Florida Panthers Moving to Winnipeg?

[Stampman]

Puvkguy does some great work...

[Survival79]

Canada has lost the Nordiques, the Jets, the Grizzlies, and the Expos. At one point there were 8 NHL teams, 2 NBA teams, and 2 MLB teams in Canada. That means approximately 1/3 of the professional franchises in Canada have relocated. It's really quite simple...

[Brian in Boston]

Yes, it is quite simple. The state of the Canadian economy places professional sports franchises in the country at a distinct disadvantage when said teams must compete economically with clubs based in the United States. Which is why a shift of its currently Sunbelt-based franchises to Canadian cities isn't the answer for the NHL's woes.

Oh, and as much as several of us would like to see it - myself included - Hartford doesn't have a snowball's chance in Hell of returning to the NHL.

[Lee.]

the Canadian economy is...well it is what it is.

...and it is,despite Greenspan's bleatings, stronger than the US economy is, at the moment.

Either way, just keep in mind that I'm the sole Winnipegger not looking for the NHL to return to town anytime soon.

[BBTV]

the Canadian economy is...well it is what it is.

...and it is,despite Greenspan's bleatings, stronger than the US economy is, at the moment.

Either way, just keep in mind that I'm the sole Winnipegger not looking for the NHL to return to town anytime soon.

Agreed, the Canadian dollar has had a nice run vs. the US dollar (at least through year-end which is all I've read up on.)

But it must be frustrating for Canadian clubs to not really know how much their expenses are going to be due to the exchange rates. If they paid their salaries in Canadian dollars it wouldn't be an issue, but while they'd be looking OK now, it's not smart to take that exchange risk on a 40+million payroll.

[Stampman]

the Canadian economy is...well it is what it is.

...and it is,despite Greenspan's bleatings, stronger than the US economy is, at the moment.

Either way, just keep in mind that I'm the sole Winnipegger not looking for the NHL to return to town anytime soon.

Agreed, the Canadian dollar has had a nice run vs. the US dollar (at least through year-end which is all I've read up on.)

But it must be frustrating for Canadian clubs to not really know how much their expenses are going to be due to the exchange rates. If they paid their salaries in Canadian dollars it wouldn't be an issue, but while they'd be looking OK now, it's not smart to take that exchange risk on a 40+million payroll.

Once upon a time they did pay in Canadian dollars--then players asked to be padi in US dollars, and eventually that became the status quo...

[Dante_X]

there's no chance to see a team in Quebec City in the near future, the building is too old to host a pro team.

[BBTV]

the Canadian economy is...well it is what it is.

...and it is,despite Greenspan's bleatings, stronger than the US economy is, at the moment.

Either way, just keep in mind that I'm the sole Winnipegger not looking for the NHL to return to town anytime soon.

Agreed, the Canadian dollar has had a nice run vs. the US dollar (at least through year-end which is all I've read up on.)

But it must be frustrating for Canadian clubs to not really know how much their expenses are going to be due to the exchange rates. If they paid their salaries in Canadian dollars it wouldn't be an issue, but while they'd be looking OK now, it's not smart to take that exchange risk on a 40+million payroll.

Once upon a time they did pay in Canadian dollars--then players asked to be padi in US dollars, and eventually that became the status quo...

Can teams buy insurance against dollar value fluctuations? It seems that if such a thing were available, that the cost of it should come out of the (soon to come) revenue sharing pool since it would benefit the league as a whole to have stability with the Canadian (ien?) franchises.

[Gary]

There should be no NHL teams in Carolina, Nashville, Tampa Bay, Florida, Atlanta, Phoenix, or Anaheim IMO. I could also argue against San Jose, or Washington I guess.

Sorry to break it to you but Phoenix is staying.

[Cashcleaner]

there's no chance to see a team in Quebec City in the near future, the building is too old to host a pro team.

The age of the arean is no issue. How long did the Leafs play in the original Maple Leaf Gardens? What about the Canadiens in the Forum, or Boston in the Boston Gardens?

How old the building is has nothing to do with anything. All that matters are a sufficient number of seats and adequete facilities. Also, if given the opportunity of getting a team back, I'm sure the city would jump at the chance of renovating the old arena if needed anyway.

[JamesCraven]

I agree. The older houses (The Gahdin, Chicago Stadium, Spectrum, the St. Louis Arena, Le Forum, MLG) had more character. Today, everyone plays in an lookalike, multi-superboxes arena that remind many of the imfamous ashtray, cookie-cutter stadiums of the late 1960's/1970's.

[Gordie]

I don't know what the Panthers' fanbase is like in Miami, but I think the Lightning get a lot of support from transplanted northerners. Florida might move, but I'd be surprised to see Tampa Bay go anywhere.

As much as I hate to see ICS say that the Sens should move, I know that he's just pointing out how ridiculous it is to suggest that teams should be moved because of their location on a map. There are a lot of strong teams in southern cities, and I think the ECHL is helping to build a bigger fanbase for hockey in a lot of non-traditional markets.

The only NHL franchises that I've heard might relocate are Carolina and Pittsburgh, and I'd expect them to move to other cities in the U.S.

The Canadian economy, strongly linked as it is to the American economy, really isn't a factor in determining the viability of Canadian clubs. What can make it difficult for Canadian teams to compete against U.S. teams is the differing view Canadian and American governments tend to take on taxing sports teams and venues. Canadian municipal and provincial governments are reluctant to grant tax breaks to millionaire team owners or donate public funds to help them build stadiums or arenas. American legislators are more likely to grant those breaks, because they tend to focus more on the jobs created by, and the resulting economic benefits of, having big league sports in their cities. The resulting difference in debt loads is what can make Canadian franchises more difficult to operate, financially.

The real factor that determines the viability of an NHL franchise, Canadian or American, is fan support. The NHL doesn't have income from a big broadcast deal, so teams rely relatively heavily on ticket sales for revenue. No matter what their location, a team playing in front of a lot of empty seats is going to have a hard time turning a profit.

[CubsFanBudMan]

I don't know what the Panthers' fanbase is like in Miami, but I think the Lightning get a lot of support from transplanted northerners. Florida might move, but I'd be surprised to see Tampa Bay go anywhere.

FRom my experience, the transplanted northerners only showed up to see their 'old' hometown teams. Bruins, Flyers and Rangers games were packed with the road team fans, and I went to a couple of Canadiens games and I've never seen so many Quebec license plates in one place (well, until I visited Toronto).

I think it takes time to build a fanbase in expansion cities, especially ones that are mostly transplants like Florida. The kids growing up there will more likely be Panthers and Marlins fans (and two World Series titles go a long way, I'd think), but it'll take a while before these teams can compete with established teams in a historic sense. Winning probably speeds that up.

[GeorgesL]

I can't really see hockey thriving in Florida. It's just not a hockey territory. Winnipeg and Quebec City are.

As much as I really want the NHL to return to Quebec City, to revive the rivalry between them and the Habs (which I could never decide who to cheer for), let's see where the labour negotiations take the league.

If you ask me, there's just too many teams out there. They should get the league back to the 80's version, when they had 21-22 teams.

[Mac the Knife]

The only NHL franchises that I've heard might relocate are Carolina and Pittsburgh, and I'd expect them to move to other cities in the U.S.

I gotta ask, because I keep hearing it yet no one can substantiate it -- who the hell is saying that the Carolina Hurricanes are moving anywhere?

Guys, they've got an ironclad arena lease, insisted upon by the municipalities involved in the deal. Karmanos, unlike when the team was in Hartford, hasn't said anything about moving - in fact, he's been adamant that the team isn't going anywhere.

I could buy someone saying they might be contracted, but where is the source of all this information saying the Hurricanes are going to be relocated? Show me one source, team or media, please!

[Pat]

There should be no NHL teams in Carolina, Nashville, Tampa Bay, Florida, Atlanta, Phoenix, or Anaheim IMO. I could also argue against San Jose, or Washington I guess.

Sorry to break it to you but Phoenix is staying.

dont be sorry. I know that, im saying Id wish theyd move or contract

[Gordie]

The only NHL franchises that I've heard might relocate are Carolina and Pittsburgh, and I'd expect them to move to other cities in the U.S.

I gotta ask, because I keep hearing it yet no one can substantiate it -- who the hell is saying that the Carolina Hurricanes are moving anywhere?

Guys, they've got an ironclad arena lease, insisted upon by the municipalities involved in the deal. Karmanos, unlike when the team was in Hartford, hasn't said anything about moving - in fact, he's been adamant that the team isn't going anywhere.

I could buy someone saying they might be contracted, but where is the source of all this information saying the Hurricanes are going to be relocated? Show me one source, team or media, please!

Sorry Mac, you're right, that's just speculation.

The Hurricanes owner and NHL commisioner have both stated that their confident about the NHL's future in Raleigh.

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/6251666/

The rumour is out there though, and it's based on the question of how long Carolina can suffer low attendance and high financial losses. There seems to be only three options:

1. The Hurricanes will build a fanbase and become a financially sound organization.

2. The owner, Mr. Karmanos, will continually accept big financial losses.

3. Mr. Karmanos will sell the team and it will be moved, or he will move it himself.

I guess there are enough people who think the third option is possible that it's been a topic of discussion. That doesn't mean that the first two options aren't realistic either.

I hear the speculation whenever I watch a Hurricanes home game on TV. (Generally a Sens or Leafs road game vs. Carolina)

First thing the broadcasters will talk about is the attendance in Raleigh and how even though the announced attendance will be in the neighbourhood of 10,000 - 12,000, it looks like less than 5,000 people in the seats. That inevitably leads to the topic of how much money the 'Canes lose annually, and the question of how NHL hockey is going to survive in Carolina. The conclusion generally ends up being that NHL owners are too greedy to contract a team or two, so the team will eventually end up in another market somewhere in the midwest or Pacific northwest.

I know it sucks to hear unfounded rumours about your team moving. A couple of years back, we heard a lot talk about the Sens relocating, too, despite the owner's protests to the contrary. Hopefully, the situation in Raleigh will turn out well, like it did here.

[Gary]

There should be no NHL teams in Carolina, Nashville, Tampa Bay, Florida, Atlanta, Phoenix, or Anaheim IMO. I could also argue against San Jose, or Washington I guess.

Sorry to break it to you but Phoenix is staying.

dont be sorry. I know that, im saying Id wish theyd move or contract

neither will happen, they just moved into a beautiful arena, and they are not in serious jeopardy to close there doors. That and we have a growing fan base. Mostly from the northerners that have moved here in the past few years. So it looks like you may be stuck with Phoenix

[jkrdevil]

Guys, No team is moving to Canada. If any team moves it's going to go to another US city. Moving teams from the US to Canada would severly hurt the leagues chances of ever getting a big tv contract again. If you think the league has givin up hope on that think again. And it's not like the team is going to have this huge revenue in Winnipeg or Quebec City. In the end it would be about the same as a sun-belt team and if both make the same amount the league will want the team in the US for the possiblity of a tv contract.

[randyc]

i can't see why they would put a team back in Quebec City. they failed before because they couldn't get the attendance. right?