank amongst the all-time greatest pitching stretchs in history and it never gets talked about. Leads the NL in wins every year from 1952-1955. Leads the NL in innings pitched from '51-'55. Has the highest strikeout to walk ratio from '52-'54. He's second in WHIP every single year during that stretch but one when he leads the league. For WAR amongst pitches he leads the league 4 times during that tenure.

The guy also may have been the greastest workhorse ever. In 1953 he leads the NL with 346.2 innings pitched. Warren Spahn was second with 265.2

I'd say if the Cy Young award had existed then he would have at least 3 awards, if not more.

Mathewson puts on fantastic numbers as well. I don't look at his career stats too much because he benefits a ton from his era, but he is without question one of the most dominating guys from that era.

Its not taking anything away from Mathewson really. Its just that stetch Roberts has from '50-'55 is Koufax like going by the numbers and it hardly gets talked about at all. The reason I don't think it gets talked about though is timing. If you just compare the numbers side by side to what he did in terms of things like ERA and WHIP to the guys in the 60's which is only 10 years apart, he doesen't look to be that dominating. You really have to take into account the era he played in in order to appreciate someone like Roberts. Its also not like he was a bad pitcher once you get outside that stretch as well. His career ERA from 1956 on was 3.78 which is not too shaby looking at what the league ERA's were and he was still pitching alot of innings as well.

[knnhrvy16]

That's incredible stuff. Really, Roberts has always been one of my favorite hurlers because of the very stretch you're referring to, and because of his workhorse mentality. As I've mentioned plenty of times, I'm a huge workhorse fan, and you're right in that Roberts may have been the greatest of the workhorses. You're givin' me alot of good stuff to think about!

[pmoehrin]

Was starting to wonder if Jim Bunning was ever going to get picked.

He's been the best available starter I've had since I picked Bob Lemon, so he's been up there for awhile.

I also reflected this in my pitcher rankings which I just updated. 1-29 are now gone.

[YessSir32]

Was starting to wonder if Jim Bunning was ever going to get picked.

He's been the best available starter I've had since I picked Bob Lemon, so he's been up there for awhile.

I also reflected this in my pitcher rankings which I just updated. 1-29 are now gone.

I selected Jack Morris, I'm interested where you had him ranked.

[pmoehrin]

Was starting to wonder if Jim Bunning was ever going to get picked.

He's been the best available starter I've had since I picked Bob Lemon, so he's been up there for awhile.

I also reflected this in my pitcher rankings which I just updated. 1-29 are now gone.

I selected Jack Morris, I'm interested where you had him ranked.

49th

I said in the other post I had him 14th for best players eligable for induction not in the HOF. I even have him just in front of a more recent HOFer Catfish Hunter.

[infrared41]

Was starting to wonder if Jim Bunning was ever going to get picked.

He's been the best available starter I've had since I picked Bob Lemon, so he's been up there for awhile.

I also reflected this in my pitcher rankings which I just updated. 1-29 are now gone.

I selected Jack Morris, I'm interested where you had him ranked.

I was debating between Morris and Stieb for my last pick. Stieb was actually ranked higher on a list I was working from.

EDIT: Just saw that I'm on the clock. Give me a few minutes and I'll have a pick.

[YessSir32]

Was starting to wonder if Jim Bunning was ever going to get picked.

He's been the best available starter I've had since I picked Bob Lemon, so he's been up there for awhile.

I also reflected this in my pitcher rankings which I just updated. 1-29 are now gone.

I selected Jack Morris, I'm interested where you had him ranked.

49th

I said in the other post I had him 14th for best players eligable for induction not in the HOF. I even have him just in front of a more recent HOFer Catfish Hunter.

Sounds right, I had him at 52.

[infrared41]

My pick is in. Tom Henke will be closing games for the Crawfords.

[pmoehrin]

My pick is in. Tom Henke will be closing games for the Crawfords.

Stole my pick. Only silver lining is that he was the 5th of the bullpen I wanted so I'll just drop down one.

I knew he was going to go quickly and it was a long debate with me as to take McGraw or Henke. I had McGraw ranked higher and would rather part ways with Henke then McGraw which is why I chose him.

On second thought, I'll just take one of the other big five guys I wanted.

[infrared41]

My pick is in. Tom Henke will be closing games for the Crawfords.

Stole my pick. Only silver lining is that he was the 5th of the bullpen I wanted so I'll just drop down one.

I knew he was going to go quickly and it was a long debate with me as to take McGraw or Henke. I had McGraw ranked higher and would rather part ways with Henke then McGraw which is why I chose him.

On second thought, I'll just take one of the other big five guys I wanted.

Glad to hear it. I always feel better about a pick when someone says they wanted the player.

[mania]

I have my next two picks planned. If it all goes right, I will finally have taken a player from my favorite team. I'm such a dirty homer that I'm surprised I haven't so far.

[pmoehrin]

I had McDaniel 2nd overall for best relievers available. (Don't think anyone is going to get number 1.)

Failed starter with a career ERA of 3.45, but out of the bullpen its 3.14 in just under 1700 innings pitched.

[mania]

I actually had Johnny W. second, but it looked like a run on relief pitching so I saved my batter for next round, assuming he doesn't get poached.