NFL Merry-Go-Round: Relocation Roundelay

[Soarindude]

Portlandians are some serious weirdos

Says the guy from... Florida?

We're a different kind of weird.

[Evil G]

Florida and Arizona aren't states, they're retirement homes.

[STL FANATIC]

New Interview with Davis:

http://blogs.mercurynews.com/kawakami/2014/03/08/mark-davis-on-the-raiders-oakland-stadium-talks-its-not-moving-real-fast-and-i-dont-know-whether-its-moving-fully-in-the-right-direction/

That doesn't sound great for Oakland if this thing lingers. Davis doesn't appear to be playing hard ball. He's not not talking (like Kroenke) and he's also not outright threatening a move. He's saying he really wants to stay but he's worried about how things are going and he's almost ready to start exploring plan B.

It's almost impossible to know how to read these guys, but at this point the Raiders may be the closest to moving. But they also may be the closest to having a stadium agreement in place. A tipping point I suppose you'd call it.

[Gothamite]

It is interesting to consider the different approaches. Davis is taking his case to the media, while Kroenke is reportedly sitting way back, not even taking the governor's phone calls.

I'd still say the Rams are more likely to move, since they now have land they could put a stadium on. If Oakland won't give Davis a stadium, would he really build his own elsewhere?

[STL FANATIC]

Oh I don't think so. I'd anticipate him partnering with one of the proposals, but that's a fair point of an obstacle that would still be in his way (and one that isn't in Kroenke's).

It is interesting to compare the approaches. I'd say there's a third approach that nobody is currently taking which would be the hardline threats about moving. Minnesota started to go that route before working out their deal.

Kroenke is on the complete opposite end of the spectrum by saying nothing but acting in a manner that gives him plenty of options. And then Davis seems to be in the middle. Talking openly about the possibilities, but not making threatening overtures.

Davis may well know exactly what he's doing, and trying make threats without actually making them. But he comes off as if he's just being genuinely honest to me. Spanos of the Chargers has a similar approach.

[Gothamite]

I think you're right. And it is interesting that nobody's doing the hard threats at the moment.

[DarkJourney]

Mark Davis is a nut. I see him all the time at my local drug store buying bottles of cough syrup. I'm serious.

[CubsFanBudMan]

Dolphins owner to pay for $400 million in stadium renovations himself:

http://m.cbssports.com/s/36896/24?arenaAbbr=all&arenaName=Home&articleId=24476923&teamId=415&leagueId=59&newsType=arena&platform=webapp

[STL FANATIC]

Further proof that owners with a stadium need and attendance issues sometimes still just like where they are and will ultimately pony up.

[colortv]

Well, let's keep in mind the Dolphins are a marquee franchise in a major market. Teams don't usually relocate in those instances.

[STL FANATIC]

I'm not sure what makes the Dolphins are marquee franchise other than they were once supremely good 38 years ago and have been around a long time. The Rams used to be in a major market, too, but they moved.

I figured that would get brought up, but I still think the comparison is valid. I still believe that it's primarily due to the fact that most people didn't grow up with the Rams in St. Louis (and they've rarely made noise on the field) that people are so okay predicting their relocation while they considered the possibility that the Vikings could somehow leave Minnesota or the Dolphins leave Miami nearly impossible.

But major market or not, Miami isn't a great sports market. (It's a fine one. A very up-and-down/bandwagon one.) The Dolphins are the one example of real long-term support in that market, and yet they really are having attendance issues.

It's not that I think relocation of the Dolphins was ever going to happen, I just think there's a double standard here. Why is it absurd that Kroenke might want to stay in St. Louis and would put up $400-600 million to do so, but a no-brainer that Jeff Ross would do it in Miami?

[IceCap]

Because Jeff Ross doesn't have a sadium sized plot of land in LA? And that his team doesn't play in an out-of-date dome?

Anyway it's silly to compare the St. Louis market to the Miami market. Especially when it comes to the NFL. St. Louis being a great baseball town doesn't mean it suddenly trumps Miami in importance when it comes to the NFL.

I also think that people want to see the Rams back in LA due to how they left. However you want to look at it, that move was accomplished under dubious circumstances.

[STL FANATIC]

Of course the Rams path to LA is clearer. But that doesn't mean Kroenke wants to move any more than Ross would. What I'm calling out as silly is how people perceive intentions of the owners. It's been stated that Kroenke would be silly to want to stay in STL if he had to pay much, but of course it's just assumed the teams that have been in their cities since people were kids would want to stay there.

I also wasn't comparing the markets of St. Louis and Miami. All I said was that Miami is an okay sports town and has had struggling attendance with the one team they're known for consistently supporting. Miami's a bigger market than St. Louis. Miami has better attendance than St. Louis. But an amazing market or a market without struggles it is not.

And I think you may be right about that being another motivating factor. But that just adds to my point. People have these reasons for why they think the Rams should go back to LA, and none of them have anything to do with the why the Rams will or won't go back to LA.

The Rams stadium needs major updates or to be replaced. The Dolphins stadium needs major updates or to be replaced. Both teams are bottom 3rd in attendance over the last 3 years.

One guy paying himself seems to be considered a no-brainer, while the other paying a similar amount is considered impossible. That's what doesn't make sense to me.

[Gothamite]

Miami

St. Louis.

C'mon, man. I'm from Milwaukee. I'm sympathetic to mid-size Midwestern cities. But really?

[IceCap]

One guy paying himself seems to be considered a no-brainer, while the other paying a similar amount is considered impossible. That's what doesn't make sense to me.

Kroenke's playing hardball, to the point where he's ignoring the governor's calls. No one negotiates the way he's negotiating only to say "ok, I'll spend $400-600 I don't have to in order to stay in St. Louis."

[STL FANATIC]

One guy paying himself seems to be considered a no-brainer, while the other paying a similar amount is considered impossible. That's what doesn't make sense to me.

Kroenke's playing hardball, to the point where he's ignoring the governor's calls. No one negotiates the way he's negotiating only to say "ok, I'll spend $400-600 I don't have to in order to stay in St. Louis."

1. The report about ignoring the governor's calls has been refuted. That's not to say it's true or false, but I wouldn't put a great deal of stock into that report.

2. But what if that's exactly what he has to pay to stay in St. Louis. Why is it so inconceivable he might be looking for the best deal he can get IN ST. LOUIS, and will accept it when he believes he has it?

That's the part I thought was the double standard. I think I mucked that up by sounding like I was directly comparing the markets. My point was sometimes owners like where they are and will look for the best deal they can get in the market, and when they believe they've exhausted their options and their leverage, then they'll take it whatever it is.

As always, we don't know if that's Kroenke's perspective. I'm just saying it's clearly not an unreasonable one for an NFL owner to have.

[Gothamite]

When was it refuted? I missed that.

[STL FANATIC]

In those Kevin Demoff radio interviews a few weeks back.

[Gothamite]

Thanks for the reminder - I hadn't listened to those at the time, but I'm going back now. I found this great one from mid-February, in which he most certainly does not refute the report.

And boy, for someone who decries "parsing" language, he's very good at it. But he doesn't refute the facts.

Host: First of all, as I mentioned before the break, in… three years from now, as you prepare for free agency in 2017, where is the franchise going to be located?

Demoff: I expect it'll be right here in St. Louis. I don't see any reason that can't be so. Everything we do is always focused on getting better and growing the fanbase here. And I think you’ve been part of that. You were at the event at Rams Park on Friday night, as part of the St. Louis Sports Trivia, you were there with the St. Patrick’s Center. There’s no reason to hold events like the St. Patrick’s Center Sports Trivia Night at Rams Park on Friday night if you’re thinking about anything else except trying to grow the fanbase here. And it was a fantastic event, we got a lot of people through the building. Everything we do as an organization is focused on growing our fanbase. And I think if you look at our track record over the past few years, it’s hard to point to anything, aside from the stadium noise, that indicates that we aren’t doing everything possible to make this a better fan experience, a better football team, and a better emotional experience for our fans. I understand the noise. I get that. But at the same time you’d be hard-pressed to point to any of our actions here that would challenge that.

Host: I agree with that, and I’ve mentioned that many times on the show. Number two, what should we then take out of Stan Kroenke’s land purchase in Los Angeles?

Demoff: I think - I think the Commissioner said it best. Stan is, you know, a real estate person, he buys land all the time, he owns land throughout the country, he’s one of the largest land owners in the US, and I think this was bought in the course of his normal business. That being said, obviously the mere mention of Southern California raises eyebrows, but no one, you know, worries that he’s building a stadium in some of his other Southern California interests or that land, uh - I know no one’s speculated on him buying land in Montana for a stadium -

Host: (laughs) Right.

Demoff: - I think Bernie mentioned it in passing. You know, and I - I recognize this one, you know, touches a nerve a little bit different, but Stan has the right, you know, to run his business outside of the Rams however he sees fit. You know, I think - when you look at it, the Commissioner said it best. Stan does these things on, you know, an annual basis, on a daily basis, that’s part of his business, everything that the Commissioner sees, is our focus is on St. Louis, and trying to grow the fanbase, and trying to win here. So I - I think you’re trying to put one and one together and get three, is a stretch - again, until there’s clarity in the stadium situation, everything’s, you know, going to raise stress levels, you know, raise paranoia, I think all of that makes perfect sense. And you would want that. You don’t want apathy, you know, towards these things, but at the same time I think it’s different than if you had an owner who wasn’t in the real estate business buying land.

Host: Right.

Demoff: That’s a - that's a departure from their normal daily behavior.

Host: Sure.

Demoff: I promise you, Stan is looking at lots of pieces of land around the world right now, and none of them are for football stadiums.

Host: Any of them in St. Louis?

Demoff: Ah, you know, I - that’s a good question-

Co-Host: It’s a great question! (laughs)

Demoff: -great question. (laughs) Thankfully he doesn’t discuss his real estate business with me on a daily basis, because I know nothing.

Host: Yeah. One other quick one here - because Jim Thomas had reported that he had heard that Stan Kroenke was rejecting the overtures and phone calls from the governor of the great state of Missouri, Jay Nixon. Can you address that?

Demoff: You know, I think we have great communication, you know, with the CVC, with the governor’s office, I don’t know where Jim heard that from, I don’t know his sources, it doesn’t make any sense to me, obviously Jim believed it enough to report it, and I’m not saying that Jim’s wrong - you know, I - this is a game of telephone.

Host: Mmm.

Demoff: And when you say “Jim Thomas said he heard from sources who heard from the governor’s office”, you know, now you’re three steps removed. And I think you’re looking at something that's very elongated - I know we’ve had very good conversations, you know, very open dialogue, you know - this is not a new process. This really goes back to 2012 and the start of the arbitration, it goes back, you know, before then and preparation, you know, for the arbitration, but I also say: even if there were good substantial conversations, I wouldn’t be here talking about them.

Host: Mmm.

Demoff: To me, you don’t negotiate these things in the public. It is way - you know, this is the third rail. Building sports stadiums, it causes a lot of angst among fans, it causes angst among people who don’t use the stadiums, our viewpoint has always been if it’s good for St. Louis, it’ll be good for the Rams. I think you’ve heard us say that before. You know, when it comes to this there are a lot of people who can come together but it’s best done working on this behind closed doors, not in the public, not at the point where people can - can twist words and parse words, and I think that’s what you’re getting, you know, with the land purchase, with the Jim Thomas statement -

Host: Yeah.

Demoff: You’re getting a lot of people reading into things that, you know, aren’t there necessarily to be read into. And, you know, I think this is one of those things - we don’t often talk about it, and I know Stan doesn’t talk about his land purchases very often, that’s probably not a -

(laughing, overlapping)

Demoff: smart thing, if you’re a real estate buyer, you know, conversations between the governor and Stan should stay between the governor and Stan.

Host: Sure.

Co-Host: Fair.

Demoff: And unless one of them wants to speak out on that, I would leave it that way.

Host: Did you find out about the land when we did? Or did you have an idea this story was about to break, and did you drop your head like “Oh, my God, here we go again?”

Demoff: Well, you know, I - I equate it to - I knew about the purchase, you know, obviously we had gone through, you know - the Commissioner had known, this wasn’t designed to be a secret.

Host: Yeah.

Demoff: It could have been kept a secret for much longer than seventeen days from the final transaction - there’s nothing to hide here.

Host: Right.

Demoff: And I think that’s one of the key takeaways from this. We’re - we’re being up-front, we confirmed that Stan and his companies did buy the land, you know, obviously I know that it sets off, you know, some level of worry among fans

Host: In both states. Right.

Demoff: But here -here’s the truth. We did three season-ticket holder luncheons the week before the Super Bowl. We did three season-ticket holder luncheons at the end of December. The first question in all of them was the stadium. Right? So this isn’t something that’s far from people’s minds, it’s not like the - the land purchase set off, you know, worries about this. We’ve always said - I was in here in December and January saying this - this is the hardest year to message as the team. It’s the first time you’re year-to-year. And I think that’s the biggest worry of people. I remember the Chargers went year-to-year, people freaked - team, Chargers had training camp in Los Angeles for two years -

Host: Yeah.

Demoff: - you know, at the Home Depot Center, and the - the world was ending, their team was moving, and they’re still in San Diego. I think there are lots of stops and starts to these things. I never, uh, get downtrodden about trying to build our fanbase. It’s our job to build a winning product, to put a winning product on the field, to improve the fan experience, and - and to make this a place that people want to come and be a fan of. And sure, would it be easier if we didn’t have the stadium issue? A lot easier. But I came here in 2009 -

Host: Yeah.

Demoff: - and the first questions people asked in 2009 were about the stadium -

Host: Right.

Demoff: - and the impending arbitration. This hasn’t been far from people’s minds, and I think that’s the reason - we need to come up with a solution that solves this once and for all because I don’t want this to be a topic five years down the road, ten years down the road. Kicking the can down the road doesn’t help. We need to come up with a solution that - one very good positive I’ve taken away from the past few weeks is that people genuinely care, there are a lot of civic leaders who care, there are more people who have popped out of the woodwork saying, you know, “What can we do to help” than in the previous three years combined.

Host: Just make sure that can has a retractable roof. Just my opinion.

Co-Host: If that was - whether it was, or was not meant to be a shot across the bow, it acted as one.

Demoff: I think one of the things - people care. People care about the Rams here. Our fans care, they’re passionate about the Rams, they want to see a winner, I think - (overlapping) you know, what Jeff and Les have done the past few years in this product, they see we’re on the cusp, and they want to be part of it. They want to experience it, and I think there have been some really lean years here in the past few years, but, you know, I think one of the things when you look at - three of the past four years we’ve won seven games. I know that that’s not a great level of success compared to other franchises around the NFL - it’s a far cry from what was here the previous few years. We won back-to-back - we had back-to-back winning seasons at home the past year, that’s the first time that’s happened since 2003-2004. When you look at all the metrics of this team, on the field, I think it has people excited. They want us to break through and get to that next level, and - I promise you, nobody wants that more than our building, our players, our staff. But I think the real angst here is this isn’t the team that won three games, two games, one game, and all we need to make sure we say - this is a team that people see is on the rise -

Host: On the way up.

Demoff: - they see as being competitive, and they want to feel a part of it, they want, you know, to be involved, and our - our job is always to build that emotional investment, the emotional commitment, and once we can remove the stadium aspect from what I think people will see this for, the football team, you know, they - John Clayton’s out there saying, you know, we’re Super Bowl contenders in 2014, and John Clayton’s the wisest man I’ve ever met in my life.

Host: Yeah, smart guy, right?

Demoff: So - so let’s give him -

Co-Host: A lot smarter now, right?

Host: The average passionate Rams fan, right? Are they making a mistake taking Stan’s silence as he’s disconnected?

Demoff: I - I think they make a huge mistake. And I always point this back to, you know, I first saw this in 2011, we were going through a tough season, you know, and - all I heard from the internet, the media, fans, was: When’s Stan Kroenke gonna talk about, you know, potential changes, you know, on the coaching staff, potential changes in the front office, and you didn’t hear anything. And it was, you know, “he’s not connected, he’s not engaged.” He was very engaged, very involved, you know, wanting to make sure we got it right, and we were the first team, you know - as much as I hate to say it, on Black Monday, ‘cause it was an unfortunate day, you know, for a lot of close people we worked with - we were the first team, you know, after the 2011 season, to make a change the next morning. And that brought Jeff Fisher and Les Snead, and that was what people, you know kept saying - I remember seeing, you know, Randy on television with (local Fox sports anchor) Marty Kilcoyne saying, you know, in mid-December “If this team isn’t calling Jeff Fisher right now, and working to bring this guy in, they’re morons.” Well, we’re - we didn’t say anything the next day to say “Hey Randy, maybe you’re right” (laughter), but here we sit going into Year Three with Jeff Fisher.

Host: (laughter) Thank God you didn’t do that.

Demoff: It’s a great thing. So I - I look at that as Stan, you know, when you look at this team, it’s not all that different. It’s not like when we’re winning you see him out, leading the charge, you know, and saying “We did this” or you see with the other teams. He has a very, you know, firm policy. He’s going to let - hire the right people, let them run the team, let them be the spokespeople, and he’ll make sure that everything is working behind the scenes. I think you see with the Colorado Avalanche this year, in their turnaround, you know the Nuggets have a streak of nine years in the playoffs, Arsenal, very much people were outspoken about wanting change, they’re at the top of the table in the English Premier League, this is not a person who likes losing, and who isn’t accustomed to having success, and they - I can’t think of a better person to be running the organization than Stan Kroenke.

I've listened to a few other interviews from around that time, but I haven't found one in which he specifically states "the report is incorrect, Stan has been talking to the governor." I'm still listening to what I can find though, so if you have one, I'd love it if you'd point me to it.

[STL FANATIC]

No, you're right. I don't recall him ever definitively calling the report incorrect.

He says it doesn't make sense to him and says they have had conversations with the Governor's office, but obviously isn't going to give details.