2013 NFL Off-Season Thread

[oldschoolvikings]

Looks like Greg Jennings to Vikings.

Why would he leave a first class organization with a great QB and skip out on Super Bowls in favor of this circus?

You'd think that if ANYTHING were to be learned from last time, ex Packers would know to stay the hell away from Minneapolis when they leave Green Bay; and the Vikings front office would know to stay the hell away from Packers castoffs.

That's funny, I was thinking just the opposite. I guess its a matter of perspective, but the two names the come to mind are Ryan Longwell, and (obviously) Favre. The Vikings got a lot of good years out of Longwell, and their best season as a team in a decade out of Favre. Sure, it ended on a rough note, but really that's just sports. 9 out of 10 times, a player's final season sucks... that's why its the final season. Most Viking fans I know are willing to take the crap that was '10 for the fun ride that was '09.

[STL FANATIC]

My thoughts on the Rams moves.

• Losing Jackson hurts far more from a legacy standpoint than a football standpoint, though it DOES hurt from a football standpoint as well. His touches were dramatically down from a few years ago, but he's still a beast. The Rams will now (apparently) rely on a bunch of sophomores to carry the load. They're not bad options, but there's a good amount of risk involved.

• Losing Amendola is whatever. He may have been the Rams best WR, but he also barely played. Was he enough better than who the Rams already have to justify the money? I'm fine that they decided no. Similar thoughts go to Brandon Gibson, a fine but not great WR.

You now give the reigns to 2nd year players Chris Givens and Brian Quick, as well as third year WR Austin Pettis (and certainly others behind them). Givens proved himself pretty well last year. You hope he builds on it. Quick was always expected to be a slow starter, but it was slower than hoped. By the end of the year, though, he was getting some PT and looking pretty good. One hopes he'll really come to his own this year. If they live up to their potential, you've got a bit of a burner in Givens and a guy who can get up and catch whatever is thrown his way in Quick. Pettis is more of a slot/3rd down guy. He'll help replace Amendola (along with Cook—more on him in a minute). It's another risk with young players, but that's what building teams have to do at certain positions. These guys, no doubt, have the talent to be successful. You could also see the Rams target Tavon Austin with one of their first round picks.

• Losing Bradley Fletcher hurts more than one would realize, but the Rams still have good starting CBs, and hopefully they can restock some of their depth through the draft and with lesser signings.

• Losing Craig Dahl is awesome. Losing Craig Dahl to the Niners is a blessing. Dude can make a tackle, but he can't stop a pass or catch up to a blazing WR.

• Meanwhile, the Rams added Jake Long. If he's healthy and Saffold is healthy at RT or Guard, you're talking about a really, really good line. And we know, line play is huge. Suddenly those sophomore RBs have more holes to run through, and Sam Bradford has more time to let those young WRs get open. Plus, Sam's ability to make plays with his feet is underrated. Now he'll have more time to decide what he needs to do. It's a big deal.

• Speaking of line play, the Rams already had a great defensive line, and by re-signing super sub William Hayes, they've kept it together. They should continue to terrorize opposing QBs.

• And then back to Jared Cook. Having watched footage of every play he was targeted on last year, I don't think it's an exaggeration to say this is a WR that just happens to be denoted a TE. He's a solid blocker, but he'll show up most in the passing game. He can basically do everything Danny Amendola did, but also take a hit or fight for a football. And our other TE, Lance Kendricks, really came into his own last year as both a blocker and a pass catcher. He wasn't targeted much, but he can catch and run himself.

So I'm not the least bit worried or disappointed about the Rams offseason. For one, the current Rams front office has earned my trust. But secondly, the moves make sense to me. This isn't going to be a high-flying offense. Of course I'd like another play maker. But it can be a winning offense with a great defense.

Are they good enough to take down the Seahawks and 49ers? That's yet to be seen. They were actually good enough last year (as head-to-head proved), but they weren't consistent enough to win enough games to win a division. Both the Niners and Seahawks have gotten better. But, I think, so have that Rams.

This team needs to find a couple of safeties (and there are plenty of vets and to-be draft picks available), but beyond that, there aren't gaping holes any more. That's a good position to be in entering the draft and the season.

(Sorry, no way you wanted a response that long, but that's what you got.)

[Island_Style]

I love the Long signing for you guys. Draft Tavon Austin if he is there. The Rams could really use him.

[illwauk]

Looks like Greg Jennings to Vikings.

Why would he leave a first class organization with a great QB and skip out on Super Bowls in favor of this circus?

You'd think that if ANYTHING were to be learned from last time, ex Packers would know to stay the hell away from Minneapolis when they leave Green Bay; and the Vikings front office would know to stay the hell away from Packers castoffs.

That's funny, I was thinking just the opposite. I guess its a matter of perspective, but the two names the come to mind are Ryan Longwell, and (obviously) Favre. The Vikings got a lot of good years out of Longwell, and their best season as a team in a decade out of Favre. Sure, it ended on a rough note, but really that's just sports. 9 out of 10 times, a player's final season sucks... that's why its the final season. Most Viking fans I know are willing to take the crap that was '10 for the fun ride that was '09.

I suppose it is about perspective, or at least higher expectations. The only reason Ted Thompson and Mark Murphy put pressure on Favre to make a decision is because he'd developed a habit of ending the Packers season by either throwing a bone-headed pick that even a high school B-teamer would know better than to try (2008, 2009 with the Vikes), or shytting the bed in playoff games (2001, 2002, 2004). I suppose a lot of players would find it easier to play in a place where the expectations aren't so high, especially after winning a Super Bowl.

Still, I really have to wonder about Mr. Jennings now. He grew up in Kalamazoo, where he also played football at Western, then started his pro career just on the other side of Lake Michigan in Green Bay. Now, he has a chance to live out the rest of his playing days NOT having to deal with these brutal Upper Midwestern winters he's had to deal with his entire life and he signs with... Minnesota?

[Island_Style]

BTW, I hate over hype Irsay with the passion of a thousand Christs. Just throwing that out there.

[Joshawaggie]

Looks like Greg Jennings to Vikings.

Why would he leave a first class organization with a great QB and skip out on Super Bowls in favor of this circus?

You'd think that if ANYTHING were to be learned from last time, ex Packers would know to stay the hell away from Minneapolis when they leave Green Bay; and the Vikings front office would know to stay the hell away from Packers castoffs.

That's funny, I was thinking just the opposite. I guess its a matter of perspective, but the two names the come to mind are Ryan Longwell, and (obviously) Favre. The Vikings got a lot of good years out of Longwell, and their best season as a team in a decade out of Favre. Sure, it ended on a rough note, but really that's just sports. 9 out of 10 times, a player's final season sucks... that's why its the final season. Most Viking fans I know are willing to take the crap that was '10 for the fun ride that was '09.

I suppose it is about perspective, or at least higher expectations. The only reason Ted Thompson and Mark Murphy put pressure on Favre to make a decision is because he'd developed a habit of ending the Packers season by either throwing a bone-headed pick that even a high school B-teamer would know better than to try (2008, 2009 with the Vikes), or shytting the bed in playoff games (2001, 2002, 2004). I suppose a lot of players would find it easier to play in a place where the expectations aren't so high, especially after winning a Super Bowl.

Still, I really have to wonder about Mr. Jennings now. He grew up in Kalamazoo, where he also played football at Western, then started his pro career just on the other side of Lake Michigan in Green Bay. Now, he has a chance to live out the rest of his playing days NOT having to deal with these brutal Upper Midwestern winters he's had to deal with his entire life and he signs with... Minnesota?

Jennings wanted like $15 mil a year. Packers offered $11, so he went elsewhere. I think the patriots offere like $6 or $7 then the Vikes at $9.5. He gambled and lost.

[STL FANATIC]

a fan favorite in Jackson,

Jackson made the call to void the contract-and that was primarily because he wanted a shot to win a championship (which itself could be an indictment of the Rams, but I digress)

Wanted to jump in on this one. Jackson's desire to seek that championship seem to be a secondary motivation. He's expressed numerous times he believes in where the Rams are heading (although it's entirely fair to wonder if they could get there before Jackson's career is up), and made it pretty clear his main reason for leaving is to find a situation where he could still be the primary back. And yes, if he was leaving, he also wanted that to be with a contender.

The Rams basically had cut his carries to about a third of the plays with more cuts likely coming. Most teams, especially teams with great shots at the Lombardi, aren't going to make a 30-year old RB their primary back, but the Packers and Falcons were in a position to give him at least half their carries.

But I think Jackson's reasons were 1. Depth Chart, a bit behind that 2. Winning, and well behind that, 3. Money. And it was pretty much #1 that caused him to leave.

[oldschoolvikings]

Looks like Greg Jennings to Vikings.

Why would he leave a first class organization with a great QB and skip out on Super Bowls in favor of this circus?

You'd think that if ANYTHING were to be learned from last time, ex Packers would know to stay the hell away from Minneapolis when they leave Green Bay; and the Vikings front office would know to stay the hell away from Packers castoffs.

That's funny, I was thinking just the opposite. I guess its a matter of perspective, but the two names the come to mind are Ryan Longwell, and (obviously) Favre. The Vikings got a lot of good years out of Longwell, and their best season as a team in a decade out of Favre. Sure, it ended on a rough note, but really that's just sports. 9 out of 10 times, a player's final season sucks... that's why its the final season. Most Viking fans I know are willing to take the crap that was '10 for the fun ride that was '09.

I suppose it is about perspective, or at least higher expectations. The only reason Ted Thompson and Mark Murphy put pressure on Favre to make a decision is because he'd developed a habit of ending the Packers season by either throwing a bone-headed pick that even a high school B-teamer would know better than to try (2008, 2009 with the Vikes), or shytting the bed in playoff games (2001, 2002, 2004). I suppose a lot of players would find it easier to play in a place where the expectations aren't so high, especially after winning a Super Bowl.

Still, I really have to wonder about Mr. Jennings now. He grew up in Kalamazoo, where he also played football at Western, then started his pro career just on the other side of Lake Michigan in Green Bay. Now, he has a chance to live out the rest of his playing days NOT having to deal with these brutal Upper Midwestern winters he's had to deal with his entire life and he signs with... Minnesota?

Oh, there's no doubt moving Favre out was the best move for the Packers. Obviously any Packer fan can now live with the embarrassment of those two Favre-led beatdowns in 2009, after winning the superbowl one year later. It's absolutely a trade ANY fan would make. Still, from a Viking perspective, how was it not a good temporary move? Without Favre, they would've wasted at least one or more years on Tarvarus Jackson, and with him, they came within a few illegal bounties of making the superbowl.

[illwauk]

I'm not arguing that it was a good move for the Vikings. What I was trying to say (without sounding like a complete dick) was that I'd never really considered that the expectations are low enough in Minnesota that guys who become past their prime in Green Bay could still be considered upgrades out west. By the time Brett had his "good season" with the Vikings, he'd already had that type of season so many times over in Green Bay to where it had become unacceptable... four out of five playoff seasons in the Sherman and McCarthy eras had ended because Brett got gunslingery at bad times.

[STL FANATIC]

Expectations tend to be set by (recent history). The Vikings hadn't had a really strong season in a while, and they certainly hadn't had above average QB play for a few years.

Favre gave them a season where they felt like (and really were) a contender.

That's run of the mill for the Packers the past couple decades, but that wasn't really so for the Vikings (from an outside perspective).

It's kind of like how the Yankees get pissed about a first round exit but a team like, say, the Royals would be thrilled just to get a playoff berth next year. It's not that either fan base is necessarily more or less demanding, but at a certain point years of one result set or change the expectations. (New York probably is more demanding than KC, but you get my point.)

[CS85]

Interesting factoid: If you added up all the regular season wins and losses of every team in the NFL from 2002-2012, the bottom 3 teams would be

3. Cleveland Browns (61-115)

2. Oakland Raiders (60-116)

and #1 belongs to:

1. Detroit Lions (51-125)

For a decade the Lions averaged 5 wins per season.

I wonder how much you can place the blame on the 1st round picks from 2002-2006, all of whom are out of football:

• Joey Harrington, QB
  
• Charles Rogers, WR
  
• Roy Williams, WR
  
• Mike Williams, WR
  

----------

I'd like to hear from Lions fans and Raiders fans since I don't feel like we do much around here. It was really refreshing for me to hear what Rams fans had to say about their franchise, and I think a "State of the ____" from around the league would be a nifty idea if some of you fans are willing to throw in a couple pennies.

[Burkell007]

So the patriots get rid of Brandon Lloyd? Um ok lets hope Danny & Julian along with Aaron and gronk stay healthy. Or they go after more defense then cause I'm kinda stumped on this move

[dfwabel]

Interesting factoid: If you added up all the regular season wins and losses of every team in the NFL from 2002-2012, the bottom 3 teams would be

3. Cleveland Browns (61-115)

2. Oakland Raiders (60-116)

and #1 belongs to:

1. Detroit Lions (51-125)

For a decade the Lions averaged 5 wins per season.

I wonder how much you can place the blame on the 1st round picks from 2002-2006, all of whom are out of football:

• Joey Harrington, QB
  
• Charles Rogers, WR
  
• Roy Williams, WR
  
• Mike Williams, WR
  

----------

I'd like to hear from Lions fans and Raiders fans since I don't feel like we do much around here. It was really refreshing for me to hear what Rams fans had to say about their franchise, and I think a "State of the ____" from around the league would be a nifty idea if some of you fans are willing to throw in a couple pennies.

Not making the most of your first round picks and keeping them from testing free agency are two separate, but equally difficult tasks. They are compounded if you are a bad team with high picks and are not getting better since your coaching staff is usually on a short leach and not given time. Both CLE and OAK have had voliatle coaching positions in that time frame. If you are a player exceeding your contract and the team is still bad, you are going to count down the days until you can become a free agent.

In the same period you listed, OAK did not do well with their first round picks, if they have one. It is as bad as the list I gave a couple pages back regarding MIA.

2002: Phillip Buchanon and Napoleon Harris (both out of football)

2003: Nnamdi Asomugha (UFA); Tyler Brayton (signed by CAR in 2008)

2004: Robert Gallery (#2 overall and was moved from LT ro LG; signed by SEA in 2011)

2005: Fabian Washington (Traded to BAL for a 4th Round pick in 2008)

2006: Michael Huff (UFA-Cut last week)

2007: JaMarcus Russell (#1 overall; cut in 2010)

2008: Darren McFadden (still on team)

2009: Darrius Heyward-Bey (UFA-Cut last week)

2010: Rolando McClain (surprisingly has not been cut)

2011: No 1st Round Pick

2012: No 1st Round Pick

2013: TBD (#3 overall)

[Eye]

This stat is also considering that the Raiders went 11-5 in 2002, losing Super Bowl XXXVII.

[Kramerica Industries]

Lions went 10-6 in 2011, and the Browns went 10-6 in 2007, so there are a few anomalies in there.

I'm really surprised the Rams didn't make an appearance. I remember reading that, either their 2006-2010 or 2007-2011 stretch was the worst W-L five-year stretch in NFL history, where they only won, like, three games on average a season. I know the Bucs wouldn't be bottom-three bad, since they do have an 11 win, a 10 win, and a pair of 9 win seasons following their 12-4 2002 season.

If I had to guess, the Rams and Bills are the next two on the bottom rungs of that ladder.

[rams80]

I'm really surprised the Rams didn't make an appearance. I remember reading that, either their 2006-2010 or 2007-2011 stretch was the worst W-L five-year stretch in NFL history, where they only won, like, three games on average a season.

The "Triumph of Death" era lasted from 2007-2011. Evidently the death throes of the GSOT gave the Rams enough of a win cushion to balance out that stretch, though.

*checks* 63-112-1 based on my rough math.

[STL FANATIC]

2007-2011 was 15-65 for the Rams. And yes, I believe that's the worst stretch in league history.

Keep in mind that that included one "exciting" year in which the Rams managed to go 7-9. So in the other 4 years combined, they were 8-56. Ugly.

Speaking of terrible drafting, Bernie Miklasz pointed out the other day that the Rams drafted 80 players from the 2004 draft through the present. That draft included Steven Jackson and of those 80, he is the ONE and only Pro Bowler.

The Rams appear to have drafted decent to well in 2012, and Chris Long has been on the brink of a Pro Bowl selection the past couple of seasons, so at some point that streak breaks. But still, that's crazy. (And Miklasz's point was how wasted Jackson's time was in STL by poor management.)

It's actually worse than I realized. The lack of drafting a Pro Bowl player goes back to 1999. Holy hell.

Including the 2004 class that brought Jackson to STL, the Rams drafted 80 players during his term here. Only one of the 80 made a Pro Bowl: Steven Jackson, who got there three times.

To underline the point: the Rams tabbed Holt with the sixth overall choice in the 1999 draft. Holt, one of the top wideouts of his era, was honored with seven Pro Bowl selections.

The Rams have drafted 121 players since making the Holt pick. Of the 121, only Jackson made it to the Pro Bowl as a Ram. (Cornerback Dre Bly was voted to two Pro Bowls after leaving the Rams to sign as a free agent with the Detroit Lions.)

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/columns/bernie-miklasz/jackson-stayed-strong-through-chaos/article_b8fc2a27-3b60-5bea-b7b2-939663e472a6.html

[CS85]

I should've admitted that I got the numbers from a chart that I didn't make. I should've done the legwork myself to verify the math.

[BlueSky]

NFL considering major changes to the Pro Bowl including having the captains select the teams and a few other things:

===

The source said that the NFL is considering breaking up the compensation structure for the game by halves, or even by quarters, in order to ratchet up the in-game intensity. The league is also considering adding two-minute warnings to end of the first and third quarters, to create games within the game to create tangible rewards in making every play more important. Rewards for big plays are also a possibility.

===

A nd here I thought pay-for-performance wasn't allowed.

[Kramerica Industries]

I do kinda wish plays like this were a bit more common in the Pro Bowl, just for the sake of the game seeming like an actual football game.

RIP Sean.