NFL Merry-Go-Round: Relocation Roundelay

[STL FANATIC]

Heres a news video from KSDK-5 in St. Louis. Shows more stills of the proposal, including one of the video board.

http://www.ksdk.com/sports/article/300963/6/CVC-makes-124-million-bid-to-upgrade-dome-keep-Rams

[STL FANATIC]

As for my comments on the judge, it's not a fact, but I think it stands to reason that a government employed judge is going to side more with his constituents and his fellow government workers than with a billionaire looking for more money. If the judge has something against sports and giving any public money to them, that could change. That's a bit of a wild card, but it'd probably be political suicide for him to do so.

What? Sorry, the idea of beholding a judge to a political constituency still baffles me. Especially when it comes to something like this.

I was thinking more along the lines of the politicians that appoint him who will likely support the CVC's endeavor.

Yeah, but aren't said politicians term limited? I'm not quite sure there's that much to fear retribution wise.

Maybe I shouldn't have said political suicide because that implies it would be consciously done out of fear. I just think there's a good chance the judges will side with these politicians. Not because they're afraid of them, just because they're more on their side of the fence so to speak.

[STL FANATIC]

I can't give it a real source, but a member who posts on the STLtoday.com forums and has always seemed extremely knowledgable and informed says he's under the belief that the CVC itself still has about $60 million left in its budget as discretionary funds. That's not to say they'd want to just pour all of that money into this thing, but it means there is some money available without the need for extra public funding AND the CVC could take out loans relatively easily with that sort of collateral. Obviously there would be interest, but the point is that the CVC does ITSELF seem to operate on a surplus rather than a deficit. That's a positive thing.

[DaytonBlue]

I can't give it a real source, but a member who posts on the STLtoday.com forums and has always seemed extremely knowledgable and informed says he's under the belief that the CVC itself still has about $60 million left in its budget as discretionary funds. That's not to say they'd want to just pour all of that money into this thing, but it means there is some money available without the need for extra public funding AND the CVC could take out loans relatively easily with that sort of collateral. Obviously there would be interest, but the point is that the CVC does ITSELF seem to operate on a surplus rather than a deficit. That's a positive thing.

I will so add that it has only recently come out in the last day or so that there are 12 specific criteria which must be in the top quarter, as opposed to the entire stadium itself. What those criteria are is mostly a secret between the CVC and the Rams right now.

[rams80]

I can't give it a real source, but a member who posts on the STLtoday.com forums and has always seemed extremely knowledgable and informed says he's under the belief that the CVC itself still has about $60 million left in its budget as discretionary funds. That's not to say they'd want to just pour all of that money into this thing, but it means there is some money available without the need for extra public funding AND the CVC could take out loans relatively easily with that sort of collateral. Obviously there would be interest, but the point is that the CVC does ITSELF seem to operate on a surplus rather than a deficit. That's a positive thing.

I will so add that it has only recently come out in the last day or so that there are 12 specific criteria which must be in the top quarter, as opposed to the entire stadium itself. What those criteria are is mostly a secret between the CVC and the Rams right now.

It would be hilarious if "age" was one of them.

[DaytonBlue]

They'll have to give the dome botox injections to make it look younger!

[STL FANATIC]

Full proposal here: http://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/stltoday.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/9/73/9733fd6c-4d4f-11e1-bd5e-001a4bcf6878/4f2a05937835d.pdf.pdf

[STL FANATIC]

I've only read one page, but it spells out the criteria for top-tier, and it sounds more and more to me like the CVC knows what it is doing. This is not unattainable stuff by any means, and because it's been upgraded over the past 16 years, it's very conceivable.

(a) the Box Suites, Suite Concourses and related amenities (exclusive of the quantity of such Box Suites beyond the currently schedule amount plus the area around the northern end zone);

( the Club Seats, Club Lounge, Club Concourses and related amenities (exclusive of the quantity of such club seating beyond the currently scheduled amount plus the convertible club seats);

©stadium seating (exclusive of the quantity of such seating);

(d) stadium and Playing Field lighting and sound and communication systems;

(e) stadium scoreboards, computer systems, video boards, video systems and other communications media (whether presently known or unknown);

(f) advertising infra-structure in, on and around the Facilities, including Exterior Marquees as defined in Annex 2;

(g) concession facilities and equipment and service and preparation areas;

(h) common areas, entrances, lavatories (including without limitation concourses other than the Suite and Club level concourses, hallway lighting, first aid stations, and related event patron amenities), public safety, fire alarm and protection areas, security services, signage, facilities and equipment;

(i) Facilities support equipment (including without limitation turnstiles, maintenance equipment), Facilities vertical transportation (including without limitation event patron elevators, service elevators, VIP elevators, escalators, ramps, etc.), mechanical, electrical, plumbing, HVAC and related equipment and systems;

(j) NFL Franchise football-related team facilities (including without limitation locker rooms, coaches rooms, training rooms);

(k) the Playing Field as defined in Section 3.14.1;

(l) electronics, telecommunications and computer systems, box offices and ticket printing and taking equipment, ticket accounting and control systems;

(m) the physical structure of the Facilities;

(n) Facilities Management (as hereinafter defined in Section 3.1.1) of the Facilities, including without limitation, NFL Game Date preparation and NFL Game Date services and personnel; and

(o) Maintenance of the Facilities

[STL FANATIC]

And the CVC's reasoning for the funding break down...

Limitation To First-Tier Proposal For Items Generally Provided By NFL Franchisee

Before addressing the specifics of CVC's preliminary plan, there is an important limitation that must be raised.

The Amended Lease provides that "It is also acknowledged and agreed that the determination of whether or not this First Tier standard has been met shall not include a a comparison to an item in such stadia if such item is generally provided for in the stadia by NFL franchisees at the sole cost and expense of the NFL franchisees."

This language limits CVC's obligation for new construction or renovations to the extent the items included in those improvements are generally paid for by the NFL franchisee in other stadia. CVC has researched the franchisees' contributions to the new stadia built and/or stadia significantly renovated since the last measuring date in 2005. This data indicates that NFL franchisees have been solely responsible for generally providing (on average) fifty-two percent (52%) of the costs and expense of the items included in these stadia projects. Therefore CVC is only obligated under the Amended Lease to undertake an/or provide funding for forty-eight (48%) of the improvements in the first tier proposal that follows.

[Gothamite]

Well, of course the CVC's document makes it sound like they know what they're talking about.

The real test will be to see if the Rams accept all of CVC's assumptions about what's needed and who should be paying for it. I'm expected the CVC to lowball as their opening gambit, but not this low.

[STL FANATIC]

Well, of course the CVC's document makes it sound like they know what they're talking about.

The real test will be to see if the Rams accept all of CVC's assumptions about what's needed and who should be paying for it. I'm expected the CVC to lowball as their opening gambit, but not this low.

I meant as far as the requirements. Until now we didn't have the specific language on how the dome is supposed to be first tier. Now we do. And I think the CVC's proposal is very reasonable about fulfilling that. This isn't lowballing by any means. It's a good faith first bid. It'll grow from here, but this will be a great starting point.

If Kroenke wants to go to LA, he can make that happen, but if that's an alternative rather than a desire, then this should get worked out in the next few months.

[Gothamite]

I agree that it's nice to see specific language from the lease, but I would like to see more of it.

This is the section I found most illuminating:

Limitation To First-Tier Proposal For Items Generally Provided By NFL Franchisee

Before addressing the specifics of CVC’s preliminary plan, there is an important limitation that must be raised.

The Amended Lease provides that “It is also acknowledged and agreed that the determination of whether or not this First Tier standard has been met shall not include a comparison to an item in such stadia if such item is generally provided for in the stadia by NFL franchisees at the sole cost and expense of the NFL franchisees.”

This language limits CVC’s obligation for new construction or renovations to the extent the items included in those improvements are generally paid for by the NFL franchisee in other stadia. CVC has researched the franchisees’ contributions to the new stadia built and/or stadia significantly renovated since the last measuring date in 2005. This data indicates that NFL franchisees have been solely responsible for generally providing (on average) fifty-two percent (52%) of the costs and expense of the items included in these stadia projects. Therefore, CVC is only obligated under the Amended Lease to undertake and/or provide funding for forty-eight (48%) of the improvements in the first-tier proposal that follows.

Sounds very reasonable on the part of the CVC. Until you actually read it, since that's not what the quoted passage says.

The quoted section says, in essence, that elements are exempted from "top tier" evaluation if it's something that teams usually pay for. So if NFL teams traditionally pay for 2 out of the fifteen listed components in other stadiums, the Dome will only be evaluated using the remaining 13 components. It does not say that because teams customarily pay for 52% of new stadiums, the Rams have to pay for 52% of the renovations to the Dome.

Halfway through that last paragraph, the CVC swaps all the goalposts around. That's what I mean when I say this doesn't appear to be a good-faith effort, and I expect the Rams' lawyers to have a field day with it. Unless, of course, there's some other language obligating the team to pay for renovations that the CVC forgot to include here.

[STL FANATIC]

I agree that the CVC lumped it together and that it will be negotiated. I don't agree that it was anything other than good faith. If NFL stadiums and stadium renovations are traditionally split 52/48 on the costs with little specification of who is covering what element, does that cancel out that part of the lease? I think it makes sense. You can't specify that team traditionally pay for suites while facilities traditionally pay for scoreboards (unless you can--I sure can't). So this is the next best thing, breaking it down overall just as other funding efforts in the league have done.

Now, I don't expect 52/48 to fly. If arbitration was binding, I think it could, because I think it fulfills the lease. But arbitration isn't binding, so Kroenke can ask for more or just leave. I expect he'll ask for more. But I think you'll see the Rams cover 25-45% of the funding when it's all worked out.

[STL FANATIC]

Take it for what it's worth, but on his radio show today, St. Louis media member Bernie Miklasz noted that his sources close to the Rams said they were pleasantly surprised by the proposal. A counter-offer is still very much appreciated, and he made no predictions for how this will play out.

But I think there's a big misconception out there that the Rams are expecting the world from the CVC.

[DaytonBlue]

I feel pretty good about this opening offer, especially after seeing the proposal in its entirety (at least as much as the public gets).

We know Stan will counter-offer. When/if we find out what that offer is, we will probably have a pretty good idea if he wants to negotiate or if he wants LA. If he demands a new taxpayer stadium or $300 million in dome upgrades, the Rams may as well buyout the lease and move this summer. If he wants to negotiate the percentage the CVC pays or perhaps add some other elements to the renovation, we have a pretty good chance of working something out.

A couple rumors I've heard as well:

-The 52/48 split has already been negotiated between the CVC and Rams (doubtful IMHO).

-That split was worked out because that's what the CVC has saved up and could provide without having to find another funding source (which allows Mayor Slay and others to keep his word that no new money will be used without a public vote, which I think is the law now anyways).

If Stan wants to stay, I feel like it would be in his best interest to get a deal done by May 1st when season ticket holders have to commit to the next season. I know my father is on the fence about renewing (more because of the team's play than anything), but if he knew improvements were coming to the dome and the team was staying people like him might give them a chance to turn the team's fortunes around.

[bosrs1]

First issuance of G-4 funds happened today. The Niners will be receiving 200 million from the NFL. It's the last piece of the funding for the Santa Clara stadium.

http://blog.sfgate.com/cityinsider/2012/02/02/49ers-get-200-million-from-nfl-to-build-santa-clara-stadium/

[rams80]

Well, of course the CVC's document makes it sound like they know what they're talking about.

The real test will be to see if the Rams accept all of CVC's assumptions about what's needed and who should be paying for it. I'm expected the CVC to lowball as their opening gambit, but not this low.

For example. Most top tear stadia have seats that actually are the color of the teams that play in them. The red seats remain in the proposal.

[rams80]

Take it for what it's worth, but on his radio show today, St. Louis media member Bernie Miklasz noted that his sources close to the Rams said they were pleasantly surprised by the proposal. A counter-offer is still very much appreciated, and he made no predictions for how this will play out.

But I think there's a big misconception out there that the Rams are expecting the world from the CVC.

That's great.

When it comes to the Rams, Bernie is the Prince of Lies and Misinformation. A rabblerouser from the era of yellow journalism.

More importantly, Bernie's sources got sacked with the fall of House Shawmunt a couple of years back.

/The Rams' pleasant surprise is that this offer makes an offer of $250 million to just make the lease go away now and move actually seem reasonable.

[juiggisee]

[sPAM]

[Gothamite]

When it comes to the Rams, Bernie is the Prince of Lies and Misinformation. A rabblerouser from the era of yellow journalism.

More importantly, Bernie's sources got sacked with the fall of House Shawmunt a couple of years back.

/The Rams' pleasant surprise is that this offer makes an offer of $250 million to just make the lease go away now and move actually seem reasonable.

Hell, this proposal would make that seem downright generous.