Racial Double Standard In Sports

[NewYawkSeahawk]

I dont know if I agree with your whole "terrorism" analogy...

Those mofos hate and want to kill EVERYBODY, including themselves if need be.

[NewYawkSeahawk]

OK let me put itthis way, how many times have you turned on a TV and seen a sit com, a commercial, or a movie where a guy is talking and the response is "its because im black, right?" or something like that.

That is kind of the problem...

It seems so common for people to use race as an excuse a fair percentage of the time, that it makes it hard for people to objectively look at someone who has a legitimate case of being the victim of racism

It's kind of like the boy who cried wolf... when you constantly keep hearing the same thing over and over again, you have to question it and say "Well how many times was this really the case, and how many times was it just an excuse?'

I don't deny that there are people out there who have been victims of racism... but I would probably say it is 50% / 50% iof real cases vs. just an excuse... and unfortunately it is that 50% of excuses that has made it hard for myself and many others to listen and give credit to the people with the real complaints..

Everytime a Sharpton type comes on TV... it's like.."Oh great here we go again"

Everyone remembers Rodney King, but how many remember Reginald Denny?

Rodney King deserved to have his @$$ beat.... not for being black, but for being hopped up on drugs and evading the police trying to fight them...

[Mings]

OK let me put itthis way, how many times have you turned on a TV and seen a sit com, a commercial, or a movie where a guy is talking and the response is "its because im black, right?" or something like that.

That is kind of the problem...

It seems so common for people to use race as an excuse a fair percentage of the time, that it makes it hard for people to objectively look at someone who has a legitimate case of being the victim of racism

It's kind of like the boy who cried wolf... when you constantly keep hearing the same thing over and over again, you have to question it and say "Well how many times was this really the case, and how many times was it just an excuse?'

I don't deny that there are people out there who have been victims of racism... but I would probably say it is 50% / 50% iof real cases vs. just an excuse... and unfortunately it is that 50% of excuses that has made it hard for myself and many others to listen and give credit to the people with the real complaints..

Everytime a Sharpton type comes on TV... it's like.."Oh great here we go again"

Everyone remembers Rodney King, but how many remember Reginald Denny?

Rodney King deserved to have his @$$ beat.... not for being black, but for being hopped up on drugs and evading the police trying to fight them...

well i wouldnt say rodney king deserved his ass beat, but given the situation, the police did what they were trained to do.

just like in cincinnati when the kid looked like he was going for a gun, so the officer shot him. that in turn sparked riots, basically because of over reaction by pretty much everyone involved. yeah they had a right to be mad cause it turned out the kid didn't have a gun, but the police officer was merely doing what he was trained to do.

i would say it is getting better though. last year or two years ago, another man died in a battle with cincinnati police. he was on drugs and was a very big guy. they ended up tazering him and taking around 4 police officers to get him down, and a couple did use night sticks. however they were doing what they were trained to do. this time, there was nowhere near the reaction that was present the previous time, as most saw it as an unfortunate accident, which most (i wont say all cause there is proof out there) deaths that happen in police custody are accidents.

a lot of the problem deals with the media. they just always look for the bad things. report on some good stuff for once.

[rmackman]

LOOK A HORSE!

I just did that to break up the conversation a little. Hehe.

[bhambruiser]

dang there are so many things I want to jump in on. i can't remember them all.

Here in Birmingham, we had some of the most recognized civil rights happenings during the 1960s. Firehoses, Bull Connor, attack dogs, 16th St. Baptist Church Bombing etc etc.

Today there is the Civil Rights Institute in Birmingham, which I have visited. When you leave a place like, as a white person, you feel extremely bad for black people during that time. Many people feel so bad, they feel the need to apologize to black people for it. As has been stated, I don't feel that need because it was something that happened a long time ago, that I had nothing to do with. I don't go around to Brittish people looking for an apology for my ancestors in Scotland and all the atrocities that were done to them.

In a perfect world we could all learn from those events and live in racial harmony, buy the world a coke and all that jazz, but it is unfortunate that we don't live in a perfect world and people continue to cling to the past and use it as an excuse for the present.

To switch gears a bit. I find it interesting about the question "would you want to be black?" I think that there are equal advantages either way you look at it. If i am a young black person in school I have the United Negro College Fund as an opportunity to go to college. Could you imagine if there was a United Caucasian College Fund? The outcry would be unbelieveable. Equal Opportunity now means that if there are two people applying for a job and one is white and has a little bit better qualifications and one is black and is a little less qualified, it is likely that the black person will get the job, because some companies have minority "quotas" that they have to fill in each department. this happened all the time at one of my old jobs. Is it fair? NO. If it were the other way around (which, granted, it was for many years) there would be a huge problem.

So am I suggesting stopping all of these things? No. I would just like to see a little of what was originally the plan- EQUALITY. Because the idea of equality today is catering to blacks over whites, as to not hurt their feelings because of what "WE" did to their ancestors. And that is complete BS. I will NOT take responsibility for slavery and I refuse to listen to people browbeat me as a White person for standing up for that point of view.

by the way...nice horse

[NewYawkSeahawk]

well i wouldnt say rodney king deserved his ass beat, but given the situation, the police did what they were trained to do.

just like in cincinnati when the kid looked like he was going for a gun, so the officer shot him. that in turn sparked riots, basically because of over reaction by pretty much everyone involved. yeah they had a right to be mad cause it turned out the kid didn't have a gun, but the police officer was merely doing what he was trained to do.

i would say it is getting better though. last year or two years ago, another man died in a battle with cincinnati police. he was on drugs and was a very big guy. they ended up tazering him and taking around 4 police officers to get him down, and a couple did use night sticks. however they were doing what they were trained to do. this time, there was nowhere near the reaction that was present the previous time, as most saw it as an unfortunate accident, which most (i wont say all cause there is proof out there) deaths that happen in police custody are accidents.

a lot of the problem deals with the media. they just always look for the bad things. report on some good stuff for once.

Yeah I remember reading about that guy in Cincinatti..

I definitely agree with what you just said..

I have alot of friends who are police, either NYPD or one of the local counties, and they all always say how the public is so critical after the fact and make stupid statements like "Oh, why didnt they try and shoot the gun out of his hand, or shoot him in the leg"... and what they dont realize... is what you said... The police are TRAINED to do something a certain way... They are trained to aim their guns at the center of body mass.. the chest area.... if they try and be some sharp shooter going for a hand or a leg, they have a smaller more mobile target and risks a stray bullet killing some inoocent bystander. And they are TRAINED to not stop shooting til the threat is neutralized.

Back when Amadou Dialou was shot, they made a big deal out of him being shot 41 times... Well, I dont remember the specifics, but figure 4 cops in the hallway, each of them firing till the threat is neutralized... about 10 shots a piece sounds right... Cops dont fire one shot, wait to see if the target has stopped and than decided to fire again... they just keep shooting till the threat is stopped.

Every now and then my friends tell me how they gave some seminar to the media public and put them in some virtual training scenario and told them to shoot at a target when they felt threatened... well they always empty the clip in seconds.

I definitely think this topic has been filled with some good dialogue and different opinions... I welcome that... certainly glad to see this time we were able to focus on the issue and not the example.

[chakfu]

It's a funny thing with quotas and affirmative action. Critics always say that there was a white applicant and a black applicant, and that they *had* to hire the black applicant to fill their quota, and it's not fair.....

Yeah, it's not really fair - but they must have had horrendous hiring practices in the first place if they need to hire every black person they can to meet their quota! If they were fair in the first place, they would have been at the quota already, and there would be no need for the preferences!

I don't see how hate crimes can be viewed as anything but terrorism. If you kill somebody or vandalize their house because they are black, it's the same as killing people because they are American and are perceived as a threat to radical Islam...

Granted, most (all, for that matter) domestic hate crimes aren't on the scale of the Oklahoma City bombing or 9/11...but if a Muslim extremist sniper shot someone just because they're american, it's basically the same thing if a white kills a black because of their race...it's all essentially terrorism.

btw you mentioned Reginald Denny's beating - I think that is also a good example of a hate crime.

[Phil]

I think the acceptance of the double standard comes primarily from guilt and fear.

Here's where I disagree.

I think the acceptance of the double standard comes more as a concession in order to keep things peaceful.

Racism is such a volatile issue, that as society we would rather give the benefit of the doubt to the minority than risk them being discriminated against. Just like when you're passing a semi on the highway, you give them a little more room than you would an Elantra, because subconsciously (or even consciously) the risks associated with being near a semi are far greater than an Elantra.

Do double standards exist? Most likely, yes. Are they widespread? I would disagree. Are they pleasant? No. Is it worth it in order to ensure the safety and security of minorities and minority-majority relations? In my humble opinion, absolutely.

[DarthMan]

Kinda OT, but we have a school play this year called say it loud im black and im proud

They say that whites can play roles, but they have openings at "slaveholder"

However I disagree with what NYS is saying. I just wish they did a more racially inclusive play.

[TFoA]

OK, last comment on that site I swear, but here is their headline about Florida State Football:

Rix Yanked by Black Supremacist Coach as Goal of All Black Team Near

(Bobby Bowden is a Black Supremacist Coach?)

LOL

Besides the obvious, that has to be the most ludicrous web page I've ever stumbled upon. It even rivals the cat thing on that maze. Ludicrous.

[NewYawkSeahawk]

I think the acceptance of the double standard comes primarily from guilt and fear.

Here's where I disagree.

I think the acceptance of the double standard comes more as a concession in order to keep things peaceful.

Racism is such a volatile issue, that as society we would rather give the benefit of the doubt to the minority than risk them being discriminated against. Just like when you're passing a semi on the highway, you give them a little more room than you would an Elantra, because subconsciously (or even consciously) the risks associated with being near a semi are far greater than an Elantra.

Do double standards exist? Most likely, yes. Are they widespread? I would disagree. Are they pleasant? No. Is it worth it in order to ensure the safety and security of minorities and minority-majority relations? In my humble opinion, absolutely.

I agree with this...

But at what point to people say "Enough is enough" and stop trying to pacify the situation just to keep things civil and say "Hey.... now we are the ones that need to claim legit racism"?

You know what phrase I have always found offensive... "Reverse Racism"

That kind of implies that only white people can be racist, and now perhaps are the victims of the reversal of that...

I don't think there is such a thing as reverse racism... I think racism is racism regardless of where it's coming from.

[jkrdevil]

Can I say just one thing since flying the confederate was brought up in this. Your stupid if you fly the confederate flag. Not only is it a symbol of racism and slavery it is also a symbol of Treason against the United States of America. The were rebels who took up arms against the US and lost, that makes them traitors. The south lost the war, plain and simple. You don't see the Soviet Flag being flown in Russia now, same thing. The south lost and since the confederate flag was the symbol of their fight. The flag should not be flown as it is a symbol of treason.

[winters in buffalo]

Time for me to jump in on this one. I'll try to address as much as was covered up to this point:

First, I'm glad to see the discussion was revived while keeping the thread far more civilized than its predecessor. It IS possible to address a hot topic without become heated.

Second, that site NYS posted was loaded with racist undertones and conspiracy theories. Anytime you have to say, "I'm not a racist, but...", chances are you're either not explaining your point the right way, or you're a racist.

I can understand what NYS is arguing here., but I suppose a better question would have been, "why is it that it's acceptable when minorities dominate in a merit-based system, but if they don't, then the system needs to be corrected?".

I think it's great that black people dominate the NFL and NBA, and that so many doctors are Asian and Indian. At the same time, I really don't care if there aren't enough Hispanic accountants.

By all means, break down barriers so that everyone has an opportunity to compete fairly, but not everyting needs to be forced into a perfect representation.

[winters in buffalo]

Can I say just one thing since flying the confederate was brought up in this. Your stupid if you fly the confederate flag. Not only is it a symbol of racism and slavery it is also a symbol of Treason against the United States of America. The were rebels who took up arms against the US and lost, that makes them traitors. The south lost the war, plain and simple. You don't see the Soviet Flag being flown in Russia now, same thing. The south lost and since the confederate flag was the symbol of their fight. The flag should not be flown as it is a symbol of treason.

As stated above, racism aside, the Confederate flag is a symbol of treason. I'm not saying that it should be outlawed, but it also should be OK to shoot someone who is flying it, under the assumption that they are enemies of the state.

[winghaz]

Anyone else notice that that horse is mostly white?

[winghaz]

OK, I couldn't resist being silly about the horse.

To be serious for a moment, we're not going to solve this race issue in this chat session. But the dialogue has been generally good, and it's nice to see so many opinions.

Now, let me say something about the University of North Dakota Fighting Sioux:

Hardly anyone in North Dakota calls them the Fighting Sioux. They are called the Sioux. Nobody says they're going to see a Fighting Sioux hockey game, it's a Sioux hockey game.

Does that make a difference in how American Indians are perceived? I don't know. I do know that American Indians have much bigger problems than sports nicknames, unless those nicknames are totally biased against the American Indians.

A while back, some American Indians suggested, tongue-in-cheek, to change the nickname to the Fighting Norwegians and see how the Norwegians would like it. Hey, as a full-blooded Norsky, I would like it.

[CaolinaJoe]

Does anyone view the Union Jack as a symbol of racism and slavery? They are the ones that introduced slavery here.

Is the American flag a symbol of treason in the UK?

Is the flag of Quebec viewed as an "I want to be a traitor" flag in Canada?

I think most read too much into what others do. I know this is a slippery slope I tread, but I do not believe everyone with a Confederate flag is a racist. The Civli War was not ALL about slavery. Slavery was a secondary issue to Lincoln.

I live in the heart of the redneck nation. I see plenty of Confederate flags. The other day I pulled up next to redneck Mercedes, a jacked up pick-up with mud all over and a confederate flag sticker. Much to my surprise the driver was jammimg away to Nelly, making my car shake also(GOD I HATE THAT). To most around here the Confederate flag is more like like flipping the bird to the North. It's more about a regional and cultural rivalry, than lamenting about lost slaves.

I can't buy the treason arguement. The country was less than 100 years old at that time. There may have still been some living from before it was a country. It was also the generation in charge that had been brought up on the fresh stories of the Revolution, by those who had fought for freedom from a distant leader.

I also like when I see things like "hillbilly slave owners". Hillbillies didn't own slaves, they were simply a step above. Wealthy southerners and transplanted northerners owned slaves. By percentage a small amount of the south owned slaves. Also, by percentage very few who fought for the south, fought to preserve slavery. But, as in every war, the poor fight for what the rich want and most of the time don't truly understand what they fight for.

Some fly the flag to honor fallen family members who fought for the south. I see nothing wrong in honoring your ancestry. Just because you are proud of what a family member has done, doesn't mean you necessarily support the cause he did it for. I'm sure everyone in Germany hasn't disowned every one who fought honorably for the German army and nothing to do with or knowledge of the camps. Did Hitler's family disown him? Probably. But should Lance Corporal Muellers family disown him cause he fought in France and never heard of Auschwitz till all was said and done?

Do organizations like the KKK and other white Supremacist groups use the flag? Yes. But all we do is give them a forum when we go after the flag. Because as with most things, it's not the person who may have a legitimate reason for the flag that gets the media coverage. If we simply ignore it, it will go away. I'm talking about the flag, not the actions of some who bastardize it's meaning.

Not to mention, as the ACLU will tell you, the First Amendmant covers all speech. Even that speech with most vehemently disagree with. It's funny how in one thread we talk so admirably of protecting the voice of the minority and in another we talk about shooting those who speak for a minority opinion.

On topic, double standards exist. So what. Double standards exist everywhere, for all colors. Just most aren't mandated by laws and are far more subtle. Does a thread start when an inferior kiss-ass of the same color gets promotion over a more qualified quiet person?

The cream usually, almost always rises to the top. You may have to wait a little longer at certain places, but it WILL happen. Just do your job the best you can, and don't whine about everyone else, and the powers that be will notice.

[CC97]

Is the flag of Quebec viewed as an "I want to be a traitor" flag in Canada?

do want an honest answer? It's not like that here, but in Quebec the Canadian flag isn't seen as often as one would expect -- they don't even fly it at montreal city hall... at least there was a time they didnt

[FiddySicks]

Is the flag of Quebec viewed as an "I want to be a traitor" flag in Canada?

do want an honest answer? It's not like that here, but in Quebec the Canadian flag isn't seen as often as one would expect -- they don't even fly it at montreal city hall... at least there was a time they didnt

anyone been to Key west? Its the same there. the flag they fly is the flag of the republic of Conch, not the USA flag

[bhambruiser]

Can I say just one thing since flying the confederate was brought up in this. Your stupid if you fly the confederate flag. Not only is it a symbol of racism and slavery it is also a symbol of Treason against the United States of America. The were rebels who took up arms against the US and lost, that makes them traitors. The south lost the war, plain and simple. You don't see the Soviet Flag being flown in Russia now, same thing. The south lost and since the confederate flag was the symbol of their fight. The flag should not be flown as it is a symbol of treason.

a) The flag of the Soviet Union is not flown anymore because it isn't the same country as it was then. It has been broken up into several countries.

B ) Making a blanket statement like "your stupid if you..." fill in the blank is not wise

c) See my comments here about the Confederate flag and the Civil War

d) I don't think anyone is arguing that the south didn't win the war. this is an obvious point.

e) Nothing is as black and white as you make it out to be.