2011 NFL Season

[Chicageaux]

It's a shame that Orton's getting the same disrespect he got in Chicago for four years.

He was a mediocre quarterback with a wimpy arm who could take a hit and never took risks and never made big plays.

Years later he's the same damn guy in Denver as he was in Chicago.

Yet, he won games. He rarely went deep, but he still threw the ball and made completions. He was rushed into the quarterback positon and made it work. As the commentators kept mentioning on Sunday, he fit "vintage" Chicago Bears football.

[CS85]

It's a shame that Orton's getting the same disrespect he got in Chicago for four years.

He was a mediocre quarterback with a wimpy arm who could take a hit and never took risks and never made big plays.

Years later he's the same damn guy in Denver as he was in Chicago.

Yet, he won games. He rarely went deep, but he still threw the ball and made completions. He was rushed into the quarterback positon and made it work. As the commentators kept mentioning on Sunday, he fit "vintage" Chicago Bears football.

Just stop yourself. This is the same meatball argument that perpetuates the Chicago Bears fan base, makes me sad.

The Bears won during the Orton years because the defense was in their prime. Don't kid yourself. Orton didn't play BADLY, but the Bears won precisely DICK with him under center.

There's a ton of guys that call into the score the first time Cutler throws a pick pining for the days of Orton when the Bears were barely hanging around .500 and played low-scoring defensive-reliant football. Or else they glorify the random white WR that's been inactive all season, claiming he's the next Waddle because he had 2 good preseason games. (re: Sanzenbacher experience, only he's actually decent)

"Orton was a winner!" psh. Nonsense, I say. He won the team nothing more than Craig Krenzel or Chad Hutchinson did.

[pmoehrin]

I view Kyle Orton as your average NFL starting QB.

He won't win you any games, but he won't lose you any either.

I just don't understand why the Broncos were so aggressive in trying to get QB's though when they have so many other holes. Granted Orton isn't preferable at QB, but I wouldn't call him a liability either. You can work with Kyle Orton as your QB.

Denver though had the worst defense in the NFL last year. That's your liability. That's the area they need to improve on.

I did not get the first round reach for Tim Tebow, nor did I get the trade for Brady Quinn. If Orton was a bad QB and the Broncos didn't have as many holes as they did I could understand it, but Orton is workable and there's much bigger problems then QB right now for Denver.

[ninersdd]

Man the two football teams I hate the most(Raiders and ASU) have one common problem: High amount of penalty flags. Still though McFadden and Bush are a damn good duo at running back and could definitely challenge for the division(If San Diego doesn't get out of their own way).

[Chicageaux]

It's a shame that Orton's getting the same disrespect he got in Chicago for four years.

He was a mediocre quarterback with a wimpy arm who could take a hit and never took risks and never made big plays.

Years later he's the same damn guy in Denver as he was in Chicago.

Yet, he won games. He rarely went deep, but he still threw the ball and made completions. He was rushed into the quarterback positon and made it work. As the commentators kept mentioning on Sunday, he fit "vintage" Chicago Bears football.

Just stop yourself. This is the same meatball argument that perpetuates the Chicago Bears fan base, makes me sad.

The Bears won during the Orton years because the defense was in their prime. Don't kid yourself. Orton didn't play BADLY, but the Bears won precisely DICK with him under center.

There's a ton of guys that call into the score the first time Cutler throws a pick pining for the days of Orton when the Bears were barely hanging around .500 and played low-scoring defensive-reliant football. Or else they glorify the random white WR that's been inactive all season, claiming he's the next Waddle because he had 2 good preseason games. (re: Sanzenbacher experience, only he's actually decent)

"Orton was a winner!" psh. Nonsense, I say. He won the team nothing more than Craig Krenzel or Chad Hutchinson did.

Come on man, don't compare him to Krenzel, Hutchinson, Quinn, or any of them. The guy was decent. I'm not saying he's better than Cutler or anything like that. But, is he better than Tim Tebow? Yes. He doesn't deserve to be booed the first game of the year. It's the same thing Bears fans were doing when they were calling for Brian Griese to start over Orton and Grossman and the rest of that whole triangle. Remember how that worked out?

Yes, I agree completely that it was the defense in 2005. You're throwing around the "Orton Years" though like he was under center for quite some time. He played two full seasons.. that's about it.

I just don't think a fan base should be booing their starting quarterback in the first game of the season, but I guess I'm in the minority there.

[CS85]

I did not get the first round reach for Tim Tebow, nor did I get the trade for Brady Quinn. If Orton was a bad QB and the Broncos didn't have as many holes as they did I could understand it, but Orton is workable and there's much bigger problems then QB right now for Denver.

McDaniels put a hole in that franchise that could sink it for a few years. I honestly would be starting Tebow right now if I were in Denver. Find out what you have, see if there's any upside, and then be done with it.

[NJTank]

That is the right thing to do.

[pmoehrin]

I did not get the first round reach for Tim Tebow, nor did I get the trade for Brady Quinn. If Orton was a bad QB and the Broncos didn't have as many holes as they did I could understand it, but Orton is workable and there's much bigger problems then QB right now for Denver.

McDaniels put a hole in that franchise that could sink it for a few years. I honestly would be starting Tebow right now if I were in Denver. Find out what you have, see if there's any upside, and then be done with it.

I'd start Brady Quinn way before I'd start Tim Tebow. The only reason both are listed as number two on the depth chart is because Denver is too afraid to admidt that Tebow is simply not going to be an NFL starting QB.

I don't think many people realize just how far it is he has to go. All the growing pains a Peyton Manning went through in college, he has to go through now. He never had to go through any growing pains in college. He was talented enough to start from day one, and Florida had enough talent around him to where there was no reason to ask him to do anything out of his comfort zone.

So he has to go through that process first and then learn how to be an NFL starting QB and he'll be what 26 years old by the time that happens? Your going to really wait three years for this guy to develop and then hope you have something to show for it at the end? No way is that going to happen.

Brady Quinn is light years ahead of him right now. That's who you go with and its not even close. The only argument Tim Tebow has for him is that he's more popular.

All I can say about Tim Tebow he is exhibit A on why fans aren't allowed to run NFL teams.

[CS85]

Why start Quinn? It's been proven that he sucks as a starter. You may as well make it evident to everybody that Tebow's taking the franchise nowhere and isn't capable. Put it on display for all to see and vindicate his eventual release instead of leaving the skeptical fans wondering what could have been.

[pmoehrin]

Why start Quinn? It's been proven that he sucks as a starter. You may as well make it evident to everybody that Tebow's taking the franchise nowhere and isn't capable. Put it on display for all to see and vindicate his eventual release instead of leaving the skeptical fans wondering what could have been.

I don't think Tebow is capable of taking of the Broncos anywhere and they should release him or make him a tight end or a fullback.

No other team is going to sign him as a starting QB. He's long term project at best right now. If all goes according to plan he becomes a starter by 2014. If your going to wait around that long for a QB to develop you need to have a ton of faith that this is going to be the guy. I don't think your going to find any coach in the NFL other then maybe Josh McDaniels who has that kind of faith in Tim Tebow.

I don't think Brady Quinn is a great QB either (I said earlier I don't think that trade made sense either), but I can tell you I would take him in a heartbeat over Tebow at QB.

[CS85]

I don't think Tebow is capable of taking of the Broncos anywhere and they should release him or make him a tight end or a fullback.

1 opinion is not justification for abandoning him as a quarterback. Plus converting him to TE or FB is an organizational admittance of failure that goes beyond simply releasing him. I think they'd rather do like they did with McDaniels and wash their hands right away.

No other team is going to sign him as a starting QB. He's long term project at best right now. If all goes according to plan he becomes a starter by 2014. If your going to wait around that long for a QB to develop you need to have a ton of faith that this is going to be the guy. I don't think your going to find any coach in the NFL other then maybe Josh McDaniels who has that kind of faith in Tim Tebow.

False. Some team desperate for ticket sales and hype (cough, Dolphins) will invest in the giant money machine that Tebow brings. The Broncos aren't going to give him that kind of time to develop, nor should they. If Orton goes to hell (which is going to happen and soon), I think they'll give the keys to the car to Tim and tell him he's got a ___ game audition to prove he's worth the effort.

I don't think Brady Quinn is a great QB either (I said earlier I don't think that trade made sense either), but I can tell you I would take him in a heartbeat over Tebow at QB.

That makes sense if you want to win now, but this is only possible if there's a superbowl caliber defense on the team, which Denver does not have at all.

[CS85]

Come on man, don't compare him to Krenzel, Hutchinson, Quinn, or any of them. The guy was decent. I'm not saying he's better than Cutler or anything like that. But, is he better than Tim Tebow? Yes. He doesn't deserve to be booed the first game of the year.

Putting up a 64 qb rating and losing the season opener at home to the meh Raiders deserves booing. Plus you can't say he's better than Tebow because Tebow's hardly gotten any time to really run the offense. Obviously the fact that Tebow's played himself down to 3rd string is indicative, but until Tebow is given the reins you can't say with total accuracy that Orton is better than Tebow.

It's the same thing Bears fans were doing when they were calling for Brian Griese to start over Orton and Grossman and the rest of that whole triangle. Remember how that worked out?

Grossman was on an NFC title team (obviously he wasn't a direct cause of that but he got the job done...sort of), Griese won the Bears a couple games but had a far superior arm and field general aura than Orton. Grossman's upside when he's on is heads and tails superior to Orton (see: WAS vs NYG in week 1), Griese was on his last legs and left town quietly, but didn't play himself entirely out of the conversation, franchise needed to move on.

Yes, I agree completely that it was the defense in 2005. You're throwing around the "Orton Years" though like he was under center for quite some time. He played two full seasons.. that's about it.

If I'm not allowed to use 2 seasons worth of starting play to justify my dismissal of Orton, you're not allowed to use it as justification for defending him.

I just don't think a fan base should be booing their starting quarterback in the first game of the season, but I guess I'm in the minority there.

one more time for reference:

Putting up a 64 qb rating and losing the season opener at home to the meh Raiders deserves booing.

[The_Admiral]

BayouJim sure posts like a Bears fan from the southwest 'burbs.

[pmoehrin]

I don't think Tebow is capable of taking of the Broncos anywhere and they should release him or make him a tight end or a fullback.

1 opinion is not justification for abandoning him as a quarterback.

Unless that one opinion is John Elway, and Elway for all reports doesen't have much confidence in any of the QB's. If there's a QB he sees in the draft that he really likes they will pull the trigger and they were looking at QB's extensively for this year's draft.

I think the starting QB for the Broncos by 2014 will probably be none of the players on the current roster.

I'm loooking at this year's draft you got Matt Barkley, Andruw Luck and Landry Jones all coming out. I think if Denver gets a high enough pick they're gonna take one of those guys.

Unless your building towards something with Tebow which I don't think they are, or you have some confidence that Brady Quinn can be the guy that he was projected to be, you have to take one of those guys. That's probably the best draft class of QB's your going to get for at least another five years. You have to pull the trigger if you have any question at all about your starting QB if you have a shot at one of them.

Orton is signed through next year, so keep him as the starter for that year and at the end of the year you move on.

[CS85]

I don't see the point in trotting Orton out there to suck it up while fans chant for Tebow when you could trot Tebow out there to be just as bad and have them not chant anyone's name. Makes things a lot easier when you dump all 3 of them and go in a new direction next year, which they desperately need to do.

[Rockstar Matt]

I thoroughly enjoyed the Raiders game tonight. That was good 'ole fashion Raider football. Who else would get more penalty yards (131) than passing yards (99), yet still win the game. Their defense looked dominant, as did their running game (and their defense against the run), and they got under the skin of the Bronco players. They made the Broncos get frustrated and that got them to commit stupid, stupid penalties. Since my favorite team lost this weekend, at least my 2nd favorite won tonight. I think the Raiders will surprise people this year.

Go Cowboys!

Go Raiders!

[CS85]

I think the Raiders will surprise people this year.

The Raiders could be the 2011 version of last year's Seahawks, sans playoff victory.

Also for you Chargers fans who enjoyed seeing Kaeding carted off with a torn muscle, there's apparently multiple torn ligaments, his career is in question at this point.

[pmoehrin]

I don't see the point in trotting Orton out there to suck it up while fans chant for Tebow when you could trot Tebow out there to be just as bad and have them not chant anyone's name. Makes things a lot easier when you dump all 3 of them and go in a new direction next year, which they desperately need to do.

Because he's not the best QB on the team and he's not the QB of the future. Putting in a guy in simply the fans think its a good idea is a terrible reason. They're not spending the hours in practice watching these guys. They're not in the film room, or the locker room either. All they see is the end product.

You start the guy that gives you the best chance of winning. I don't care if your record is 1-14. As Herm Edwards says you play to win the game. Not to appease people that have put in maybe 1% at best of the time and energy a coaching staff puts in as to what the depth chart looks like.

Your putting him in an awkward position as well. Your really think anyone is going to have any confidence in a guy that got into the huddle basically via fan vote? You didn't show it on the practice field that you deserved to be here, but yet here you are anyway? Hey lets bring in Snooki to be the running back while were at it. If the fans want it, why not?

You could very well have the team quit on you as a coach. If you can get in the starting lineup without showing you deserve to be there during practice, then what's the point of practice then? As long as the fans feel I should start then I should start. I don't prove anything to you. If we finish 2-14 guess who's ass its gonna be as well?

So yeah I could understand why you would keep Orton as the starting QB, especially when to a man I'll bet you that's who the Broncos feel the starting QB should be.

[CS85]

My argument wasn't about the fans at all, it was about the front office doing themselves a favor and saying "well at least we know the guy's no good," which would simultaneously silence the multitudes.

[pmoehrin]

My argument wasn't about the fans at all, it was about the front office doing themselves a favor and saying "well at least we know the guy's no good," which would simultaneously silence the multitudes.

You may not be able to tell if a guy "has it" during practice but you can certainly tell if he doesen't. You spend that many hours watching a guy and at the end of it you don't have any faith that he can get the job done, its because he can't.

And if your doing it shut the fans up, then your making the move for the fans and that is how the players are going to look at it. You have to prove yourself in practice before you can get on the field. That goes for every player who's ever played in the NFL. If your getting on the field for any other reason, there's going to be a problem.

You can deal with Tebow fanboys calling into sports talk radio every day about how Tebow should start and why Orton sucks. You can't deal with a potential team mutiny and that's what you would be what your risking if you just put Tebow in the lineup even though he hasn't shown to anybody on the team that he deserves to be the starting QB.