McCall Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 1 minute ago, GDAWG said: That is what I have been trying to say. The BIG 4 all have home markets and that is what makes them different than NASCAR, PGA/LIV, ATP and UFC and its why I don't consider NASCAR a major sports league rather a major sports organization. But I guess I have different views of what a league is compared to others. It may be the wording. Major Sports TOUR is a little more obvious. All are organizations, to an extent. Quote https://dribbble.com/MakaioCall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCall Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 1 minute ago, Cujo said: This is about America. "The Big 5" -- please remember the topic at hand. No kidding. In America, MLS is a major league, and not just because it's in their name. You had them listed as a minor league due to their world status. So... sarcasm or hypocrisy? 2 Quote https://dribbble.com/MakaioCall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GDAWG Posted February 15 Author Share Posted February 15 2 minutes ago, McCall said: It may be the wording. Major Sports TOUR is a little more obvious. All are organizations, to an extent. Is NASCAR a major sport? It is, I was never saying it wasn't. I was saying it wasn't a league, but yeah a Major Sports Tour is the right word. UFC, ATP and PGA are the same. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCall Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 Just now, GDAWG said: Is NASCAR a major sport? It is, I was never saying it wasn't. I was saying it wasn't a league, but yeah a Major Sports Tour is the right word. "Tour" and "League" seem to be best ways to differ the organizations while still acknowledging their major status. Quote https://dribbble.com/MakaioCall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cujo Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 Just now, McCall said: No kidding. In America, MLS is a major league, and not just because it's in their name. You had them listed as a minor league due to their world status. So... sarcasm or hypocrisy? Just because MLS has the words "major league" in it doesn't make it a major league. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCall Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 10 minutes ago, Cujo said: Just because MLS has the words "major league" in it doesn't make it a major league. No s#!+. That's why I mentioned it. You're just contradicting yourself left and right now. 1 Quote https://dribbble.com/MakaioCall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sykotyk Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 3 hours ago, Cujo said: Just because MLS has the words "major league" in it doesn't make it a major league. 19 of the U.S. MLS teams have stadiums built for them. Columbus is already on their second stadium built for them. For a sport that can conceivably play in any rectangular outdoor stadium they've commanded that many investments into having their own venues. And those that haven't usually have some deal where their owners already own the NFL venue in their host cities. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cujo Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 Just now, Sykotyk said: 19 of the U.S. MLS teams have stadiums built for them. Columbus is already on their second stadium built for them. Minor league baseball teams don't have their very own stadiums? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sykotyk Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 2 minutes ago, Cujo said: Minor league baseball teams don't have their very own stadiums? Minor league baseball teams aren't major league in any sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cujo Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 1 minute ago, Sykotyk said: Minor league baseball teams aren't major league in any sense. Nor are Major League Soccer teams. Scroll up to my take with margarine box. And saying MLS is "Big 5" solely because they have their own stadiums, right after I compared MLS to MiLB -- where all 200 teams have their very own stadiums?! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sykotyk Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 4 minutes ago, Cujo said: Nor are Major League Soccer teams. Scroll up to my take with margarine box. And saying MLS is "Big 5" solely because they have their own stadiums, right after I compared MLS to MiLB -- where all 200 teams have their very own stadiums?! MiLB has an entire league superior to them in the same country. AHL must be a major league, too, then right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cujo Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 Just now, Sykotyk said: MiLB has an entire league superior to them in the same country. And so could MLS. Some uber rich dude could fire up a soccer league in the States. And without taking any MLS talent, only acquiring talent from other leagues around the world, could easily overtake MLS in supremacy. You absolutely cannot say the same for NFL, MLB, NBA or NHL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GDAWG Posted February 15 Author Share Posted February 15 4 hours ago, McCall said: "Tour" and "League" seem to be best ways to differ the organizations while still acknowledging their major status. Two of them actually have "Tour" in their name too (PGA and ATP). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sykotyk Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 1 hour ago, Cujo said: And so could MLS. Some uber rich dude could fire up a soccer league in the States. And without taking any MLS talent, only acquiring talent from other leagues around the world, could easily overtake MLS in supremacy. You absolutely cannot say the same for NFL, MLB, NBA or NHL. And if/when that ever were to happen, it would supplant MLS as the major league. But it hasn't, and most likely wouldn't. Throw in the fact that FIFA wouldn't sanction the league and most players would be leery of then joining a renegade league such as that. But for the sake of argument, it would have to happen. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cujo Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 2 minutes ago, Sykotyk said: Throw in the fact that FIFA wouldn't sanction the league Ohh, you don't know FIFA then. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCall Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 8 hours ago, Cujo said: And so could MLS. Some uber rich dude could fire up a soccer league in the States. And without taking any MLS talent, only acquiring talent from other leagues around the world, could easily overtake MLS in supremacy. You absolutely cannot say the same for NFL, MLB, NBA or NHL. That's not the determining factor of what constitutes a "major league". MLS is the top level league of soccer in the U.S. It's widely regarded and accepted as a major league, even if it's not on the same level as the Big 4 in terms of world rankings within their respective sports. You're the one who's going back and forth between using other leagues around the world as a barometer and saying their irrelevant since we're talking about America. I get it, being confusing is your schtick, but every explanation you make is just sadder than the last one. 3 Quote https://dribbble.com/MakaioCall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBTV Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 In addition to it being the highest-level and highest-paid level of competition that people can play, a true "global" major-league needs to have global appeal, while an American major-league needs to have national appeal. MLB, NBA, NFL, obvious locks. MLS - highest level of play in the US, I'd argue that it's achieved a pretty high level of national appeal (even if it pales in comparison to the previous 3), so I could see giving it that status (even if it's not even close to the top level globally). Still have guys barely scraping by financially, so fair or not, many people aren't going to view it as "big league" if guys are making sub 100k salaries. Hell - many people's threshold is much higher. NHL - still higher than MLS, but mostly (IMO) because of its history in many of its markets in North America, and Gretzky kinda bringing national attention to it. But it's still barely in the conversation with the first three. NASCAR - forgetting whether it's even a sport or not, it completely fails the national appeal test. It's more like 3+1+1, or 3+2. If fractions aren't allowed, I'd say there's only a big 4, but MLS is very close to entering the chat with NHL. 2 Quote "The views expressed here are mine and do not reflect the official opinion of my employer or the organization through which the Internet was accessed." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBTV Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 18 hours ago, Ferdinand Cesarano said: Regarding the WNBA, a site called Sportsnaut says that the average salary is $147,745, and that the minimum is $64,000. Business Insider puts the average at $113,295 and the minimum at $62,000. Either way, that's enough to live on. So for me that league qualifies as a major league. I guess it depends on your definition of "live". That's certainly fine in much of flyover land and in country areas far outside of cities, but not enough for any desirable area of a big city, and not enough for home ownership in many cities. Quote "The views expressed here are mine and do not reflect the official opinion of my employer or the organization through which the Internet was accessed." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaGrandeOrange Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 I know Canada is on the outside of this conversation clearly, but any conversation about the NHL needs to reference the fact that it's the biggest league here (even though both NFL and NBA are cutting in), and we are roughly a part of the market we're referring to. The NHL has a tricky position where it's the biggest (non-NFL) team in probably as many markets as any other league, but has the least "neutral" appeal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Cesarano Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 54 minutes ago, BBTV said: 19 hours ago, Ferdinand Cesarano said: Regarding the WNBA, a site called Sportsnaut says that the average salary is $147,745, and that the minimum is $64,000. Business Insider puts the average at $113,295 and the minimum at $62,000. Either way, that's enough to live on. So for me that league qualifies as a major league. I guess it depends on your definition of "live". That's certainly fine in much of flyover land and in country areas far outside of cities, but not enough for any desirable area of a big city, and not enough for home ownership in many cities. I live in New York City, and I am willing to reveal that I earn somewhere in the neighbourhood of the minimum salaries named in both those stories. That's definitely enough to live on even here, in one of the most expensive cities in the country. Can you live large and take annual cruises to Europe? No. But you can maintain a comfortable lifestyle if your habits are modest and sensible. On MLS: we've long since passed the point where the top MLS teams are worth more than the bottom NHL teams. Right now, all but five MLS teams hold that distinction, with the top MLS team being more valuable than half of the NHL's teams. Despite anyone's fantasies to the contrary, MLS is a major league in the U.S. and Canadian sports landscapes. On the broader point of what organisations are even to be considered: no one can deny that auto racing, tennis, and golf are huge sports. But they are not leagues. The premise of the question seemed to me to obviously rule out individual sports. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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