Phillies retired numbers

[VitaminD]

Last year, in the wake of Tug McGraw's passing, there was a popular movement to get Tug's #45 retired by the Phillies (and I guess by the Mets; I don't know about the Mets' policies). But the Phillies maintained that they do not retire a player's number unless they've been elected to the Hall of Fame.

If this is a new policy, then so be it. I know they often use it to justify not retiring Pete Rose's #14 (Jim Bunning's #14 is retired.) when there is a push for it. But Richie Ashburn's #1 was retired in August 1979 (I went to my first game that season, and his #1 and Robin Roberts's #36 were hung on the black tarp above the outfield wall then), but he did not enter the Hall of Fame until 1995.

I know this is a somewhat local question, but I'm betting that somebody here can help.

Thanks in advance...

[NJTank]

Yea it is dumb certain teams have team heroes taht would never be HOFer but should be honoredd none the less.

[Frylock]

Yea it is dumb certain teams have team heroes taht would never be HOFer but should be honoredd none the less.

Case in point, the Portland Trail Blazers:

#13 Larry Steele

#15 Dave Twardzik

#36 Lloyd Neal

#45 Geoff Petrie

All decent players, all had a huge part in Blazers history, all local heroes at the time. Defenitely not HOF material.

[CC97]

The leafs have an even odder standard... your number can only be retired by the leafs if you died or suffered a career ending injury as a member of the team (which means gilmour's 93 can be retired).

The leafs have only retired 2 numbers.

And then there's my Jays, who just simply do not retire numbers. Twenty-nine seasons, 3 hall of famers, 2 world championships, 0 retired numbers.

[Swiss]

No retired numbers yet from the Jays?

[BBTV]

I heard about that HOF thing years ago. Bunning was a fairly recent HOF'er IIRC, and that's why they retired his. I don't even remember if there was a "Jim Bunning" night or anything really special for it.

Monty,Giles, and the "silent scumbags" didn't take over the team until after Ashburn's jersey retirement (I think that the Carpenters still ran the team back then) so that may explain that.

There's been breif "callings" for Del Ennis' number to be retired (15 I think?), as well as Rose (14), McGraw (45), and Ken Howell (43). Just kidding about Howell.

I have no problem with the HOF policy, but then they should have a wall-of-fame or some other way of honoring the players who were significant to the franchise's history but maybe not HOF material. They do have the Phillies HOF, but I couldn't even tell you anything about that, other than Bob Boone was just inducted. This "wall of fame" would have to be a higher level than the P-HOF, but not quite the Baseball HOF.

[VitaminD]

I heard about that HOF thing years ago. Bunning was a fairly recent HOF'er IIRC, and that's why they retired his. I don't even remember if there was a "Jim Bunning" night or anything really special for it.

Bunning's #14 went up on the last Opening Day at the Vet, along with Chuck Klein's "P" and Grover Cleveland Alexander's "P".

Kenny Howell's #43 can't go up until Nick Leyva's #16 does. Without Levya, the Ken Howell Era becomes something less than what it was. I remember as a little kid watching Nick Leyva coach 3rd for the Cards, and I thought, "Damn, that guy would make such a... a... mediocre manager for a team, why are we not after this guy?!"

For the record, Del Ennis also wore #14. Bunning was asked if Ennis's #14 should be co-retired with his own #14, and Bunning thought that was a fine idea. He made no comment about the Phillies retiring #14 for anybody else who might have worn it at a key time in team history, not that anyone comes to mind...

The answer about the Carpenters makes so much sense, I am embarrassed I didn't think of it. They did a lot of good for baseball in Philadelphia, and all that's really left is the Carpenter Cup. But this has to be a post-Carpenters ruling. Good thought.

[BBTV]

I heard about that HOF thing years ago. Bunning was a fairly recent HOF'er IIRC, and that's why they retired his. I don't even remember if there was a "Jim Bunning" night or anything really special for it.

Bunning's #14 went up on the last Opening Day at the Vet, along with Chuck Klein's "P" and Grover Cleveland Alexander's "P".

Kenny Howell's #43 can't go up until Nick Leyva's #16 does. Without Levya, the Ken Howell Era becomes something less than what it was. I remember as a little kid watching Nick Leyva coach 3rd for the Cards, and I thought, "Damn, that guy would make such a... a... mediocre manager for a team, why are we not after this guy?!"

For the record, Del Ennis also wore #14. Bunning was asked if Ennis's #14 should be co-retired with his own #14, and Bunning thought that was a fine idea. He made no comment about the Phillies retiring #14 for anybody else who might have worn it at a key time in team history, not that anyone comes to mind...

The answer about the Carpenters makes so much sense, I am embarrassed I didn't think of it. They did a lot of good for baseball in Philadelphia, and all that's really left is the Carpenter Cup. But this has to be a post-Carpenters ruling. Good thought.

I think Bunning's (and the blank ones for Klein, G.C.A.) were up for a couple years before the final Vet season. Not sure exactly when, though. It sucks that there's no representation of Klein and GCA in C.B.P.

Nick Leyva is acautlly on the list to have his number retired, but he is behind Manager Lee Elia (3), Hitting Coach Dennis Menke(14), and Phormer Phenom Bruce Ruffin (47).

Edit: the Bunning, Klein, and GCA retirements were done on 8/6/2001.

[Neon_Matrix]

The leafs have an even odder standard... your number can only be retired by the leafs if you died or suffered a career ending injury as a member of the team (which means gilmour's 93 can be retired).

The leafs have only retired 2 numbers.

And then there's my Jays, who just simply do not retire numbers. Twenty-nine seasons, 3 hall of famers, 2 world championships, 0 retired numbers.

Well the Leafs make no sense. I know #15 is retired in honor of Bill Barilko...and then there is Gretzky's 99, but who elses was retired? I know no one uses 9 or 8 anymore...but people still use Sittler's and Mahovalich's 27 and Armstrongs 10. I'm so confused...

The Jays have so many honored numbers...but I didnt realize none of them were retired...

[bulldogbarks55]

Neon Matrix- Bill Barilko wore #5, not #15. He died in a plane crash in '51. Ace Bailey's #6 is the only other Leaf number retired. He suffered a serious injury after he was beaten by Eddie Shore. I know Ron Ellis later wore #6 for the Blue & White but that was on Bailey's insistance and with his blessing.

As for the Jays only honoring numbers. If that's what they want to do- hey, it's their ball club. But whenever I see #1 on the field I think of Tony Fernandez, not who's wearing the number that day. Ditto for #37 (Stieb), #11 (Bell), #9 (Olerud) and #18 (Clancy).

Maybe the Jays don't want to end up like the Yankees or Celtics who've between them have retired the most numbers.

[VandyDelphia Mike]

I heard about that HOF thing years ago. Bunning was a fairly recent HOF'er IIRC, and that's why they retired his. I don't even remember if there was a "Jim Bunning" night or anything really special for it.

Bunning's #14 went up on the last Opening Day at the Vet, along with Chuck Klein's "P" and Grover Cleveland Alexander's "P".

Kenny Howell's #43 can't go up until Nick Leyva's #16 does. Without Levya, the Ken Howell Era becomes something less than what it was. I remember as a little kid watching Nick Leyva coach 3rd for the Cards, and I thought, "Damn, that guy would make such a... a... mediocre manager for a team, why are we not after this guy?!"

For the record, Del Ennis also wore #14. Bunning was asked if Ennis's #14 should be co-retired with his own #14, and Bunning thought that was a fine idea. He made no comment about the Phillies retiring #14 for anybody else who might have worn it at a key time in team history, not that anyone comes to mind...

The answer about the Carpenters makes so much sense, I am embarrassed I didn't think of it. They did a lot of good for baseball in Philadelphia, and all that's really left is the Carpenter Cup. But this has to be a post-Carpenters ruling. Good thought.

I think Bunning's (and the blank ones for Klein, G.C.A.) were up for a couple years before the final Vet season. Not sure exactly when, though. It sucks that there's no representation of Klein and GCA in C.B.P.

Nick Leyva is acautlly on the list to have his number retired, but he is behind Manager Lee Elia (3), Hitting Coach Dennis Menke(14), and Phormer Phenom Bruce Ruffin (47).

Edit: the Bunning, Klein, and GCA retirements were done on 8/6/2001.

This is an enjoyable thread. Maybe not to many, but definitely to this guy.

It's good to know that Jeff Stone was able to slide on #14. That's who I think of when I think of Phillies wearing 14, I don't know about the rest of you ...

Also worth considering:

#30 Steve (I learned to switch-hit from playing Wiffle Ball) Jeltz

#48 "Starvin'" Marvin Freeman

#23 Kevin Jordan (just because it would be funny to see a JORDAN 23 somewhere immortalized in CBP)

#61 Wayne Gomes (Closer of the Future!)

[BBTV]

I heard about that HOF thing years ago. Bunning was a fairly recent HOF'er IIRC, and that's why they retired his. I don't even remember if there was a "Jim Bunning" night or anything really special for it.

Bunning's #14 went up on the last Opening Day at the Vet, along with Chuck Klein's "P" and Grover Cleveland Alexander's "P".

Kenny Howell's #43 can't go up until Nick Leyva's #16 does. Without Levya, the Ken Howell Era becomes something less than what it was. I remember as a little kid watching Nick Leyva coach 3rd for the Cards, and I thought, "Damn, that guy would make such a... a... mediocre manager for a team, why are we not after this guy?!"

For the record, Del Ennis also wore #14. Bunning was asked if Ennis's #14 should be co-retired with his own #14, and Bunning thought that was a fine idea. He made no comment about the Phillies retiring #14 for anybody else who might have worn it at a key time in team history, not that anyone comes to mind...

The answer about the Carpenters makes so much sense, I am embarrassed I didn't think of it. They did a lot of good for baseball in Philadelphia, and all that's really left is the Carpenter Cup. But this has to be a post-Carpenters ruling. Good thought.

I think Bunning's (and the blank ones for Klein, G.C.A.) were up for a couple years before the final Vet season. Not sure exactly when, though. It sucks that there's no representation of Klein and GCA in C.B.P.

Nick Leyva is acautlly on the list to have his number retired, but he is behind Manager Lee Elia (3), Hitting Coach Dennis Menke(14), and Phormer Phenom Bruce Ruffin (47).

Edit: the Bunning, Klein, and GCA retirements were done on 8/6/2001.

This is an enjoyable thread. Maybe not to many, but definitely to this guy.

It's good to know that Jeff Stone was able to slide on #14. That's who I think of when I think of Phillies wearing 14, I don't know about the rest of you ...

Also worth considering:

#30 Steve (I learned to switch-hit from playing Wiffle Ball) Jeltz

#48 "Starvin'" Marvin Freeman

#23 Kevin Jordan (just because it would be funny to see a JORDAN 23 somewhere immortalized in CBP)

#61 Wayne Gomes (Closer of the Future!)

I've had just about enough of this Steve Jeltz bashing.

If this continues, I'll be forced to report you to the mod's.

Take out your frustrations on someone more deserving, like Rick Schu or even Joe Cowley.

[rmackman]

I thought the Jays had numbers of players hanging on banners in the ballpark?

[CC97]

I thought the Jays had numbers of players hanging on banners in the ballpark?

They do, but those players are simply members of the "level of excellence", the numbers are not retired...

In fact all of those numbers (except for Tom Cheek's 4306, and #42 of course) are currently being worn by Blue Jays...

Orlando Hudson currently wears Tony Fernandez's #1

Eric Hinske currently wears George Bell's #11

Shea Hillenbrand currently wears Joe Carter's #29

Scott Downs currently wears Dave Stieb's #37

Miguel Batista currently wears Cito Gaston's #43

You can view their actual retired numbers here... heh

http://toronto.bluejays.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb...red_numbers.jsp

[CubsFanBudMan]

It's good to know that Jeff Stone was able to slide on #14.  That's who I think of when I think of Phillies wearing 14, I don't know about the rest of you ...

Ah, Jeff Stone... first autograph I ever got as a kid at Wrigley Field. Thought he was the next Vince Coleman.

As far as retired numbers, it always frustrated me that the Cubs refused to retire Ron Santo's No. 10 for so long, presumably because he was not in the Hall of Fame. That and being a lifelong Cub (or close to it) seem to be the requirements.

But the Cubs organization would push so hard for him to be in the Hall, yet the team hadn't even given him their highest honor. I e-mailed more than a few times about that, and they finally fixed it at the last game of 2003. Now Sandberg's No. 23 will be retired Aug. 28, and I think that will be it for some time.

If Fergie Jenkins didn't get his 31 retired, then Greg Maddux probably won't either. I'm not sure Sosa's 21 ever will be retired either. All three spent a lot of time on other teams.

I'm content with 14, 26, 10 and 23.

[Andy]

Maybe I'm just crazy, but I'm not a big fan of the whole number-retiring business anyway. I understand that some people associate the number a player wore with his legacy, but come on. If someone on the Chicago Bulls wants to wear #23, let him wear it. It's not going to make anyone forget about MJ.

If anything, it just mars athlete's legacies when numbers get retired then unretired for certain situations, like when a modern player absolutely has to have the number. It's like, "Well, he was good, but not that good."

[VitaminD]

I've had just about enough of this Steve Jeltz bashing.

If this continues, I'll be forced to report you to the mod's.

Take out your frustrations on someone more deserving, like Rick Schu or even Joe Cowley.

Hey, mine's personal and goes back to 1987. 1 of only 2 athletes who couldn't be bothered for an autograph.

I'd like to think my lifetime of bad wishes played a decisive role in keeping Jeltz out of the Hall, and thus making #30 wearable for the next Jose Offerman to blow through South Philly.

Rick Schu ruled. Too bad he had to follow Mike Schmidt at 3rd. At least he made a smooth transition for the Charlie Hayes Era. Umm... yeah.

[BBTV]

I've had just about enough of this Steve Jeltz bashing.

If this continues, I'll be forced to report you to the mod's.

Take out your frustrations on someone more deserving, like Rick Schu or even Joe Cowley.

Hey, mine's personal and goes back to 1987. 1 of only 2 athletes who couldn't be bothered for an autograph.

I'd like to think my lifetime of bad wishes played a decisive role in keeping Jeltz out of the Hall, and thus making #30 wearable for the next Jose Offerman to blow through South Philly.

Rick Schu ruled. Too bad he had to follow Mike Schmidt at 3rd. At least he made a smooth transition for the Charlie Hayes Era. Umm... yeah.

I think you are thinking about Chris James. He was the immediate successor to Schmidt at third, and was part of the deal that brought us Charlie Hayes and the <sarcasm>greatest #45 ever </sarcasm> Terry "No Hit" Mulholland.

Terry did have the best pick-off move I've ever seen, though.

[VitaminD]

I've had just about enough of this Steve Jeltz bashing.

If this continues, I'll be forced to report you to the mod's.

Take out your frustrations on someone more deserving, like Rick Schu or even Joe Cowley.

Hey, mine's personal and goes back to 1987. 1 of only 2 athletes who couldn't be bothered for an autograph.

I'd like to think my lifetime of bad wishes played a decisive role in keeping Jeltz out of the Hall, and thus making #30 wearable for the next Jose Offerman to blow through South Philly.

Rick Schu ruled. Too bad he had to follow Mike Schmidt at 3rd. At least he made a smooth transition for the Charlie Hayes Era. Umm... yeah.

I think you are thinking about Chris James. He was the immediate successor to Schmidt at third, and was part of the deal that brought us Charlie Hayes and the <sarcasm>greatest #45 ever </sarcasm> Terry "No Hit" Mulholland.

Terry did have the best pick-off move I've ever seen, though.

We're going to need a Choice C.

PROBLEM 1: Rick Schu went to the Orioles after the 1987 season.

PROBLEM 2: Mike Schmidt's last game was halfway through the early season West Coast trip - 28 May 1989. The next series after Schmidt retired was in San Diego. After that series, Chris James was traded to the Padres for Randy Ready and the Krukker. At most, the Chris James Era lasted 3 games total, and I don't remember if he played all 3 of the games in the Padres series at 3rd. Charlie Hayes came with Mulholland 2 weeks later.

I can't say for sure, but the 2 weeks between Schmidt and Hayes were probably Jeltzie ( !) and Randy Ready.

Rick Schu still rules. Killer porn-stache. Like Raffy Palmeiro without the 'roids and Viagra.

[BBTV]

I've had just about enough of this Steve Jeltz bashing.

If this continues, I'll be forced to report you to the mod's.

Take out your frustrations on someone more deserving, like Rick Schu or even Joe Cowley.

Hey, mine's personal and goes back to 1987. 1 of only 2 athletes who couldn't be bothered for an autograph.

I'd like to think my lifetime of bad wishes played a decisive role in keeping Jeltz out of the Hall, and thus making #30 wearable for the next Jose Offerman to blow through South Philly.

Rick Schu ruled. Too bad he had to follow Mike Schmidt at 3rd. At least he made a smooth transition for the Charlie Hayes Era. Umm... yeah.

I think you are thinking about Chris James. He was the immediate successor to Schmidt at third, and was part of the deal that brought us Charlie Hayes and the <sarcasm>greatest #45 ever </sarcasm> Terry "No Hit" Mulholland.

Terry did have the best pick-off move I've ever seen, though.

We're going to need a Choice C.

PROBLEM 1: Rick Schu went to the Orioles after the 1987 season.

PROBLEM 2: Mike Schmidt's last game was halfway through the early season West Coast trip - 28 May 1989. The next series after Schmidt retired was in San Diego. After that series, Chris James was traded to the Padres for Randy Ready and the Krukker. At most, the Chris James Era lasted 3 games total, and I don't remember if he played all 3 of the games in the Padres series at 3rd. Charlie Hayes came with Mulholland 2 weeks later.

I can't say for sure, but the 2 weeks between Schmidt and Hayes were probably Jeltzie ( !) and Randy Ready.

Rick Schu still rules. Killer porn-stache. Like Raffy Palmeiro without the 'roids and Viagra.

I'll give you credit, VD. You are making me do some research.

» June 3, 1989: The Padres trade John Kruk and Randy Ready to the Phils for Chris James. Kruk had a sub-par .241 last season, after hitting .309 and .313 the previous two. He'll rebound to .300 this season.

So you are correct, the Chris James era lasted from May 29 - June 2.

The Randy Ready era began on June 3.

6/3 Box Score

I remember James being traded for Kruk, but for some reason I thought it was later in the season. Charlie Hayes came on June 18, and Ready was demoted to "Tomas Perez" status shortly thereafter.