VCU Volleyball coach says he was fired because he was gay

[thespleenenator]

http://espn.go.com/ncaa/conversations/_/id/8695613/vcu-rams-volleyball-coach-james-finley-says-was-fired-gay

What do you guys think of this? Do you think the coach is right?

[rams80]

Well, um...that VCU Athletic Director had better elaborate on his "previously stated concerns" because otherwise he is soooo ing fired. I don't know how things roll at Niagara, but Virginia Commonwealth is a Public school, so you really can't fire somebody because they are gay.

[GFB]

For a sport involving college co-eds jumping and diving for balls in spandex underwear, I can understand the concern that makes a heterosexual male coach necessary.

[dfwabel]

If your contract is not renewed, you were not fired. Firing is termination before the end of the contract term.

Keep in mind that VCU's APR was one of the worst in the NCAA under that coach's tenure (bottom 25 out of 300+ teams low) and were close to losing a scholarship in 2011 for their low rate.

[thespleenenator]

If your contract is not renewed, you were not fired. Firing is termination before the end of the contract term.

Keep in mind that VCU's APR was one of the worst in the NCAA under that coach's tenure (bottom 25 out of 300+ teams low) and were close to losing a scholarship in 2011 for their low rate.

Connecticut was banned from NCAA tournament play because of academic violations, and Jim Calhoun wasn't fired.

[dfwabel]

Correct. Calhoun quit rather than coach this season.

Neither was this guy. But some coaches at Texas Southern were in the last 18 months. That is not the point of this thread though. We do not know all the reasons why, but if the AD is new and the coach's contract is up, s/he is faces the possibility of not being retained, regardless of their one year success.

Again,

Was he fired? No

Will he be not under contract at VCU on January 1, 2013? Yes.

[NJTank]

If you ask me James Finley is stupid, ok his contract was not renewed because his teams lost that is the bottom line. Even if VCU did not retain him because he was gay unless he has stone cold proof he can not win. What he has just done is assure he will never work again in the NCAA, and it is not because his sexuality but because of this legal action. What he should have done is go about hgis business be an assistant if needed a move on like any other coach that gets fired.

[Gothamite]

Equal rights are worth fighting for. Perhaps he feels that it's worth the risk he'll be labeled a troublemaker, if so he ought to be applauded.

[IceCap]

Indeed Goth.

[rams80]

If you ask me James Finley is stupid, ok his contract was not renewed because his teams lost that is the bottom line. Even if VCU did not retain him because he was gay unless he has stone cold proof he can not win. What he has just done is assure he will never work again in the NCAA, and it is not because his sexuality but because of this legal action. What he should have done is go about hgis business be an assistant if needed a move on like any other coach that gets fired.

They were 25-6 this season. I'm not quite sure "fired for losing" flies in this situation. Again, the A.D. is really going to have to explain himself. If it's APR, say its the APR. If its the lack of NCAA bids, say it. If it's "I want to hire somebody from Niagara", say it.

Anyway, quite frankly, the "we'll help you get a coaching gig elsewhere, we just don't want to renew your contract" is kind of damning as well.

[njmeadowlanders]

Equal rights are worth fighting for. Perhaps he feels that it's worth the risk he'll be labeled a troublemaker, if so he ought to be applauded.

Of course they are, when there is a legitimate claim.

Unfortunately there are people out there though who play the discrimination card as if that is always the only reason they were fired. I'm sure more will come of this story (there has to be more to it, right?). For instance, if, despite a good record this season, they have a better option in mind to replace him, that isn't OK to come back and say "well I'm gay so you can't fire me". If you're going to make that claim you'd better be damned sure thats the reasoning behind it, and then of course you should fight for your rights.

[NJTank]

If he has proof its a different story,but he as dfwabel said was not really fired he was not renewed so he is going to need a lot to prove discrimination. I still think he would have been better off going after a new position elsewhere.

[Gothamite]

Equal rights are worth fighting for. Perhaps he feels that it's worth the risk he'll be labeled a troublemaker, if so he ought to be applauded.

Of course they are, when there is a legitimate claim.

Unfortunately there are people out there though who play the discrimination card as if that is always the only reason they were fired. I'm sure more will come of this story (there has to be more to it, right?). For instance, if, despite a good record this season, they have a better option in mind to replace him, that isn't OK to come back and say "well I'm gay so you can't fire me". If you're going to make that claim you'd better be damned sure thats the reasoning behind it, and then of course you should fight for your rights.

We'll see. The onus is now on them to provide a valid reason, since they've already said it wasn't based on his won-loss record.

If they have a reason other than he's gay and they don't like it, then let's hear it. Their silence is confirmation.

[Geoff]

If Finley has prove good for him but that's not the be all, end all. The AD can put an end to this if he just comes forward and gives a reason. Once you tell the coach it's not about W/L, you really need to elaborate. Especially when you have a person who already feels a little alienated or discriminated against.

In the end this falls on the AD, make sure you can provide a reason and cover your ass.

[dfwabel]

Before this season, Finley was 126-110 (.534) with only one NCAA tournament appearance in seven seasons.

Going into this year, there were continued issues with his team's APR. The 2011 team's APR was one point above the NCAA minimum for more than one season.

This season, he goes 25-6, but in the final coaches poll, VCU did not receive a vote!

The team RPI was #61 out of 330. The team lost to the #265, #123, and #119 teams.

Last night (Friday), I was on a VCU message board and there was one glaring post which stood out. It seems he, Finley, tried to schedule as many weak teams as possible in his non-conference schedule. He seemed to try to be like Seth Greenberg was in NCAA basketball, in having as many OOC wins as possible but still have a poor RPI yet wish to gain an at-large tournament bid.

I'll post a link, but the poster seemed much more aware of the VB program than most there (an obviously here):

I follow college volleyball on a national-level very, very closely. Let me attempt to paint perspective on a few of items of concern - #1 current level of VCU VB, #2 academic state of program, #3 "firing because [he's] gay" issue. I'll address #2 & #3 later. Sorry in advance for the formatting, but I think this is important to read if you don't know anything about college VB.

#1 - Current Level of Program

*keep in mind, conference realignment has affected volleyball (i.e. BYU and Hawai'i's move from MWC lowers that conference's power)

In general,

c

ollege volleyball does not have much parity. In this sport, there are

huge

brick walls separating the 300+ national programs into groups. There is not typically an unknown "Cinderella" who ruins the party.

My Pods:

.....a

TITLE NINER

program is "there only for the warm bodies". The school does not put resources into the program beyond the minimum required. Main goal is to provide scholarship equity for Title IX.

~25% of DI.

.....a

MIDDLER

program wins at their non-elite conference's level, but not on a national level. These programs' goals are to do well within the confines of their conference. This type of program could have a strong VB history in case of wins, conference championships or even NCAA bids, but are non-significant on the national stage.

~50% of DI

.....an

IN-BETWEENER

program is a middling program who can compete with elite programs, but are stuck in a hump securing the win. A good example is a middling team who competes in the NCAAs but does not win.

~5% of DI

.....an

UP-AND-COMER

program consistently schedules matches vs. elite programs AND recruits at a level high enough to COMPETE and WIN (inconsistent win patterns, but always competitive)

~5% of DI

.....an

ELITE

program schedules elite teams

AND WINS

(or is a CONSTANT THREAT to win if in an off-year). These teams rarely, if ever, lose to a middler or title niner (it would be news). Their bread and butter are games vs. other elite teams. Everyone else? Should win 3-0.

Around 15% of DI.

Most of the elite programs are in the elite volleyball conferences - Pac-12, Big Ten, Big XII, SEC, West Coast (they are having a spectacular year). There are a few elite programs outside of the elite conferences concentrated in the top standings of the Mountain West, Missouri Valley, ACC. There are also a few elite programs solely located in Middling conferences (i.e. Dayton).

Before Finley,

we were absolutely a Title Niner. After Perry left, we hired a stellar JUCO coach with no DI (or DII or DIII) head coaching experience in Finley (he did assist at UTEP - a title ix/middling DI program). He made us into a Middler in his first season. After his first year, where we showed signs of being an In-Betweener (our first and only NCAA appearance thanks to transfers he brought with him from JUCO), he was given more resources (in forms of staffing and generally) with the goal that Finley would then take the program to the next level (Up-and-Comer).

Since 2005, we've remained a Middler.

We never consistently fulfilled two of the three requirements for being an up-and-comer = pack schedule with elite programs and compete in/win those games. One thing Finley did well was recruit. However, he historically had big trouble retaining them.

We won a lot of games this year, but honestly? We were supposed to (should never lose to any in A-10 other than Dayton and Xavier, or Temple in a good year). We only had one significant win = NC State. Everything else? Wins vs. middlers and title niners. In volleyball, no one is grandfathered into elite status, so wins vs. Virginia and Georgetown are NOT significant.

Of greater significance, even at 12-1, VCU was no where near being considered for a ranking. At the end of the season, VCU was no where NEAR a potential at-large caliber team. Xavier, who beat us 0-3 twice this year, wasn't either after finishing #2 in the A-10 and with 21 wins.

All of this is due to bad scheduling. Who is responsible for scheduling? The head coach. Our performance this year vs. teams who "matter", and even losses to Fordham and Duquesne don't match well against anyone's claim that we had an amazing/excellent year. We've had better (volleyball is not about W-L).

How do you become elite?

It's all about who you play.

Then, it becomes who you beat. Yes - that is secondary. A team can be 30-1 and not get a sniff at an at-large bid if they did not beat elite teams along the way. Teams with jacked-up W-L records are left out of the NCAAs every single year. The brutal schedule from 2010 should've been duplicated for 2012. I remember being extremely dissatisfied with the schedule when it was released (knowing what we had returning). There was a REASON this year's VCU team went 15-2 in OOC play this year.

Lack...of....appropriate....competition.

When a coach does not schedule appropriately for a season, that's his or her fault - especially in a sport like VB where your schedule is your lifeline. Finley had to know the importance, as he has a history of scheduling well in certain years. The problem? The OOC schedule rarely matched the competition level of the team. So, when a team like 2012's needs some big elite OOC wins, they got none. When a team like 2010's, needs a schedule like 2012's, they get the toughest schedule ever in VCU history. The difficulties in managing these issues are a part of the coaching craft nowadays.

If you aren't good at managing the business side, it could lead to your demise - even if you are successful on the court.

#2 - ACADEMIC STATE OF PROGRAM

Nail and Coffin:

Since 2005, VCU has the 13th WORST APR average of all 333 volleyball programs in DI. Caused mainly by Finley's inability to retain a large number of players over the years. And we are talking a LOT. Enough said.

Stay tuned for #3 on the possible LGBT issue.......my one preview? When in business did you fail to land a meeting and

did not demand one?

If you can answer "Often", you probably aren't too sympathetic. A head coach (and I REALLY LIKE Finley) does NOT GO MONTHS without meeting with HIS BOSS. Who would stand for that?

[Geoff]

That's all well and good but you seem to be missing the point. It doesn't matter who here or on that message board argues that fervently about anything. Why won't the AD just go ahead and say it's APR related? Even if it's a lie, it's covers his ass with regards to a discrimination law suit.

[HedleyLamarr]

In the end this falls on the AD, make sure you can provide a reason and cover your ass.

....and don't bend over.