FAKING IT: TSN documentary on counterfeiting

[coggs]

And, I disagree about the leagues not doing a good job to protect their IP. The NFL is very protective and spends A LOT of money to protect their IP. A friend of a friend is a professional photographer and also a friend of the Tisch family. The Tisch's used to give him a field pass for all Giants and Jets home games. He had one of his pictures hanging in his store. Steve Smith of the Giants making a great one-handed catch. Someone walked in asking about different portrait packages, then asked him the price of the picture. He said, "That's not for sale. I am not licensed to sell NFL pictures." Patron said, "Good answer." Handed him a business card and said, "I am a lawyer for the NFL." Then the guy started asking him about his pics. He explained he is a friend of the Tisch's, takes the pics just for his portfolio. Will occassionally sell some to Photofile (they do not pay much, so he doesn't give them much). He'll also trade the players some of the pics for autographed stuff and the players will often hire him for private functions. Harry Carson and Michael Strahan both brought him to Canton for their inductions as their personal photographers. Justin Tuck hired him for different events he ran for his literacy foundation.

[Brass]

It's not capitalism at all. Even capitalism has laws, rules, and regulations. No matter how you try to justify it, it's illegal. I'm not saying to do or not do it, but if you choose to do it, don't even try to deny the fact that counterfeiting jerseys is illegal and supporting that knowingly means that you're supporting criminals.

Capitalism has laws? Yeah right. The idea of capitalism is to get as much money as possible and keep your rivals from making any. And don't you think they are looked at as more guide lines? Looking at wall street and the big corporations shows that laws are useless if no one follows them in a system where laws just get in the way.

Have you not heard of Super PACs, and seen how many former politicians (with no business background) end up on the boards of gigantic billionaire companies?

Nope. Never went over what Super PACs are when I was going to college for political science. What we did go over was providing evidence when making a claim, so I'll await what former politicians "with no business background" have ended up on the boards of "gigantic billionaire companies."

[Sodboy13]

So, unscientific survey, small sample size, and what have you, but we went out to the Auto Show today. And being a Sunday afternoon after a Blackhawks home game, there were a lot of people in Hawks jerseys. So I started keeping a running count of what I saw.

I counted 9 real jerseys and 20 fakes.

[nash61]

So, unscientific survey, small sample size, and what have you, but we went out to the Auto Show today. And being a Sunday afternoon after a Blackhawks home game, there were a lot of people in Hawks jerseys. So I started keeping a running count of what I saw.

I counted 9 real jerseys and 20 fakes.

How many fake Porsches? I mean seriously, no one can tell the difference, right? And it's better than spending $263,000. Who does Porsche think they are, charging that kind of money for a car? Think of the normal people who don't have that kind of money!

[DG_YouKnowWhatThatMeans]

So, unscientific survey, small sample size, and what have you, but we went out to the Auto Show today. And being a Sunday afternoon after a Blackhawks home game, there were a lot of people in Hawks jerseys. So I started keeping a running count of what I saw.

I counted 9 real jerseys and 20 fakes.

How many fake Porsches? I mean seriously, no one can tell the difference, right? And it's better than spending $263,000. Who does Porsche think they are, charging that kind of money for a car? Think of the normal people who don't have that kind of money!

There's a substitute market for expensive cars: cheap cars. And for most people who are buying Kias and Hyundais, the value proposition is there. For $15-$20,000, a Rio will do the trick as it includes four wheels, and engine and a radio.

At the same time, there's a substitute market for expensive jerseys: fake jerseys. Lots of people -- 2/3s in the Auto Show example -- don't think whatever an NHL replica goes for is a fair price. For them, eBay fills their need and they don't particularly care about the quality difference, as their jerseys has a logo, sleeves, and maybe a name on the back.

Whether it's Kia/Porche, eBay/NHL.com or Applebee's/Mortons, you end up at the same place -- people are willing to pay less for a substandard product that fills the same basic need as the high-end product. And for a lot of people, they don't even see that what they're buying on eBay to be a counterfeit jersey; they just see a good deal.

In my opinion, tut-tutting people looking for a deal is a losing argument. Wal-Mart exists for a reason, you know? Lots of people want things but don't have very much money. And fake-shaming them isn't going to change any of that. Until the NHL and NFL get their jersey pricing more in alignment with what a broader pool of people are willing to pay, counterfeiters will continue to do well on eBay.

[henchmeister]

So, unscientific survey, small sample size, and what have you, but we went out to the Auto Show today. And being a Sunday afternoon after a Blackhawks home game, there were a lot of people in Hawks jerseys. So I started keeping a running count of what I saw.

I counted 9 real jerseys and 20 fakes.

How many fake Porsches? I mean seriously, no one can tell the difference, right? And it's better than spending $263,000. Who does Porsche think they are, charging that kind of money for a car? Think of the normal people who don't have that kind of money!

There's a substitute market for expensive cars: cheap cars. And for most people who are buying Kias and Hyundais, the value proposition is there. For $15-$20,000, a Rio will do the trick as it includes four wheels, and engine and a radio.

At the same time, there's a substitute market for expensive jerseys: fake jerseys. Lots of people -- 2/3s in the Auto Show example -- don't think whatever an NHL replica goes for is a fair price. For them, eBay fills their need and they don't particularly care about the quality difference, as their jerseys has a logo, sleeves, and maybe a name on the back.

Whether it's Kia/Porche, eBay/NHL.com or Applebee's/Mortons, you end up at the same place -- people are willing to pay less for a substandard product that fills the same basic need as the high-end product. And for a lot of people, they don't even see that what they're buying on eBay to be a counterfeit jersey; they just see a good deal.

In my opinion, tut-tutting people looking for a deal is a losing argument. Wal-Mart exists for a reason, you know? Lots of people want things but don't have very much money. And fake-shaming them isn't going to change any of that. Until the NHL and NFL get their jersey pricing more in alignment with what a broader pool of people are willing to pay, counterfeiters will continue to do well on eBay.

I was about to comment using this exact same line of reasoning, but you pretty much hit the nail on the head here. People want a jersey of the team that support, they think replica and certainly authentic jerseys are way too expensive, and they see knockoffs as a reasonable pricepoint and don't care about the small details being just a bit off, nor do they care about the morality of the situation. And no matter how much shaming people do, they still won't care. Personally, I wouldn't knowingly participate, and although the differences between authentic and replica don't bother me, differences between replica and counterfeit bug the hell out of me. But I totally understand why someone who doesn't care about details and loves a good deal would be interested in knockoff jerseys.

As an example, I have a fraternity brother who has a Sergei Bobrovsky Jackets jersey with the 2010-11 10th Anniversary Patch. It's clear as hell a fake, Bob wasn't on the team in 2010-11 and the font is off for the name on the back. Does he care that it's a fake? No, not at all. Does it bother me that the details are off? You bet. Am I going to make a big deal about it? No cause I don't care what he does with his money and arguing with him would be a waste. It's simple economics in my mind, consumers think that a price for a jersey is high, counterfeiters are giving consumers that option of jerseys at lower prices albeit illegally, consumers think the price is fair (along with the other details mentioned previously) and proceed to buy more knockoffs.

(I will also admit that I once accidentally bought a Bruins hat off eBay from China because I didn't read the fine print, so I too can be bashed for participating for some extent)

[Guest]

So, unscientific survey, small sample size, and what have you, but we went out to the Auto Show today. And being a Sunday afternoon after a Blackhawks home game, there were a lot of people in Hawks jerseys. So I started keeping a running count of what I saw.

I counted 9 real jerseys and 20 fakes.

How many fake Porsches? I mean seriously, no one can tell the difference, right? And it's better than spending $263,000. Who does Porsche think they are, charging that kind of money for a car? Think of the normal people who don't have that kind of money!

There's a substitute market for expensive cars: cheap cars. And for most people who are buying Kias and Hyundais, the value proposition is there. For $15-$20,000, a Rio will do the trick as it includes four wheels, and engine and a radio.

At the same time, there's a substitute market for expensive jerseys: fake jerseys. Lots of people -- 2/3s in the Auto Show example -- don't think whatever an NHL replica goes for is a fair price. For them, eBay fills their need and they don't particularly care about the quality difference, as their jerseys has a logo, sleeves, and maybe a name on the back.

Whether it's Kia/Porche, eBay/NHL.com or Applebee's/Mortons, you end up at the same place -- people are willing to pay less for a substandard product that fills the same basic need as the high-end product. And for a lot of people, they don't even see that what they're buying on eBay to be a counterfeit jersey; they just see a good deal.

In my opinion, tut-tutting people looking for a deal is a losing argument. Wal-Mart exists for a reason, you know? Lots of people want things but don't have very much money. And fake-shaming them isn't going to change any of that. Until the NHL and NFL get their jersey pricing more in alignment with what a broader pool of people are willing to pay, counterfeiters will continue to do well on eBay.

I was about to comment using this exact same line of reasoning, but you pretty much hit the nail on the head here. People want a jersey of the team that support, they think replica and certainly authentic jerseys are way too expensive, and they see knockoffs as a reasonable pricepoint and don't care about the small details being just a bit off, nor do they care about the morality of the situation. And no matter how much shaming people do, they still won't care. Personally, I wouldn't knowingly participate, and although the differences between authentic and replica don't bother me, differences between replica and counterfeit bug the hell out of me. But I totally understand why someone who doesn't care about details and loves a good deal would be interested in knockoff jerseys.

As an example, I have a fraternity brother who has a Sergei Bobrovsky Jackets jersey with the 2010-11 10th Anniversary Patch. It's clear as hell a fake, Bob wasn't on the team in 2010-11 and the font is off for the name on the back. Does he care that it's a fake? No, not at all. Does it bother me that the details are off? You bet. Am I going to make a big deal about it? No cause I don't care what he does with his money and arguing with him would be a waste. It's simple economics in my mind, consumers think that a price for a jersey is high, counterfeiters are giving consumers that option of jerseys at lower prices albeit illegally, consumers think the price is fair (along with the other details mentioned previously) and proceed to buy more knockoffs.

(I will also admit that I once accidentally bought a Bruins hat off eBay from China because I didn't read the fine print, so I too can be bashed for participating for some extent)

Similarly, no matter how much shaming people do, smokers won't care, and smoking kills you, so I don't see counterfeiting or people buying fake products ending anytime soon. (Rolax Watches, anyone?) I think the most success the NBA (and other leagues) can hope for is that counterfeiting (jerseys at least; tickets are a whole other mess) would be minimal here in the States, but there's no way that basketball fans from third-world countries (who will never visit the States in their lifetime) would stop buying fake jerseys if an authentic jersey would go for $500 USD, which is maybe more than they would make in a year.

I don't condone it, but it's a supply and demand issue. If there was no demand (or, as mentioned, people out there seeking a good deal), there would be no market for counterfeited merchandise. There's a reason why people all want selfies with their favorite celebrity or athlete nowadays; well, two reasons: 1) everyone can afford a decent smartphone with a decent camera, and 2) autographs can be easily faked.

Also, low quality fakes is the deal-breaker here. In a way, Mitchell & Ness products are "fake," they are just authorized, licensed and legal fakes. Fine: "reproductions." They used to be a great attention to detail, which is why there was such a cult following or at least admiration and respect toward the company. Now, not so much, IMO.

In no way do I think the NBA should stop going after counterfeiters to protect their IP and a product they spent so much time and money growing. If there ever reaches a point where it costs too much to go after these criminals (some who are in it to make a living and others to support terrorist activities), then they would/should either let the market make a correction and lower the prices, or raise the price even more so as to fund their anti-counterfeiting efforts. Even back in the mid-1990s, when authentic jerseys went for $100-120, it was already more than I could afford. Remember when people got shot over their $100 Air Jordans? Imagine how many people would stupidly hesitate to give up their $300 jerseys (or $600 iPhones), even when their lives are at stake? But I digress.

Sorry for the rant, but this is a very interesting topic. That said, I do feel sorry for people who paid $300 for what they thought WAS an authentic jersey but either, 1) ended up getting a knockoff, or 2) getting a knockoff that was so good experts couldn't tell the difference.

[BigBubba]

Look, I'd love it as much as anyone here if knockoffs became such a threat to jersey manufacturers that they lowered prices. But that's not going to happen. Why? There's such a massive price gap between real and fake jerseys that no realistic amount of price slashing will convert knock-off buyers into authentic-buyers. Even if leagues hacked prices down to $100 (about half of what MLB and NHL jerseys go for), that would still be two to three times more expensive than knockoffs. They'd lose way more money by cutting the price that low than they'd gain from fans who decided that $100 was an acceptable price to pay...you'd have to literally double jersey sales to justify such a cut.

[Guest]

Well put, Big Bubba. Also, it's not like Adidas is paying minimum wage for these jerseys to get made. If they did, and were made in America, then at least the pricepoint would be justified. Still unaffordable, but understandable. The money it takes to make an $300 "authentic" (still not procut) jersey is probably the same as the $30 jersey. Or if it's less, then it's even more disgusting.

[OnWis97]

Look, I'd love it as much as anyone here if knockoffs became such a threat to jersey manufacturers that they lowered prices. But that's not going to happen. Why? There's such a massive price gap between real and fake jerseys that no realistic amount of price slashing will convert knock-off buyers into authentic-buyers. Even if leagues hacked prices down to $100 (about half of what MLB and NHL jerseys go for), that would still be two to three times more expensive than knockoffs. They'd lose way more money by cutting the price that low than they'd gain from fans who decided that $100 was an acceptable price to pay...you'd have to literally double jersey sales to justify such a cut.

Pretty much. My gut (it's all I have) says that if $300 jerseys went down to $100, most people spending $30 to $60 would still purchase the fake. For all the justifying of counterfeiting based on the greed, the counterfeit prices really would prevent the leagues from making a lot of money.

Look, these garments are expensive. In my opinion, the quality of licensed replicas has PLUMMETED since the 1980s and 1990s. I have a couple of really sharp replicas from that era. Now, I'd pay much more for a crappy product. That is why I don't buy any jerseys any more. (that and my age). Despite my age, yeah, I'd like to have a couple of more jerseys; more current jerseys for games. Do I DESERVE one? No. So I have to decide whether to splurge on such a thing. I don't.

I don't dispute that costs(authentics)/quality (replicas) are not where they ought to be. I don't dispute that the leagues are asking for money that most people don't have. So what? A lot of stuff is too expensive. I'd like a really, really sharp suit that costs a couple of grand. I'd like an iPad. Why don't I just go an take 'em? Oh, yeah; likelihood of getting caught. That's the biggest difference between "general theft" and "IP theft". Music downloading was pretty low-risk. Going into a store and stealing a CD was pretty high-risk. I honestly cannot think of another reason that illegal downloading was so much more prevalent than shoplifting CDs.

There is one difference between illegal downloading and purchasing counterfeit jerseys: The former is stealing and technically, the latter is not...I don't think it's illegal to purchase/own a fake. (Correct me if I am wrong). So when knowingly purchasing this crap, you are simply helping to keep the counterfeit marking going, or, "supporting" IP theft. Without the buyers, there would be no such theft, but the producers are taking the legal risk. I personally cannot support it. If you want to, great. But don't pretend you are doing something noble or sticking it to "the man." You're just getting a low-cost jersey (and accepting the garment's imperfections). You are doing it for yourself.

Someone above made an interesting point about "capitalism" and I tend to agree with him; capitalism is essentially the absence of IP protection. Of course, it's also the absence of laws preventing me from walking into a store and stealing an authentic jersey (the best of both worlds: cheap and high-quality). Laws (i.e., government) intervene where the market fails. And we all tend to disagree on when it fails. We seem to agree that laws are needed to stop us from walking into stores and brazenly taking stuff without paying. Those laws create incentive for retailers to sell stuff without the risk of losing their shirts to thieves. Similarly, IP laws allow for people (musicians, artists, designers, IP owners) to have incentive to create; without them, the creator would do all the work while the leaches would reap the benefits. With counterfeit jerseys, leaches are reaping some serious benefits. (and that is a part of it for me; I would really have to plug my nose to give money to someone who did nothing more than (poorly) copy someone else's property. It really bugs me to see people making money that way)

[coggs]

Look, I'd love it as much as anyone here if knockoffs became such a threat to jersey manufacturers that they lowered prices. But that's not going to happen. Why? There's such a massive price gap between real and fake jerseys that no realistic amount of price slashing will convert knock-off buyers into authentic-buyers. Even if leagues hacked prices down to $100 (about half of what MLB and NHL jerseys go for), that would still be two to three times more expensive than knockoffs. They'd lose way more money by cutting the price that low than they'd gain from fans who decided that $100 was an acceptable price to pay...you'd have to literally double jersey sales to justify such a cut.

Not sure I agree. If authentics were ~$150 and replicas ~$75, you would see a major decrease in knock-offs. Obviously, some will still pay the $30-50 for the knock-off for various reasons. However, I think many would be willing to pay the extra $40 for the better quality replica and some will pay $150 for the authentic.

I was at Rangers-Islanders Monday night. Definitely saw more knock-offs (for both teams) than official jerseys. It was that bad.

[coggs]

In no way do I think the NBA should stop going after counterfeiters to protect their IP and a product they spent so much time and money growing. If there ever reaches a point where it costs too much to go after these criminals (some who are in it to make a living and others to support terrorist activities), then they would/should either let the market make a correction and lower the prices, or raise the price even more so as to fund their anti-counterfeiting efforts. Even back in the mid-1990s, when authentic jerseys went for $100-120, it was already more than I could afford. Remember when people got shot over their $100 Air Jordans? Imagine how many people would stupidly hesitate to give up their $300 jerseys (or $600 iPhones), even when their lives are at stake? But I digress.

Sorry for the rant, but this is a very interesting topic. That said, I do feel sorry for people who paid $300 for what they thought WAS an authentic jersey but either, 1) ended up getting a knockoff, or 2) getting a knockoff that was so good experts couldn't tell the difference.

I honestly think it is at the point that the leagues are losing money in the attempt to protect their IP. For most who buy knock-offs, I do not think it is a choice between buying the $40 knock-off, the $100-125 replica, or the $250+ authentic. I think it is they will buy the $40 knock-off or not buy anything. A few times, I have bought knock-off t-shirts in parking lots while tailgating. Can specifically remember twice buying a Giants shirt, a mets shirt, and 3 different concert shirts. But, these instances did not prevent me from buying a licensed shirt. Guy came around, thought the shirt was cool, so for $10 I grabbed it. I wouldn't have paid $20. Maybe you can argue, that instead of buying the $40 knock-off jersey, they might buy a licensed t-shirt for $20, but even that is not a guarantee. Even if it was, is that really what they are going for? Stop the $40 knock-off so people will buy a $20 t-shirt? I know money is money, but it seems like they are spending a dollar to make a penny. Before the winter classic, I read an article about law enforcement confiscating $25,000 worth of knock-off winter classic merchandise. My first thought was "$25,000 worth" according to whom? Did they value a knock-off jersey the same as an authentic? Second thought was how much money was spent in order to take this $25,000 worth off the street? Pretty sure it was a lot more than $25,000. Third thought was how much did this impact the league's bottom line? Thinking not too much.

I understand the idea and reasoning for protecting the IP and spending money to do so. I think A LOT more people would try to produce knock-off merchandise if they believed they wouldn't get caught and the last thing they league wants is every Tom, Nick, and Harry making counterfeit merchandise. But, I think they are going overboard.

BTW, I also think it is time to legalize drugs and part of my reasoning is the money spent to prevent the drug trade is ridiculously high, yet dealers are still able to sell their product.

Not sure if any of you are familiar with this site: http://www.the7line.com/ They started off making Mets themed shirts without using any of the Mets trademarks. Well, their stuff was pretty creative, their business grew, they started getting a lot of attention. Now, they have a license agreement with MLB and can use the trademarks and also sell merchandise inside Citi Field. It is not quite the same as knock-offs, but you could argue they were taking money out of MLB's pocket. Mets fans could buy and wear their stuff, show they are Mets fans, yet not give their money to the Mets or MLB. There was nothing MLB could do to stop it so as the old saying goes, if you can't beat 'em, join 'em.

[Guest]

I honestly think it is at the point that the leagues are losing money in the attempt to protect their IP.

I think they're gonna start lobbying Congress to have take taxpayers money to protect their IP.

[coggs]

I honestly think it is at the point that the leagues are losing money in the attempt to protect their IP.

I think they're gonna start lobbying Congress to have take taxpayers money to protect their IP.

Not sure if you are serious about this, but pretty sure congress would laugh at them.

[guest23]

I honestly think it is at the point that the leagues are losing money in the attempt to protect their IP.

I think they're gonna start lobbying Congress to have take taxpayers money to protect their IP.

Not sure if you are serious about this, but pretty sure congress would laugh at them.

Uh no congress will listen to anything if the price is right. Anyone remember SOPA? It was drafted by the entertainment industry to grant them the authority to subpoena records and take down entities completely on their own volition who they deemed culpable in IP piracy. It almost passed.

[OnWis97]

We've talked a lot about counterfeit jerseys but "Faking it" was also about tickets and autograph memorabilia. I would never buy autographed memorabilia because even if I cared about it, I would not trust anything as legit unless it came straight from the team or something.

But tickets. I think real tickets have priced themselves out of the market and the market for phony tickets is just filling that gap. I have been to 15 Timberwolves games this year and have not paid once. My friend, a computer programmer nerd, has figured out how to make these tickets himself...so he's got 10 "Season Tickets." So I go to some of the games with him and we just sit in open seats (usually of the above-average variety). When I tell people about this, they look at me funny but consider this:

· Despite not truly having our own “seats”, there are always no-shows and if these rich jerks can no-show a $150 ticket, then it’s bad for the team if people like us don’t play the “seat filler role”. We’re just helping the team’s image.

· The prices for the real thing are absolutely exorbitant.

· I will not pay $150 for a ticket but I will pay less for the same experience.

· The NBA and the Timberwolves are a big evil mega corporation. And poorly run at that. They owe me after bungling away all those draft choices.

· Sometimes I buy a hotdog.

· Most of you speed.

I wish my buddy would do this with Twins tickets but he’s not that into baseball.

[Brass]

I honestly think it is at the point that the leagues are losing money in the attempt to protect their IP.

I think they're gonna start lobbying Congress to have take taxpayers money to protect their IP.

Not sure if you are serious about this, but pretty sure congress would laugh at them.

Uh no congress will listen to anything if the price is right. Anyone remember SOPA? It was drafted by the entertainment industry to grant them the authority to subpoena records and take down entities completely on their own volition who they deemed culpable in IP piracy. It almost passed.

It didn't "almost pass" at all. If I remember correctly, there wasn't even a vote on it by the House. It was postponed with heavy, heavy support against the bill.

I wish politics was like astrophysics; those who don't know anything about it wouldn't talk about it.

[AnPheitseog]

We've talked a lot about counterfeit jerseys but "Faking it" was also about tickets and autograph memorabilia. I would never buy autographed memorabilia because even if I cared about it, I would not trust anything as legit unless it came straight from the team or something.

But tickets. I think real tickets have priced themselves out of the market and the market for phony tickets is just filling that gap. I have been to 15 Timberwolves games this year and have not paid once. My friend, a computer programmer nerd, has figured out how to make these tickets himself...so he's got 10 "Season Tickets." So I go to some of the games with him and we just sit in open seats (usually of the above-average variety). When I tell people about this, they look at me funny but consider this:

· Despite not truly having our own “seats”, there are always no-shows and if these rich jerks can no-show a $150 ticket, then it’s bad for the team if people like us don’t play the “seat filler role”. We’re just helping the team’s image.

· The prices for the real thing are absolutely exorbitant.

· I will not pay $150 for a ticket but I will pay less for the same experience.

· The NBA and the Timberwolves are a big evil mega corporation. And poorly run at that. They owe me after bungling away all those draft choices.

· Sometimes I buy a hotdog.

· Most of you speed.

I wish my buddy would do this with Twins tickets but he’s not that into baseball.

That's why I buy almost exclusively from stubhub, because the prices for say, your timberwolves game, is about 15-20$ for most games,

[coggs]

We've talked a lot about counterfeit jerseys but "Faking it" was also about tickets and autograph memorabilia. I would never buy autographed memorabilia because even if I cared about it, I would not trust anything as legit unless it came straight from the team or something.

But tickets. I think real tickets have priced themselves out of the market and the market for phony tickets is just filling that gap. I have been to 15 Timberwolves games this year and have not paid once. My friend, a computer programmer nerd, has figured out how to make these tickets himself...so he's got 10 "Season Tickets." So I go to some of the games with him and we just sit in open seats (usually of the above-average variety). When I tell people about this, they look at me funny but consider this:

· Despite not truly having our own “seats”, there are always no-shows and if these rich jerks can no-show a $150 ticket, then it’s bad for the team if people like us don’t play the “seat filler role”. We’re just helping the team’s image.

· The prices for the real thing are absolutely exorbitant.

· I will not pay $150 for a ticket but I will pay less for the same experience.

· The NBA and the Timberwolves are a big evil mega corporation. And poorly run at that. They owe me after bungling away all those draft choices.

· Sometimes I buy a hotdog.

· Most of you speed.

I wish my buddy would do this with Twins tickets but he’s not that into baseball.

Wait, your friend knows how to make his own tickets for free that get him into the arena? 1) probably not something you want to post on a message board. 2) your friend gets caught, he is going to jail. hope you are not with him when he does.

besides, I didnt watch the segment, but I would think it was more about buying fake tickets outside arenas or on craigslist and then getting denied at the entrance.

[OnWis97]

FYI, my Timberwolves ticket story is not true.

Regarding buying tickets outside of the arena, I'd NEVER buy a home print-out. That seller probably printed 10 of 'em and only one will get in.