2012 MLB Season

[vmd9]

I lived in western PA for over 20 years, and spend plenty of time there. I have more than one reason to hate the Pirates...

Mainly I can't stand bandwaggon and fair-weather fans. Every city has them, and in my case Pittsburgh was the closest and where I had to deal with the most of them.

[crashcarson15]

I lived in western PA for over 20 years, and spend plenty of time there. I have more than one reason to hate the Pirates...

Mainly I can't stand bandwaggon and fair-weather fans. Every city has them, and in my case Pittsburgh was the closest and where I had to deal with the most of them.

You can't call Western PA fans bandwagoners for rooting for a team from Pittsburgh. Sorry.

As Cleveland fans, we have no room to complain about other fanbases. We've got a team in the thick of the playoff hunt and are DEAD LAST in the majors in attendance. I don't care what personal grudges people have against the Dolans, but right now, Cleveland fans are downright horrible.

[vmd9]

I lived in western PA for over 20 years, and spend plenty of time there. I have more than one reason to hate the Pirates...

Mainly I can't stand bandwaggon and fair-weather fans. Every city has them, and in my case Pittsburgh was the closest and where I had to deal with the most of them.

You can't call Western PA fans bandwagoners for rooting for a team from Pittsburgh. Sorry.

As Cleveland fans, we have no room to complain about other fanbases. We've got a team in the thick of the playoff hunt and are DEAD LAST in the majors in attendance. I don't care what personal grudges people have against the Dolans, but right now, Cleveland fans are downright horrible.

A team that just lost a series to the BlueJays is in playoff hunt? don't think so. 90% of Indians fans know they aren't making the playoffs, and anyone who does is just delusional. They haven't been playing good baseball, and it's not fun to watch. I've been to dozens of games, but I fully understand people not going. TV ratings are up and fan support is around the city but they aren't playing like they want to win the division, and not showing that they can.

[crashcarson15]

I lived in western PA for over 20 years, and spend plenty of time there. I have more than one reason to hate the Pirates...

Mainly I can't stand bandwaggon and fair-weather fans. Every city has them, and in my case Pittsburgh was the closest and where I had to deal with the most of them.

You can't call Western PA fans bandwagoners for rooting for a team from Pittsburgh. Sorry.

As Cleveland fans, we have no room to complain about other fanbases. We've got a team in the thick of the playoff hunt and are DEAD LAST in the majors in attendance. I don't care what personal grudges people have against the Dolans, but right now, Cleveland fans are downright horrible.

A team that just lost a series to the BlueJays is in playoff hunt? don't think so. 90% of Indians fans know they aren't making the playoffs, and anyone who does is just delusional. They haven't been playing good baseball, and it's not fun to watch. I've been to dozens of games, but I fully understand people not going. If they actually start playing like they want to win the division, and start showing that they can...people will show up.

Remind me where the Blue Jays are? Oh, yeah, in the playoff hunt.

You're an idiot. A team that's 4 games out of the division lead is out of the playoff hunt? Okay, so we're probably not going to see our team make the playoffs, but why can't we allow ourselves to have some fun? They've played very well at times this year? Winning a 1-0 game just this past Friday isn't playing like they want to win the division?

Just a mere week ago, the Tribe went on a 7-3 run against the Orioles, Angels, and Rays - all potential playoff teams. That's not playing like they want to make the playoffs?

Sorry, you're the exact reason people hate Cleveland fans and the exact reason why I feel embarrassed at times to call myself a Cleveland fan.

[vmd9]

Sorry, you're the exact reason people hate Cleveland fans and the exact reason why I feel embarrassed at times to call myself a Cleveland fan.

Because I'm saying my team sucks is the reason people hate Cleveland fans? that doesn't make any sense. If you don't like people being realistic about their teams, and want to live in a freaking fairytale world, then go root for another team. People hate fans who pretend like their teams are better than they really are, which is what you are saying.

I'm glad people will have you to thank for the "Clevejacking" this time...

[crashcarson15]

Sorry, you're the exact reason people hate Cleveland fans and the exact reason why I feel embarrassed at times to call myself a Cleveland fan.

Because I'm saying my team sucks is the reason people hate Cleveland fans? that doesn't make any sense. If you don't like people being realistic about their teams, and want to live in a freaking fairytale world, then go root for another team.

No. Because all you want to do is bash other teams and other teams' fanbases before you go and give up on your team that's a mere run of wins away from being in the playoffs. Ask a Colorado fan if they think the Indians suck.

But I'm done arguing with you for the 20th time on these boards. Oh, and one final reminder who won the last Akron/Youngstown State football game before the Zips cancelled the series.

[The_Admiral]

As I've remarked in the past, Cleveland fancying itself a super-rival of Pittsburgh and Detroit is more depressing than it is compelling.

[zpqmaowl]

[Sport]

There's no reason for a city the size of Cleveland with a team that's not bad at all to be where you are in attendance. The 90's sellout streak was a fluke and the last ten years of Indians attendance figures are evidence of that.

Earlier this season when Chris Perez went off about the Indians' attendance, he was 100% correct.

[Maz]

I hope the Reds win every game for the rest of the season. Even if it is a more Anti-Pirates thing, than Pro-Reds.

why?

I'll take a wild guess, but it's because Clevelanders hate Pittsburgh.

No, as a whole, not all of us do. Only the delusional ones who support the theory of "OMG WE HATE THE STEELERS SO WE HAVE TO HATE ALL THINGS PITTSBURGH!!!!"

This is the most goddamn annoying experience as a Pittsburgh fan. It's petty and immature. Hate the Steelers? Fine, so do a lot of us half the time. Hate the Penguins? Fine. But how you can hate every team, even the ones in sports you don't necessarily care about, just because of one team is beyond me. Especially when what's happening to the Pirates (a storied small-town franchise finally crawling out of the basement after 20 years) can only be good for baseball.

[Sport]

I don't mind that the Pirates aren't terrible anymore. The Reds and Pirates used to be a good baseball rivalry (so my dad says, I'm too young to remember) and they had quite a few playoff battles up until as recently as 1990. It'd be more fun to have that back.

Plus, it's bad for baseball when markets go 20 years without having a winning team. There's an entire generation of Kansas City Royals and Pittsburgh Pirates fans who are in their early 20's who probably aren't that big of baseball fans because their team has been terrible their entire lives.

[infrared41]

There's no reason for a city the size of Cleveland with a team that's not bad at all to be where you are in attendance. The 90's sellout streak was a fluke and the last ten years of Indians attendance figures are evidence of that.

Earlier this season when Chris Perez went off about the Indians' attendance, he was 100% correct.

The 90's sellout streak was a result of...wait for it...bandwagon fans. I've been going to Indians games since 1970. Before 1994, the largest non-fireworks/opening day crowd at any game I attended was 27,000 in 1986 when the Indians were...you guessed it...winning.

[Gary]

Didn't take long for this thread to be CLEVEJACKED!

[pmoehrin]

Didn't take long for this thread to be CLEVEJACKED!

Yup.

As for the Indians themselves. If they could get a starting pitcher I think they would have a shot at competing with the Tigers and White Sox for the division crown. So that could be a great potential landing spot for Ryan Dempster. But without upgrading that starting rotation, I don't think they have a shot. That's a .500 club as is.

[Sport]

There's no reason for a city the size of Cleveland with a team that's not bad at all to be where you are in attendance. The 90's sellout streak was a fluke and the last ten years of Indians attendance figures are evidence of that.

Earlier this season when Chris Perez went off about the Indians' attendance, he was 100% correct.

The 90's sellout streak was a result of...wait for it...bandwagon fans. I've been going to Indians games since 1970. Before 1994, the largest non-fireworks/opening day crowd at any game I attended was 27,000 in 1986 when the Indians were...you guessed it...winning.

It really was the perfect storm of contributing factors that led to selling out 455 straight games.

They are:

- the team was good for the first time in 40 years. They weren't just good, they were phenomenally good. They won 100 of 144 games in 95.

- New playoff format. Previously the Indians had to deal with the Yankees, Red Sox, Tigers, Blue Jays, and other solid east coast AL teams. The new AL Central lumped them in with 4 other god awful baseball teams. For the first time in decades, Indians fans looked at their road to the playoffs and had hope. The Indians basically slept walk to a divisional title for like 5 straight years. It's fun to go watch your team when it's basically guaranteed that they're going to the playoffs.

- beautiful new stadium that replaced the worst stadium in major league history. It was the hip place to go to. Essentially, it was the hottest night life spot in town. In the 2000's a similar phenomenon happened with the Cavs.

- The Browns moved, and the Cavs sucked. Nobody was spending money on Cavs tickets and the Browns were gone so season ticket holders who previously chose the Browns over the Indians, were now Indians season ticket holders. The Indians might as well have been the only professional sports team in Cleveland at that time.

- economically stable times. Even in Cleveland the economy was doing well in the mid 90's so there was more disposable income for everyone to spend on entertainment.

- Fun cast of characters. I was a Reds fan and I grew up jealous of the success the Indians and their fans were enjoying, but I still found myself rooting for that Indians ballclub. They had a lot of likable guys. Even Albert Bell was fun because he was out of his mind.

Put those circumstances in any city and they'd respond the same way. It wasn't because Cleveland is loaded with such great fans. If anything, the sellout streak is evidence of the bandwagon city that it is.

[crashcarson15]

Didn't take long for this thread to be CLEVEJACKED!

Yup.

As for the Indians themselves. If they could get a starting pitcher I think they would have a shot at competing with the Tigers and White Sox for the division crown. So that could be a great potential landing spot for Ryan Dempster. But without upgrading that starting rotation, I don't think they have a shot. That's a .500 club as is.

The thing is, it might not take more than 86 wins to win the division. Look, there's only one way the White Sox and Indians can win the division - by keeping the number of wins to win the thing in the 80s. The Tigers are the only team with the star power to reach 90 wins, turning it on like they did last year.

I'd love to see Ryan Dempster in an Indians uniform, I just don't see them doing it. If Masterson can keep pitching like he was Friday and Jimenez can start pitching again like he was before the break, they'll have a chance. And as we've seen, all you need to do is get into the playoffs.

ALSO, McCarthy's spot on in regards to why the Indians sold out 455 straight games. Part of the reasoning for the < 20,000 average, I believe, is the immense number of fans who refuse to go to games as long as the Dolans own the team. There's a lot of people still pissed off about having to trade Sabathia and Lee, while we sit here and see other small market clubs lock up their stars (Votto and McCutchen to name a couple). But just because the ownership isn't the greatest doesn't mean you should avoid the park when you've got probably the city's best chance at a title in the next 10 years coming this year and the next two. (God damnit, 2007 team.)

[McCall]

I'm actually rooting FOR the Pirates. Of course, I want the Cardinals to win, but I want the Buccos to finish 2nd and get a Wild Card spot. Or, if the Cards aren't gonna win the Central, then I want it to be the Pirates. I remember when they were one of the best teams. I grew up when the Cards would battle them in the old NL East and then watched them battle with the Braves in the NLCS (Cheered against them in both instances, but it was great nonetheless). Back in the days of Bonilla, LaValliere, Van Slyke, Chico Lind, Jeff King, and Jay Bell. This is a storied franchise in baseball. They play in what I consider the best ballpark in the league. They have a great tradition and history of winning that has been forgotten by a new generation because of almost 20 years of losing, in an era started by alleged steroid use and seperation of teams by market size. They deserve to get back to the level they were at for so long.

[The_Admiral]

I agree. I was really pulling for the Pirates last summer, then they had that weird game against the Braves and the bottom dropped out. It was like when Wile E. Coyote would run over the cliff and only upon his realization would he finally plummet. That was their season.

[pmoehrin]

Didn't take long for this thread to be CLEVEJACKED!

Yup.

As for the Indians themselves. If they could get a starting pitcher I think they would have a shot at competing with the Tigers and White Sox for the division crown. So that could be a great potential landing spot for Ryan Dempster. But without upgrading that starting rotation, I don't think they have a shot. That's a .500 club as is.

The thing is, it might not take more than 86 wins to win the division. Look, there's only one way the White Sox and Indians can win the division - by keeping the number of wins to win the thing in the 80s. The Tigers are the only team with the star power to reach 90 wins, turning it on like they did last year.

I'd love to see Ryan Dempster in an Indians uniform, I just don't see them doing it. If Masterson can keep pitching like he was Friday and Jimenez can start pitching again like he was before the break, they'll have a chance. And as we've seen, all you need to do is get into the playoffs.

It might not, but at .500 your still going to be at least 5 games back. And I think at least one team in that division will crack 88 wins, probably the White Sox.

Right now the only two guys I have any amount of faith in for going and pitching good or decent games consistently are Justin Masterson and Derrek Lowe. Maybe Zach McAllister can do something but you really don't know what your going to get in the second half from him. So I think they have to get a starting pitcher if they are serious about competing. Just cannot have questions marks around your #3 #4 and #5 guys in terms of what they are going to give you every time out. They get Ryan Dempster it turns that rotation from being a bad one into a serviceable one.

Still not convinced it would be enough to take over either the White Sox or the Tigers, but it would give them a much better shot. As of now I don't think they really have any.

[infrared41]

Didn't take long for this thread to be CLEVEJACKED!

Only 152 pages. But the point remains.