B1G Revisions

[thespleenenator]

Dude, you're free to give CONSTRUCTIVE criticism. Telling him that he has no imagination and all his concepts suck isn't constructive in the slightest. Make suggestions for HOW he can fix his concepts, or simply don't post.

You could even politely say "I am not seeing a lot of interesting changes here...maybe you could try to go out on more of a limb for a couple of teams." But to say "I really don't mean for this to come off as an attack," right before an attack...come on.

One key change you have is in the Northwestern primaries. I'd love for them to drop black. I know, I know, you can't just have purple and not add black...well I think you can and I think the primaries look great. I'd rather see only purple trim on the white road uniforms and, of course, no black alt. The home uniform is just how NU should look.

Look back on the previous pages I have said that, but he hasn't listened. It's not just me that's been trying to tell him that he should be less cautious. Now, it's just getting irritating. There's nothing to improve on because there's no base to improve on. There's no concept here to improve upon.

[mbannon92]

Dude, you're free to give CONSTRUCTIVE criticism. Telling him that he has no imagination and all his concepts suck isn't constructive in the slightest. Make suggestions for HOW he can fix his concepts, or simply don't post.

You could even politely say "I am not seeing a lot of interesting changes here...maybe you could try to go out on more of a limb for a couple of teams." But to say "I really don't mean for this to come off as an attack," right before an attack...come on.

One key change you have is in the Northwestern primaries. I'd love for them to drop black. I know, I know, you can't just have purple and not add black...well I think you can and I think the primaries look great. I'd rather see only purple trim on the white road uniforms and, of course, no black alt. The home uniform is just how NU should look.

Look back on the previous pages I have said that, but he hasn't listened. It's not just me that's been trying to tell him that he should be less cautious. Now, it's just getting irritating. There's nothing to improve on because there's no base to improve on. There's no concept here to improve upon.

Then quit looking at the thread and quit commenting. Simple as that. How hard is that for you to understand?

[wtpirate]

I hafta agree with everyone about thesleenenator. Not only is it really rude, but now you've jacked his thread so those of us who actually want to see what Tim has done are having a hard time, I would apreciate it if you's stop.

Thanks

[thespleenenator]

Okay, constructive criticism.

First of all, the stripes on the sleeves looks ridiculous. Some players don't even wear sleeves, so that would create some inconsistencies with the uniforms (like with OSU's pro combat).

Illinois: This was actually enough of a deviation from their current look, so all in all, this is actually a good set. I like how you matched the helmet strips and the pants stripe, and if you put the sleeve stripes on the shoulders, this would be great. I grey facemask should be white, as the grey is really out of place. I also like the collar.

Indiana: I love this look. This is how Indiana should look The one thing I would do is make the bucket game pants their normal look. The pants are very unique and give IU a real identity.

Iowa: I don't see the concept here. You moved their shoulder stripes to their arms? That's it? Like I said, be more outside of the box. You don't have to go crazy. Try putting their I logo on the helmet, and use the hawkeye as a shoulder pattern. Or reverse the colors on their helmet as a alternate. Iowa also has a rich tradition in farming, so why not put some sort of corn row pattern on their number? Heck, why not use corn rows as a shoulder stripe?

Michgan: The socks are literally the only change from their current uniform. Again, why not incorporate the winged pattern into the uniform more? You could have the M on the helmet and the wings on the shoulders. I think a storm trooper look as an alt would be interesting as well. Also, you may want to outline the homes in white in order to make the home and road uniforms consistent.

Michigan State: You took away everything that makes MSU's uniforms unique (except for the helmet stripe) and took them away. Even with the stripe, you took way what made it unique (the spartan plume effect of it) They look like a big generic mush now. I understand if you don't like the font or the yolk, but taking away both ruins it. If you don't want either, replace it with something that you think is better. Maybe a greek numeral inspired font? The throwback is very unnecessary. That's a throwback to a design they wore what, 2 years ago?

Minnesota: I like the sleeve stripe, but it looks bad on the arms. The maroon on the alt pants doesn't match the maroon on the helmet and jersey. I would also continue the same striping on the shoulder on the leg, to give it a full asymmetrical look.

Nebraska: I love the idea of the blackshirt undershirt for the defense. Other than that, same problem as the others. You did nothing.

Northwestern: I like the use of the logo on the side, but I think it would look better on top of the stripes. Once again, the compression shirt stripe idea is stupid. I like the return to a white facemask and white pants at home. I think black pants on the road would be great though.

Basically, my advice is this: do something. These "concepts' have been, with a few exceptions, rehashes of the current uniforms with a new template. And the changes you did make were either subtle, easy to make and think of, or they were addition by subtraction. You added nothing that we've never seen before (except Indiana), and quite frankly, I looks as though you were too scared to change anything because it's the Big Ten, which is absolutely pathetic.

There, is that better?

Sorry for the rage at the end there. You don't have to look at that if you don't want to.

[mbannon92]

That's better spleen, but did you actually suggest that he should change Michigan's helmet by putting the M on it????? That has to be the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. They have the best looking, most unique, most recognizable helmet in all of college football (and that's coming from a Notre Dame student).

[thespleenenator]

That's better spleen, but did you actually suggest that he should change Michigan's helmet by putting the M on it????? That has to be the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. They have the best looking, most unique, most recognizable helmet in all of college football (and that's coming from a Notre Dame student).

It was just an idea. I'm not in favor of that either, but considering these ideas don't have a lot of actual ideas to them, I was just throwing something out there.

[TheOneAndOnlyMau]

Whats the intent behind the one sleeve design?

Based off the mascot. I really don't mean for this to come off as an attack, but do you have any imagination? If that's what you call "major changes", well then no wonder all of these have been boring.

If his concepts bother you so much, stop looking at them, rather than being a trolling d-bag padding your post count.

Im am in no way padding my post count or trolling. I asked for some design intent. Designs do have intent you know, you dont just go slap a stripe on the sleeve and say " i did it because it looks cool." Thats not design.

Now, two other users pointed out the design intent as stated in the original post. Great. Being a design student, IMO, using goldy the gopher because there are has two stripes on one arm of his sweater isnt enough intent to establish grounds for a good design. IMO. Im entitled to my opinion. If youre not able to see other people opinions, comments and criticism about your (or someone elses) designs, you probably shouldnt be a designer. Dont attack me for asking a question that was meant to push the designer out of their own comfort zone and better their concept. That just makes you come across as a 'troll "d-bag" trying to pad your post count.'

As far as the two new designs go...

Nebraska: NOTHING seems to have changed. The black undershirts fir the defense sounds like a decent idea though

NW: I would actually be fine with this set if the northwestern stripes were not on the sleeves. Try putting them on the sleeves and incorporating the logo into the pants design somewhere... maybe truncate the stripe and put it on the hip

[MDGP]

I'm pretty sure he was talking to Spleen.

Anyway, I personally like these concepts/tweaks. IMO the Big Ten teams should have simple, clean looks. Frankly, I really like all of these designs, and I think they fit the teams well. However, I am a fan of the black on Northwestern... Maybe make one of the sleeve stripes on the home uniform black, just for the sake of consistency.

[drdougfresh]

Okay, constructive criticism.

First of all, the stripes on the sleeves looks ridiculous. Some players don't even wear sleeves, so that would create some inconsistencies with the uniforms (like with OSU's pro combat).

Illinois: This was actually enough of a deviation from their current look, so all in all, this is actually a good set. I like how you matched the helmet strips and the pants stripe, and if you put the sleeve stripes on the shoulders, this would be great. I grey facemask should be white, as the grey is really out of place. I also like the collar.

Indiana: I love this look. This is how Indiana should look The one thing I would do is make the bucket game pants their normal look. The pants are very unique and give IU a real identity.

Iowa: I don't see the concept here. You moved their shoulder stripes to their arms? That's it? Like I said, be more outside of the box. You don't have to go crazy. Try putting their I logo on the helmet, and use the hawkeye as a shoulder pattern. Or reverse the colors on their helmet as a alternate. Iowa also has a rich tradition in farming, so why not put some sort of corn row pattern on their number? Heck, why not use corn rows as a shoulder stripe?

Michgan: The socks are literally the only change from their current uniform. Again, why not incorporate the winged pattern into the uniform more? You could have the M on the helmet and the wings on the shoulders. I think a storm trooper look as an alt would be interesting as well. Also, you may want to outline the homes in white in order to make the home and road uniforms consistent.

Michigan State: You took away everything that makes MSU's uniforms unique (except for the helmet stripe) and took them away. Even with the stripe, you took way what made it unique (the spartan plume effect of it) They look like a big generic mush now. I understand if you don't like the font or the yolk, but taking away both ruins it. If you don't want either, replace it with something that you think is better. Maybe a greek numeral inspired font? The throwback is very unnecessary. That's a throwback to a design they wore what, 2 years ago?

Minnesota: I like the sleeve stripe, but it looks bad on the arms. The maroon on the alt pants doesn't match the maroon on the helmet and jersey. I would also continue the same striping on the shoulder on the leg, to give it a full asymmetrical look.

Nebraska: I love the idea of the blackshirt undershirt for the defense. Other than that, same problem as the others. You did nothing.

Northwestern: I like the use of the logo on the side, but I think it would look better on top of the stripes. Once again, the compression shirt stripe idea is stupid. I like the return to a white facemask and white pants at home. I think black pants on the road would be great though.

Basically, my advice is this: do something. These "concepts' have been, with a few exceptions, rehashes of the current uniforms with a new template. And the changes you did make were either subtle, easy to make and think of, or they were addition by subtraction. You added nothing that we've never seen before (except Indiana), and quite frankly, I looks as though you were too scared to change anything because it's the Big Ten, which is absolutely pathetic.

There, is that better?

Sorry for the rage at the end there. You don't have to look at that if you don't want to.

I agree with this. Yes, saying he has no creativity was a bit over the line, but there's also a part of me that wants to see Tim prove this wrong somehow. The most creative thing we've seen so far is the candy-striped pants. Nothing inventive, per se, and as I've said before-- I feel like these are just regurgitations of the current/recent sets.

Nebraska Blackshirts was a good idea, and that's the kind of original thinking that a concept series like this needs. I hate the fact that the B1G has a stigma around it that it's 'untouchable.' Nothing is untouchable, and I hardly feel like that's a valid excuse for 'playing it safe'. There are subtle changes you can make without being a repeater.

Also, it would serve you well to update this template to a Speed Machine template, as the template you are currently using is for last year's jersey style from Nike. Just a minor detail, but I think it would help sharpen up the presentation, as I think I speak for a lot of people in saying that this template has been beat to death with a shovel.

Tim, I think it would be a good idea to push yourself, just a little bit. You'd be getting much better feedback, and I think it would showcase your creativity more.

[thespleenenator]

I agree with this. Yes, saying he has no creativity was a bit over the line, but there's also a part of me that wants to see Tim prove this wrong somehow. The most creative thing we've seen so far is the candy-striped pants. Nothing inventive, per se, and as I've said before-- I feel like these are just regurgitations of the current/recent sets.

Nebraska Blackshirts was a good idea, and that's the kind of original thinking that a concept series like this needs. I hate the fact that the B1G has a stigma around it that it's 'untouchable.' Nothing is untouchable, and I hardly feel like that's a valid excuse for 'playing it safe'. There are subtle changes you can make without being a repeater.

Also, it would serve you well to update this template to a Speed Machine template, as the template you are currently using is for last year's jersey style from Nike. Just a minor detail, but I think it would help sharpen up the presentation, as I think I speak for a lot of people in saying that this template has been beat to death with a shovel.

Tim, I think it would be a good idea to push yourself, just a little bit. You'd be getting much better feedback, and I think it would showcase your creativity more.

Exactly. I'm hoping this propels him to get more creative with his designs. The one thing he has going for him is the presentation, which most people lack. That's part of what drives me insane. He has the resources and skills to pull off some great stuff, but he never uses them to their full potential.

[andrewharrington]

I agree with this. Yes, saying he has no creativity was a bit over the line, but there's also a part of me that wants to see Tim prove this wrong somehow. The most creative thing we've seen so far is the candy-striped pants. Nothing inventive, per se, and as I've said before-- I feel like these are just regurgitations of the current/recent sets.

Nebraska Blackshirts was a good idea, and that's the kind of original thinking that a concept series like this needs. I hate the fact that the B1G has a stigma around it that it's 'untouchable.' Nothing is untouchable, and I hardly feel like that's a valid excuse for 'playing it safe'. There are subtle changes you can make without being a repeater.

Also, it would serve you well to update this template to a Speed Machine template, as the template you are currently using is for last year's jersey style from Nike. Just a minor detail, but I think it would help sharpen up the presentation, as I think I speak for a lot of people in saying that this template has been beat to death with a shovel.

Tim, I think it would be a good idea to push yourself, just a little bit. You'd be getting much better feedback, and I think it would showcase your creativity more.

Exactly. I'm hoping this propels him to get more creative with his designs. The one thing he has going for him is the presentation, which most people lack. That's part of what drives me insane. He has the resources and skills to pull off some great stuff, but he never uses them to their full potential.

But, what good is being 'creative' with a football uniform when the end product looks gimmicky and childish, and, well, looks more like a speed skating bodysuit than a football uniform? That's not design either. Not good design, anyway. If you have to toss it in a season or two because it's not trendy anymore or it looks dated, that's a bad design, and that's what Tim is trying to avoid. I don't love his designs, and I think there are things that he could do to liven up his heritage-inspired designs, bit his core philosophy is in the right place.

I really don't mean for this to come off like an attack, but every 'creative' idea you suggested in your earlier post was bad. Really bad. Cornrow shoulder stripes and corn patterned numbers? These are grown freaking men wearing this stuff, not fifth graders.

[Lights Out]

BTW, while I like the Minnesota concept here, am I the only one who doesn't hate what they're wearing now? It's modern without being objectionable or overbearing.

[TimEOBrien]

I agree with this. Yes, saying he has no creativity was a bit over the line, but there's also a part of me that wants to see Tim prove this wrong somehow. The most creative thing we've seen so far is the candy-striped pants. Nothing inventive, per se, and as I've said before-- I feel like these are just regurgitations of the current/recent sets.

Nebraska Blackshirts was a good idea, and that's the kind of original thinking that a concept series like this needs. I hate the fact that the B1G has a stigma around it that it's 'untouchable.' Nothing is untouchable, and I hardly feel like that's a valid excuse for 'playing it safe'. There are subtle changes you can make without being a repeater.

Also, it would serve you well to update this template to a Speed Machine template, as the template you are currently using is for last year's jersey style from Nike. Just a minor detail, but I think it would help sharpen up the presentation, as I think I speak for a lot of people in saying that this template has been beat to death with a shovel.

Tim, I think it would be a good idea to push yourself, just a little bit. You'd be getting much better feedback, and I think it would showcase your creativity more.

Exactly. I'm hoping this propels him to get more creative with his designs. The one thing he has going for him is the presentation, which most people lack. That's part of what drives me insane. He has the resources and skills to pull off some great stuff, but he never uses them to their full potential.

I've said all I will about the reductive comments in this thread, they happen everywhere on the internet and they aren't the first (or last) time I've encountered them. I'm just going to move past them like an adult.

As for the need to push myself to be more "creative" by being more outlandish (which is basically what is being said...) are silly claims. First, if you took the time to visit my website (there's a huge :censored:ing link, come on...) you would quickly see I can do "push the envelope" design:

Like this IU Road Uni

Or this IU Oregon-inspired alternate

Maybe you like this Denver Broncos concept better

How about these Jaguar socks

These Texans compression sleeves are pretty out-there

This NU fauxback is pretty wacky

But those might be too garish for you

How about this Seahawks concept

These Cards unis are fun

Keeping with the bird theme, lets go to HotLanta

Even my recent Pac-12 post featured these Crazy Cal Concepts

And that's just my football stuff. I can think outside the box, but many people believe that most creativity comes from placing restrictions and working within the realm of those constrictions to achieve something transcendent. That was the goal of this feature over at Uni Watch, to see what would happen if I changed teams to use less red and blue.

I understand these unis aren't for everyone, but I never came close to saying these were sweeping changes (in fact I said, "most of the BigTen's teams have well established uniform tradition that I don't want to mess with. Never the less, I found at least one thing to tweak on almost every uniform," in the ordinal post and I said I was, "fine-tuning [my] BigTen concepts" in my website's article).

To place creativity only in the realm of complete overhaul diminishes what can be accomplished through 'tweaks'.

The concept of, "just throwing something out there," does not interest me nor do I think leads to good design. Good design leads to good design, whether it's from overhauling or tweaking.

However, I am a fan of the black on Northwestern... Maybe make one of the sleeve stripes on the home uniform black, just for the sake of consistency.

NU is BFBS in the truest sense. In 92 Gary Barnett let his kid come up with NU's new uniforms. Really? BUT 95-96 was the greatest era of NU football in recent memory and black has appeared in almost every other uniform on campus, so Black has sort of become a third color at NU. In that spirit, and the spirit of throwback heritage, I keep the black alt but the black on purple in the current uni set doesn't show up well at all. Hence the all white Northwestern stripes.

[thespleenenator]

Those are amazing deigns! Why can't you do stuff like that with every B1G school? You say they are garish, but I think the majority would agree that those are the kinds of things we want to see. I have no idea why you can't see that.

And andrewharrington, why can't you have something that's creative AND doesn't look gimmicky or childish? That's what good designers do. That's what should happen. Those ideas I through out were just that; ideas. Seeing as there wasn't much intent to these concepts, I through stuff out to maybe inspire him. You never know.

Also tim, you need to stop calling these comments "reductive". Believe it or not, we're actually trying to give you advice, and seeing the work that drdougfresh and mau have done, I would listen to them.

[TimEOBrien]

Look back on the previous pages I have said that, but he hasn't listened. It's not just me that's been trying to tell him that he should be less cautious. Now, it's just getting irritating. There's nothing to improve on because there's no base to improve on. There's no concept here to improve upon.

I did all these concepts and released them at once on my site, so I'm releasing them day by day here to get C&C on the individual teams. I finished these over a week ago and aren't changing them from then to now just to meet up with the C&C, I'll have to wait and do another set at some point in the future with these C&C in mind.

To get irritated when you could easily see what's coming seems masochistic, haha.

[thespleenenator]

Yeah, I checked out your site shortly afterward and realized that. Still doesn't mean you can't change them.

[TimEOBrien]

Also tim, you need to stop calling these comments "reductive". Believe it or not, we're actually trying to give you advice, and seeing the work that drdougfresh and mau have done, I would listen to them.

Questioning whether or not I have an imagination is reductive.

Telling me not to put stripes on the sleeves is constructive.

Claiming that these aren't concepts is reductive.

Giving an idea for a new Michigan helmet design is constructive.

There's a clear difference.

[DelayedPenalty]

Whats the intent behind the one sleeve design?

Based off the mascot. I really don't mean for this to come off as an attack, but do you have any imagination? If that's what you call "major changes", well then no wonder all of these have been boring.

If his concepts bother you so much, stop looking at them, rather than being a trolling d-bag padding your post count.

Im am in no way padding my post count or trolling. I asked for some design intent. Designs do have intent you know, you dont just go slap a stripe on the sleeve and say " i did it because it looks cool." Thats not design.

Now, two other users pointed out the design intent as stated in the original post. Great. Being a design student, IMO, using goldy the gopher because there are has two stripes on one arm of his sweater isnt enough intent to establish grounds for a good design. IMO. Im entitled to my opinion. If youre not able to see other people opinions, comments and criticism about your (or someone elses) designs, you probably shouldnt be a designer. Dont attack me for asking a question that was meant to push the designer out of their own comfort zone and better their concept. That just makes you come across as a 'troll "d-bag" trying to pad your post count.'

Yeah...wasn't talking to you champ.

[drdougfresh]

I agree with this. Yes, saying he has no creativity was a bit over the line, but there's also a part of me that wants to see Tim prove this wrong somehow. The most creative thing we've seen so far is the candy-striped pants. Nothing inventive, per se, and as I've said before-- I feel like these are just regurgitations of the current/recent sets.

Nebraska Blackshirts was a good idea, and that's the kind of original thinking that a concept series like this needs. I hate the fact that the B1G has a stigma around it that it's 'untouchable.' Nothing is untouchable, and I hardly feel like that's a valid excuse for 'playing it safe'. There are subtle changes you can make without being a repeater.

Also, it would serve you well to update this template to a Speed Machine template, as the template you are currently using is for last year's jersey style from Nike. Just a minor detail, but I think it would help sharpen up the presentation, as I think I speak for a lot of people in saying that this template has been beat to death with a shovel.

Tim, I think it would be a good idea to push yourself, just a little bit. You'd be getting much better feedback, and I think it would showcase your creativity more.

Exactly. I'm hoping this propels him to get more creative with his designs. The one thing he has going for him is the presentation, which most people lack. That's part of what drives me insane. He has the resources and skills to pull off some great stuff, but he never uses them to their full potential.

But, what good is being 'creative' with a football uniform when the end product looks gimmicky and childish, and, well, looks more like a speed skating bodysuit than a football uniform? That's not design either. Not good design, anyway. If you have to toss it in a season or two because it's not trendy anymore or it looks dated, that's a bad design, and that's what Tim is trying to avoid. I don't love his designs, and I think there are things that he could do to liven up his heritage-inspired designs, bit his core philosophy is in the right place.

I really don't mean for this to come off like an attack, but every 'creative' idea you suggested in your earlier post was bad. Really bad. Cornrow shoulder stripes and corn patterned numbers? These are grown freaking men wearing this stuff, not fifth graders.

Well it did. And once again, what do MY concepts have to do with this thread, save for the fact that I mentioned you can think outside the box and maintain tradition in doing so? Jesus Christ, guys. Can we not not like a design? Perhaps there is a conflict of design interest here-- actually, there clearly is-- but pulling out the "I know what you are, but what am I?" bull is childish.

I merely suggested he think outside the box a little more, do some things different. All the examples you showed? Yes, those utilize a bit more creativity, IMO.

I see no further point in adding C&C, anyway, because there's no intent to make edits. Why ask for comments on your design if you're going to refute everything and call it "reductive" when we ask you to step outside the traditional comfort zone, and not even make changes?

Seems really pointless to me. I'm done with this.

[TimEOBrien]

I see no further point in adding C&C, anyway, because there's no intent to make edits. Why ask for comments on your design if you're going to refute everything and call it "reductive" when we ask you to step outside the traditional comfort zone, and not even make changes?

Once again, I will probably make edits at some point in the future based on these C&C but I haven't even finished unveiling this set yet. Example: I've gotten a really good Idea from these C&C for a Wisconsin uni, but I haven't shown my Wisconsin concept yet, so that will be released before I go back and edit it.

This (too me) seems like a really logical way of doing this.

As far as reductive, Honestly, I wasn't referring to you once (although you did say that these weren't concepts in passing once and looking back at all your comments, you always seem to be writing in an rather conceited tone - intentional or otherwise). I was mostly referring to what I mentioned above, people - unlike you - who just came on and posted snide, insulting comments without trying to actually help.

Seems really pointless to me. I'm done with this.

Fine. You wanna take your ball and go home, be my guest, but don't come on here and get angry at me because you perceived a non-existent slight or didn't properly read what I wrote.

_____________

We're good.