Big Unit to the Bronx

[wheateater]

Wheateater, if the Blue Jays spent the all the money to get big free agents would you be complaning? No, you would be excited because as fan of theam your chances of winning goes up and as a fan that is what you want. You want your favorite team to win.

How can you complain about Yankee fans being excited about getting Randy Johnson because if the situation was turned around you would be just as excited.

If the Jays had the ability to spend money like the Yankees and Red Sox, I would be a little happier since I'd know they could compete, but I still would not like the direction free-wheeling like this is sending MLB.

Since I'm a fan of the Jays, I know from Day One that they have no chance. Every fan of the Jays realizes that. I wonder if any of you Yankee fans have ever experienced that? Honestly, do you know what that's like? The Yankees can build from within; they've shown that to some extent. But if that doesn't work, they can also go and "buy the bar," thereby leaving everyone else in the dust to suffer. Teams like the Jays are forced to try and build from scratch, but once the player hits the beginning of his prime (like Vernon Wells or Roy Halladay), there is little to no chance for the team to resign him. Therefore, he ends up going to NY. I wonder how many years before Wells and Halladay find themselves in pinstripes? THAT'S what pisses me off about the Yankees. 2/3 of the teams in MLB are relegated to being farm teams for the big spenders, and the only way anyone of those farm teams have even the slightest chance is to placed in a division with equal or lesser competition (i.e.- AL Central, AL West in some years). But if there's the duopoly of the Yankees and Red Sox, why should Jays, O's, or Rays fans even bother?

If you Yankee lovers wanna be happy, go ahead. That's your right. But don't say plop about me complaining until you've walked in my shoes.

[CaolinaJoe]

His way won 2 WS back in the 70's and none since.  Good old fashion development won the other 4.

Well, Actually those first 2 were won the same way as the other 4. Those players came from the farm and George was hands off for the first few year. Then FA started and george was able to get just 2 big pieces in hunter and Jackson. Outside of those 2 players the rest came from farm or thru trades. So that makes 6 championships under George from the farm.

Munson and Guidry were the only 2 important players, that I can recall, that were Yankee farm guys. The rest came through trades, which usually involved lots of cash going back to the other team. That's the way teams bought players before Free Agency started, prospects and cash.

So in an essence he bought those 2. The other 4 were built by baseball guys while he was suspended. He has failed to buy one since coming back, and has been embarassed in 3 others.

[Shmee]

If you Yankee lovers wanna be happy, go ahead. That's your right. But don't say plop about me complaining until you've walked in my shoes.

Right then. You keep on bitching about how sad you are about the fact that your team can't (or won't?) compete, and I'll keep on making fun of you for it.

Lest ye start toa ct too much like a martyr, I'll remind you of something. Between 1981 and 1994, the Yankees did not win a single postseason series, because they didn't make the playoffs during any of those years. During that time span, your beloved but supposedly incompetent Blue Jays won two World Series rings, and played in five League Championships along the way.

Seeing as you're four years older than me (and for some reason, call me "boy"), this all happened during your lifetime. Sounds like a case of "What have you done for me lately?" to me.

Yankee fans have been there, and now we have the opportunity to celebrate because we have an owner who's willing to spend to improve his team. Sorry buddy.

[wheateater]

If you Yankee lovers wanna be happy, go ahead. That's your right. But don't say plop about me complaining until you've walked in my shoes.

Right then. You keep on bitching about how sad you are about the fact that your team can't (or won't?) compete, and I'll keep on making fun of you for it.

Lest ye start toa ct too much like a martyr, I'll remind you of something. Between 1981 and 1994, the Yankees did not win a single postseason series, because they didn't make the playoffs during any of those years. During that time span, your beloved but supposedly incompetent Blue Jays won two World Series rings, and played in five League Championships along the way.

Seeing as you're four years older than me (and for some reason, call me "boy"), this all happened during your lifetime. Sounds like a case of "What have you done for me lately?" to me.

Yankee fans have been there, and now we have the opportunity to celebrate because we have an owner who's willing to spend to improve his team. Sorry buddy.

Yes, but between 1981 and 1994, money was not as necessary as it has become today. Salaries were reasonable and teams competed based on a balance of management competence, coaching, scouting, and pure results on the field. Today, that equilibrium is still required, but money separates the "haves" from the "have nots." Every team had the chance to compete at that time because $200-million payrolls were only visions dancing in Steinbrenner's head. In essence, baseball was a completely different entity at that time. Prior to 1994, it was actually a sport. Lest ye forget who was first overall in MLB in 1994: the Montreal Expos, another Canadian team that actualy competed in that era.

But then it all fell to pieces. That little thing called a "strike" stopped the season and cancelled the World Series, one in which the Expos seemingly had a great shot at winning. Maybe you're too young to remember the effects it had, but the last 10 years have been among the worst experienced by MLB. Take this for example. Since then, tell me how much salaries have risen. Tell me how many division titles have been won by the Jays. Tell me how many ALCS and WS appearances the Yankees have. Tell me what happened to the Expos. Where has all the parity gone?

Since you brought up 1994, let us just compare our favourite teams in the payroll department since the strike-shortened season (MLB rank in parentheses):

(from USA Today.com Salary Database)

1994: New York Yankees, $44.785M (1); Toronto, $41.938M (2).

1995: New York, $46.657M (2); Toronto, $49.791M (1).

1996: New York, $52.189M (1); Toronto, $28.487M (16).

1997: New York, $59.129M (1); Toronto, $45.895M (9).

1998: New York, $63.160M (2); Toronto, $48.415M (16).

1999: New York, $88.131M (1); Toronto, $48.165M (14).

2000: New York, $92.938M (1); Toronto, $46.363M (21).

2001: New York, $112.287M (1); Toronto, $76.896M (10).

2002: New York, $125.929M (1); Toronto, $76.864M (11).

2003: New York, $152.750M (1); Toronto, $51.269M (21).

2004: New York, $184.194M (1); Toronto, $50.017M (21).

TOTAL: New York, $1.022B (avg. $92.923M); Toronto, $564.1M (avg. $51.282M)

Do the math. After all, you take algebra and such in high school, right? Let me save you the trouble by telling you that the Yankees payroll has increased EVERY YEAR and by 411% in the last decade. The Jays? Save for a couple years of "excessive" spending, they have maintained the status quo. The saying goes, "$50 million just doesn't go as far as it used to," and it's quite true here. And keep in mind that much of the Jays' payroll since 2001 was written out in cheques to Carlos Delgado (and where's he now, by the way?).

All that being said, I am grateful that I can somewhat recall the back-to-back World Series Championships of the Jays in 1992 and 1993. But I know that we'll never see another banner raised at SkyDome as long as Steinbrenner and a few others spend as freely as they want, while the majority of teams steadily hope that they'll pull out a miracle, make the playoffs, and manage to thwart The Boss' attempt for another year.

[JQK]

I love the Yankees.

They are just a better franchise, run by a better owner.

The rest of the league should accept their spot behind New York and Boston, and just be proud they can play on the same field as these titans of sport.

(Just trying to piss the roobs off.)

I am happy to see this deal though. We needed pitching, and now we got it.

[fiasco!]

as a tigers fan, everything the yanks do irks me.

but, they are doing it all within the rules.....i just wish ilitch would open up his damn checkbook like steinbrenner does.

[Saintsfan]

Actually I don't think it does any sport any good if only one or two teams can win the championship, thats one of the reasons the NFL is good at the moment, several teams have the chance to win the Superbowl, however in baseball, its getting more and more unlikely that some teams will ever be able to win the world series again. And its not all to do with owner stinginess, Realistically, how many teams can match the Yanlees or Red Sox wage bill at the moment and keep there teams head above water. sure the Tigers could spend enough for a short period of time, but what then? maybe the end of the Tigers. I think a salary cap in baseball would do so much to improve the league. Much better than contraction if you ask me, which in the long run might be the other option.

[jkrdevil]

I would like to clear up a few things.

First the NFL is not popular now due to parity. The reason the NFL is popular is the way it is set up. With most of the games on 1 day once a week, it makes gameday an event. If baseball and hockey were set up that way it would be just as popular (or in baseball's case it might even be more popular than football is now). The NFL was just as popular back in the 80's and early 90's when the 49ers, Cowboys, Redskins, and Giants spent freely. For nearly 10 years 1 of those 4 teams won the Super Bowl every year. That didn't hurt popularity of the NFL. The NFL is popular because of promotion not parity.

Second, the 94 strike did not kill the Expos. The Expos attendance sucked for the 10 years before 94. Had the strike not happened the Expos might be in Montreal for 2 extra years. Also, the Expos had a few competitive season since 94. Remember in 2002 they finished in second place in the NL East. And in 2003 they finished above .500. Considering the low revenue they had because fans didn't show up they put good teams on the field. Maybe they would have made the playoffs and won the World Series a few times had the fans gone to the games. They would have had the money to get the final piece. That's why the Pos are in Washington because no one went to the games and montrealers only have themseleves to blame for them being in Washington now.

[CC97]

Remember in 2002 they finished in second place in the NL East. And in 2003 they finished above .500. Considering the low revenue they had because fans didn't show up they put good teams on the field. Maybe they would have made the playoffs and won the World Series a few times had the fans gone to the games. They would have had the money to get the final piece.

I don't think you can blame Expos fans from staying away in 2002 and 2003, can you? Actually in 2003 after they made some moves at the deadline (White, Colon) the fans started showing up (something around 25,000 per game) but then the team had a homestand in Puerto Rico, and Rondell White had to be traded, and that was it.

The GM of the Expos from 2002-2004 tried to put a winner on the field, but he wasn't allowed to do much. In fact the Expos were not allowed to call up any minor league players in September in those seasons because they were not allowed to add any salary to the payroll.

[jkrdevil]

Ok, but how about the years before MLB owned them?

[CC97]

Ok, but how about the years before MLB owned them?

The only thing I can really point to is the stadium, but you've heard my Olympic Stadium horror stories before.

[IceCap]

Does George break the rules? NO

So what's the beef? he's doing exactly what any owner in his position would do......SPEND TO WIN.

when was the last time the yanks won the series?

[wheateater]

...the 94 strike did not kill the Expos. The Expos attendance sucked for the 10 years before 94. Had the strike not happened the Expos might be in Montreal for 2 extra years. Also, the Expos had a few competitive season since 94. Remember in 2002 they finished in second place in the NL East. And in 2003 they finished above .500. Considering the low revenue they had because fans didn't show up they put good teams on the field. Maybe they would have made the playoffs and won the World Series a few times had the fans gone to the games. They would have had the money to get the final piece. That's why the Pos are in Washington because no one went to the games and montrealers only have themseleves to blame for them being in Washington now.

But if you knew your team had no chance at even making the playoffs, would you spend your hard-earned money to go watch them?

That's another obstacle confronting Canadian (and some American) teams. Ticket prices are skyrocketing so owners can keep paying their players the $15 million they want. And Canadian fans pay for tickets in Canadian funds but the owners pay their players in American dollars. Now that the loonie is approaching 85 cents, it's not as bad as it was just a few years ago when it was drowning around 60 cents US.

And it's not just in baseball, either. Every sport does this (particularly hockey), but if you want to go to every home game of your favourite team, unless you sit in the upper-upper deck, you're going to be forking over a lot of cash. Most normal 9-to-5-workin' people can't do that. So, in the Jays' case, if a "field level bases" seat at SkyDome costs you $37/game, if your team's payroll is a mere $50 million US, and if they're in the same division as high-rollers like the Sox and Yankees, is there a point? Why not stay at home, watch the game on TV, and spend your $37 on beer and women?

[Cyclopsis Joe]

Yankee fans have been there, and now we have the opportunity to celebrate because we have an owner who's willing to spend to improve his team. Sorry buddy.

May I jump in? No? Too bad.

That's what bothers me most..you guys sound like a recording when it comes to something like this: "Well..we had to survive all those years we sucked."

No, you rooted for the Mets all those years.

[Waffles]

That's what bothers me most..you guys sound like a recording when it comes to something like this: "Well..we had to survive all those years we sucked."

No, you rooted for the Mets all those years.

You're right; we're all a bunch of bandwaggoning whores.

If we don't win this year, you better believe we're all gonna jump ship, because we're fickle frontrunners. Get used to seeing 56,000 empty seats at Yankee Stadium, because that's what happen when the Yankees lose. We'll be like rats on the Titanic on that mofo!

[bosox]

That's what bothers me most..you guys sound like a recording when it comes to something like this: "Well..we had to survive all those years we sucked."

No, you rooted for the Mets all those years.

You're right; we're all a bunch of bandwaggoning whores.

If we don't win this year, you better believe we're all gonna jump ship, because we're fickle frontrunners. Get used to seeing 56,000 empty seats at Yankee Stadium, because that's what happen when the Yankees lose. We'll be like rats on the Titanic on that mofo!

God, when you get a Red Sox fan to stick up for the Yankees, you know that your wrong. How mnay bandwagoner fans are Yankee fans? Like 5% at the most. Remember, they go for the team that won it all. So all these new Red Sox fans are the bandwagonners. All the Yankee fans I know have been yankee fans their whole life, and if they haven't, they at least know most of the history of the Yankees, and have followed them even though they haven't won since 2000.

They make the right moves. Many teams do that. The Red Sox ahve made the right moves, and no ones complaining about them.

They got Randy Johnson, which improves a pitching staff that wasn't very good. They signed Tino Martinez, since they haven't been too solid at 1B. They aren't just getting the best players for the hell of it. They are trying to fill holes that they had last year.

[jkrdevil]

...the 94 strike did not kill the Expos. The Expos attendance sucked for the 10 years before 94. Had the strike not happened the Expos might be in Montreal for 2 extra years. Also, the Expos had a few competitive season since 94. Remember in 2002 they finished in second place in the NL East. And in 2003 they finished above .500. Considering the low revenue they had because fans didn't show up they put good teams on the field. Maybe they would have made the playoffs and won the World Series a few times had the fans gone to the games. They would have had the money to get the final piece. That's why the Pos are in Washington because no one went to the games and montrealers only have themseleves to blame for them being in Washington now.

But if you knew your team had no chance at even making the playoffs, would you spend your hard-earned money to go watch them?

But in the Expos case in 96 they finished 2 games out of the Wild Card and only drew about 1.5 million people. They had a chance to make the playoffs that year and still had low attendence. Or how about before the strike in 93 when they finished 3 games out of the division, still that year (a year in which mlb set attendence records) only drew about 1.5 million people. In years in which the Expos were good they couldn't break the 2 million people milestone.

[Shmee]

mod edit: c'mon - you guys can scrap about this issue all you want, but let's not resort to name-calling, especially tasteless name-calling.

[bosox]

mod edit: c'mon - you guys can scrap about this issue all you want, but let's not resort to name-calling, especially tasteless name-calling.

Aw. Poopies. You edited.

I keed I keed. (Especially since I'm sticking up for the Yanks here)

[Shmee]

mod edit: c'mon - you guys can scrap about this issue all you want, but let's not resort to name-calling, especially tasteless name-calling.

I guess I saw that one coming as soon as I posted it, but I thought that one was pretty funny.