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Maris for HOF?


gashouser27

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To me all of this stuff just elevates how great some players were whose records have been eclisped by the "Steroid Era".

I think Maris and Dawson and Rice should get more consideration now.

And how awesome is Clemens to have pitched so well for so long to so many juiced hitters???

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in my opionion he is the greatest player not in the hall

No.

There are a ton of Deadball era players that deserve to be in the HoF but aren't, mainly because they just simply couldn't stand up to the backlog of legends in the early years of the Hall of Fame.

Of course, they'll never get in, because very few people have heard of them:

Pete Browning (.341 career BA! Also notable for being the first Player to use a Louisville Slugger)

Sherry Magee (Lead league in RBIs 4 times, XBH 3 times, slugging percentage twice. )

Bobby Matthews (297 career wins)

Paul Hines (.302 career BA)

Harry Stovey (Held the career HR record from 1885-86, then from 1889-94)

Don't get me wrong, Maris definitely belongs. But I think the fact that some Dead-Ball stars still need to get in.

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I don't think the Steroid numbers has cost Maris a spot in the Hall of Fame. He retired 20 years before the "Steroid Era". Meaning he was already on the Veterans Ballot when the big numbers started to be put up.

It's the Andre Dawson and Don Mattingly players that get hurt by the Steroid Numbers. Mattingly retired in 95, because he doesn't have the numbers as guys who were on the juice he probably won't get in the Hall.

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Here's the thing...

Steroids weren't against the rules of the game. You can go back through the years and find rampent use of performance enchanceing drugs or just performance enhancing techniques that are against the rules today. The drugs have changed, but the pushing the boundries of the rules has not changed.

There are people that threw spitballs in the hall of fame. Ty Cobb sharpened his cleats, was a racist, he's in the hall of fame. Baseball is not some honorable sport. Steroids were a dark era and a bad thing, but the people that did steroids broke no rule of the sport. If you hold them accountable, y ou should hold the players taht did cocaine, or amphedimines, or threw spitballs, stole signs, or whatever is now illegal accountable.

Maris should be in. But not based on steroids. Based on his achievements as a baseball player.

I have mixed feelings on allowing steroid players into the hall of fame. I mean, Mark McGwire and Sammy Sosa are two guys I think about on this. Both of them, had steroids never been an issue would probably be first or second ballot hall of famers, if not for their careers, at least for the home run race. But now, how do you put them into the hall of fame with the thought of steriods? How do you hold them out of the hall without proof? It was a great moment in baseball history, no matter what. Is that enough to over look that they did something that became illegal a few years later? I don't know.

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in my opionion he is the greatest player not in the hall

No.

There are a ton of Deadball era players that deserve to be in the HoF but aren't, mainly because they just simply couldn't stand up to the backlog of legends in the early years of the Hall of Fame.

Of course, they'll never get in, because very few people have heard of them:

Pete Browning (.341 career BA! Also notable for being the first Player to use a Louisville Slugger)

Sherry Magee (Lead league in RBIs 4 times, XBH 3 times, slugging percentage twice. )

Bobby Matthews (297 career wins)

Paul Hines (.302 career BA)

Harry Stovey (Held the career HR record from 1885-86, then from 1889-94)

Don't get me wrong, Maris definitely belongs. But I think the fact that some Dead-Ball stars still need to get in.

while i can appreciate a good arguement...i said in my opionion. doesnt mean your or I are wrong, but its my opioniom B)

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I think you do judge players by the era they played in. I think it is a shame Maris didn't get in when he was alive. I remember when Big Mac was making the run and how much attention Maris got then. The fact that people have passed him in recent years but probably had help should be a reminder of how special that season was when he did it.

I think being in the Hall just isn't a number thing but how dominant you are in era. Which is why Gibson and Koufax who don't have all the numbers are special.

I think guys like Dawson and Rice and Mattingly are special in their era too. I think a lot of people look at 500 Home runs as some kind of distinction and it just isn't for me, it is just polluted.

I agree there were Gaylord Perrys and Ty Cobbs and others who stretched rules in the past but I think all that stuff was taken into consideration.

The Steroid stuff will definitely be considered. Unfortunately I think it will effect the whole era when people look at numbers and affect people like Griffey Jr. , Thomas , etc.

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in my opionion he is the greatest player not in the hall

Mmmhhh... I disagree: Shoeless Jackson and Pete Rose are the greatest player not in the HOF.

But it doesn't meaning that Maris shouldn't be in the HOF.

I support the HOF induction for:

- Roger Maris

- "Shoeless" Jackson

- William "Dummy" Hoy

- Jim Rice

- Andre Dawson

- Donnie Mattingly

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Maris doesn't belong in the Hall of Fame.

He played 11 seasons (1463 games). He hit .260 with 275 HRs and 851 RBIs. He played in 41 World Series games, batting .217 with 6 HRs and 18 RBIs.

Please take off your New York blinders and explain why those numbers belong in the HOF?

One single season record, regarldess of how revered, does not merit induction in the Hall.

As for the "at least he was clean" argument, show me where his drug test results are - then I MIGHT believe that an athlete wasn't taking something (like speed).

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I'm not a NY kisser. I'm a Red Sox fan and I support Roger Maris for HOF (think that his 61st HR was against my club).

Well, his offensive numbers aren't too good but in the HOF were players with the same situation like Rabbit Maranville.

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First, being famous for something great should be enough. Holding one of baseball's most sacred records for longer than the Babe is nothing to be scoffed at. People talk about juiced players and juiced balls, yet Maris' record stood for 37 years! Watching the 1998 home run chase I was bummed when McGwire hit 62. Because I knew that now Maris wasn't going to get it.

I think a big reason why he's not in is because he didn't get along well with the media. Who, by the way, votes for Hall inductees. They hide behind the fact of his career numbers aren't that great. Chew on this.

Back-to-back MVPs: only 11 players have done that Maris is the only eligible one not in the hall. Greats like Hank Aaron, Johnny Bench, Ty Cobb never achieved this feat.

Lifetime 5.39 HR Percentage: better than Joe D, Johhny Bench, and Yogi Berra.

Lifetime .983 Fielding Average: better than Hank Aaron, Mantle, Ted Williams. Oh, and he has a gold glove. Much love to those who can weild the glove!

His .260 BA: Not good enough for ya? Beter than Harmon Killebrew and identical to Bill Mazeroski. Reletively close to Reggie Jackson, Pee Wee Reese, and other greats.

7 All-Star Games

--------------

The Baseball Hall of Fame is given the following criteria for election:

"Voting shall be based upon the individual's record, ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character and contribution to the game."

Tell me that the Home Run Record, and his all-around great play isn't enough? Please.

Information comes from http://pw2.netcom.com/~houdini/maris.html. Check out the site for more.

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Comparing the batting average of a position that is supposed to be offensive based (OF-1B) to an infielder is a horrible example for trying to support someone's case for the Hall. Infielders are supposed to play defense, and their offensive numbers are allowed to be lower than an "offensive" position.

Defensive numbers for an OF-1B, for the same reason, are immaterial because those positions are "easy" to play.

Back-to-back MVPs, much like single season records, are no indication of greatness. It's only an indication of single season (or back-to-back season) greatness. BTW, Dale Murphy did it, he's not in.

HR percentage? Show me where that is "tracked", and how it is a measure of greatness. I'll bet Dave Kingman had a pretty good HR percentage.

How many RBIs and HRs did he have when compared to Killebrew and Jackson? You lose that comparison, in a BIG way.

In short -- his stats (the first criterion in the determination of a player's belonging in the Hall) are why he's not in.

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I think someone who is recognized by his last name after 45 years must have made a significant impact on the game

No one is suggesting Denny McLain should make it to the hall because he won 30 games.

The last couple of years demonstrates that there is more to greatness than statistics.

The cool thing about the hall is that it is intangible, there is no yardstick

But "character" and "contribution to the game" are good reasons for leaving out Palmeiro and Bonds and Rose and McGwire and Sosa and Canseco , etc.

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I like all that epiphanic said. Specially that one:

The Baseball Hall of Fame is given the following criteria for election:

"Voting shall be based upon the individual's record, ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character and contribution to the game."

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I'm not sure if you guys are aware of this (I'm sure you probably are, you all seem to know a lot about what you're talking about anyway), but there's a limited eligibility for those who can and can't make it into the Hall of Fame. It's a complicated process, so I link you to this below:

Players are currently inducted into the Hall of Fame through election by either the Baseball Writers Association of America (or BBWAA), or the Veterans Committee, which is now composed of living Hall of Famers and recipients of the two major awards. Five years after retirement, any player with 10 years of major league experience, who passes a screening committee (which removes from consideration players of clearly lesser qualification) is eligible to be elected by BBWAA members with 10 years' membership or more. From a final ballot typically including 25-40 candidates, each writer may vote for up to 10 players; until the late 1950s, voters were advised to cast votes for the maximum 10 candidates. Any player named on 75% or more of all ballots cast is elected. A player who is named on fewer than 5% of ballots is dropped from future elections. In some instances, the screening committee had restored their names to later ballots, but in the mid-1990s, dropped players were made permanently ineligible for Hall of Fame consideration, even by the Veterans Committee. A 2001 change in the election procedures restored the eligibility of these dropped players; while their names will not appear on future BBWAA ballots, they may be considered by the Veterans Committee.

Under special circumstances, certain players may be deemed eligible for induction even though they have not met all requirements. This has resulted in only two inductions, when Lou Gehrig was specially elected shortly after his retirement in 1939, and when Addie Joss was elected in 1978 despite only playing in nine seasons. Additionally, if an otherwise eligible player dies before their fifth year of retirement, then that player may be placed on the ballot at the first election at least six months after their death. Roberto Clemente, who died in a plane crash in 1972, is the only current Hall of Fame member for whom the 5-year minimum was waived.

If a player fails to be elected by the BBWAA within 20 years of their retirement from active play, he may be selected by the Veterans Committee, which now votes every two years. The Veterans Committee also votes every fourth year on candidates from among managers, umpires, executives or builders. Negro Leagues players may again be considered at some point; the Hall is currently conducting a study on African American players between the late 19th century and the integration of the major leagues in 1947.

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I can't believe it's been said here that there is a New York bias for Maris.

New York? Heck, the Big Apple hated Maris. And I knew that long before "61*" came out.

I live in Maris' home state, North Dakota. I moved to Fargo, Maris' hometown, a year ago. Now, if I were to say Maris belonged in the Hall of Fame, you could rightly claim a North Dakota bias or a Fargo bias. But a New York bias? Come on.

But I do believe Maris belongs in the Hall, bias or not.

There's another player I'd like to see in the Hall. Former Twins great Tony Oliva had a lifetime .304 batting average (over 15 seasons), was an eight-time all-star, won the AL batting title three times, led the league in hits five times and led the league in doubles four times. So why, with his stats, isn't he in the Hall of Fame?

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First, being famous for something great should be enough. Holding one of baseball's most sacred records for longer than the Babe is nothing to be scoffed at. People talk about juiced players and juiced balls, yet Maris' record stood for 37 years! Watching the 1998 home run chase I was bummed when McGwire hit 62. Because I knew that now Maris wasn't going to get it.

I think a big reason why he's not in is because he didn't get along well with the media. Who, by the way, votes for Hall inductees. They hide behind the fact of his career numbers aren't that great. Chew on this.

Back-to-back MVPs: only 11 players have done that Maris is the only eligible one not in the hall. Greats like Hank Aaron, Johnny Bench, Ty Cobb never achieved this feat.

Lifetime 5.39 HR Percentage: better than Joe D, Johhny Bench, and Yogi Berra.

Lifetime .983 Fielding Average: better than Hank Aaron, Mantle, Ted Williams. Oh, and he has a gold glove. Much love to those who can weild the glove!

His .260 BA: Not good enough for ya? Beter than Harmon Killebrew and identical to Bill Mazeroski. Reletively close to Reggie Jackson, Pee Wee Reese, and other greats.

7 All-Star Games

--------------

The Baseball Hall of Fame is given the following criteria for election:

"Voting shall be based upon the individual's record, ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character and contribution to the game."

Tell me that the Home Run Record, and his all-around great play isn't enough? Please.

Information comes from http://pw2.netcom.com/~houdini/maris.html. Check out the site for more.

Craig Biggio recently set the record for career HBP. Should that one stat be enough for Biggio to get in?

Barry Bonds set the record for most walks in one season. Should that one stat be enough for Bonds to get in?

Speaking of Bonds, he hasn't exactly been a media darling himself. Will these writers not vote him in solely because of his relationship with the media?

MVP's are nice, but they reward great seasons, and not necessarily great careers. As someone said earlier, Dale Murphy had back-to-back MVP seasons, but he fell off the ballot. As big a Braves fan I am, and I would love to see Murphy get inducted, I don't think he did enough to get in. Perhaps if he had played on a better team and have the same stats, he might get more recognition. Not to mention he's probably one of the most classy guys ever to have played.

Hitting 61 HR's is nice and all, but it simply can't be reason enough to vote Maris in. Especially considering that he hit well under .300, had under 300 career HR's (which would be 21.4 HR's per season, excluding 1961), and played just one year over the minimum amount required to get in the Hall.

Here's something to ponder: Since a lot of people are viewing baseball as a league of juiced-up players, could it be said that Maris used steroids in 1961? I mean, he did have one breakout year, and his stats look so funny, when compared season to season.....

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